A good guy with a gun, indeed.

[Moon]

If I had a right to own C-4

And we were seeing 2-3 Oklahoma City bombings a week,

Would you conclude that the right to own explosives was killing people?

Or, would you insist on a narrow interpretation to protect your right to C-4?

The right to own C-4 wouldn’t be killing anyone in that scenario, but the willingness of people to commit mass murder. The really hard question to answer would be why is that happening? Especially if C-4 had been available for many decades before but there had been virtually no Oklahoma City bombings in all that time.

 

[VanceMack]

If I had a right to own C-4

And we were seeing 2-3 Oklahoma City bombings a week,

Would you conclude that the right to own explosives was killing people?

Or, would you insist on a narrow interpretation to protect your right to C-4?

Not sure you realize just how badly you kicked your own ass with that argument.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yeah, we’ll your rights are killing people

Yep, freedom is the root cause of crime. That’s why locking up convicts (removal of their freedom to roam freely among us) is so effective while they remain locked up.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Yes, the mass shootings targeting innocents are the bad ones. Nobody gets too upset about the mass shootings targeting the guilty.

Sad but true. But I would also like to see those diminished as well. But I thought we were talking about the specific case of mass shootings targeting innocent people.

Are we stepping back and expanding? Fine by me.

 

[Galactic Spin]

You seem to believe you are going to be able to develop this mystical power to foresee when people are going to go to the zoo...so...yeah...kinda.

Not sure where you picked up that delusion. We have all the resources of the strongest country on earth available.. and you think I am saying it's up to me? That's kind of bizarre, the more I think abou it.

 

[VanceMack]

Not sure where you picked up that delusion. We have all the resources of the strongest country on earth available.. and you think I am saying it's up to me? That's kind of bizarre, the more I think abou it.

All the resources in the world arent going to help you develop a bunch of Minority Report precogs. Whats bizarre is you seem to think it can happen.

 

[Winston]

Not sure you realize just how badly you kicked your own ass with that argument.

my argument makes gun nuts look bad

 

[VanceMack]

my argument makes gun nuts look bad

No...your argument makes anti-gunners look...well...stupid. Think about it and see if you can understand why.

 

[Winston]

No...your argument makes anti-gunners look...well...stupid. Think about it and see if you can understand why.

Not really

 

[Rucker61]

Sad but true. But I would also like to see those diminished as well. But I thought we were talking about the specific case of mass shootings targeting innocent people.

Are we stepping back and expanding? Fine by me.

You wrote "My goal is reduction of mass shootings, especially ones targeting innocents", clearly implying "all mass shootings". Shall we focus on just the called out subset? How do you wish to define "mass shooting" for the discussion?

Mass Shootings in the United States

There is no standard definition of what constitutes a mass shooting. Media outlets, academic researchers, and law enforcement agencies frequently use different definitions when discussing mass shootings, leading to different assessments of the frequency with which mass shootings occur and about...

www.rand.org

 

[Winston]

The right to own C-4 wouldn’t be killing anyone in that scenario, but the willingness of people to commit mass murder. The really hard question to answer would be why is that happening? Especially if C-4 had been available for many decades before but there had been virtually no Oklahoma City bombings in all that time.

Laws or lack of laws absolutely kill people

 

[VanceMack]

Not really

I didnt think so.

Your comment is as inane as the people that bleat on about gun violence and then target ARs because the .223 is a particularly deadly bullet.

Just like saying "Oh my heck! OK City bombing! We have to ban C4!!!"

Now that I have spelled it out for you...tell me why your position is so stupid.

 

[Moon]

Laws or lack of laws absolutely kill people

There are already laws against killing or harming people.

 

[Winston]

There are already laws against killing or harming people.

But, very few against the manufacture and sale of guns

 

[Rucker61]

Laws or lack of laws absolutely kill people

What do gun free zones do?

 

[Rucker61]

But, very few against the manufacture and sale of guns

Is that your goal?

 

[Moon]

But, very few against the manufacture and sale of guns

There are quite a few regarding the sale of guns. Have you ever bought a gun before? Regardless, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s still illegal to murder someone, no matter the method used.

 

[multivita-man]

Are you referring to FFLs, lawful private sellers or criminals selling guns to other criminals?

Any or all of the above.

 

[Oozlefinch]

And in January, that number will increase to 25. That is when the permit requirement in Alabama expires and it will join the ranks of "Constitutional Carry States". And somebody can check my math, but it seems that will be half the country at that point.

Oh, and I need to make a correction to that statement, because I made a mistake.

The actual count of the states that have such laws now is not 24, it is 25. That means that in January when Alabama becomes number 26, over half of the country will be "Constitutional Carry" states.

You know, if people really believe in "Democracy", then having over half of the states allowing that should mean something.

 

[Winston]

I didnt think so.

Your comment is as inane as the people that bleat on about gun violence and then target ARs because the .223 is a particularly deadly bullet.

Just like saying "Oh my heck! OK City bombing! We have to ban C4!!!"

Now that I have spelled it out for you...tell me why your position is so stupid.

Is explosives control working?

 

[Galactic Spin]

All the resources in the world arent going to help you develop a bunch of Minority Report precogs

Well thank goodness I have no use for that weird fantasy.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Shall we focus on just the called out subset?

We were, but we don't have to, like I said. I was indeed focusing on targeting of innocents. When asked about all of them, I offered up "more severe penalties for straw purchases" as an idea.

We can walk and chew gum.

 

[Oozlefinch]

But, very few against the manufacture and sale of guns

Oh really, have you ever bought a gun?

Well, to start with once you provide legal ID and other requirements as law may require (like a DD-214 or gun safety course completion), you then have the ATF 4473 form. And at the bottom are a series of questions that a person must give a yes or no answer to. Like if the person is buying the gun for another person, if they are a felon, if they are a fugitive, if they use drugs, if they have ever been found to be mentally impaired, if they have a restraining order, ever convicted of domestic violence, and the list just goes on and on. 13 questions in all, and an incorrect entry into the form is in itself a crime.

But here is the amazing things, almost nobody is ever prosecuted for that. But that has nothing to do with the laws, the law is already there. Failure to prosecute is on the DA, not the law itself. Just as a felon with a gun will often have the charge reduced or dismissed by the DA, especially in states like California. And no, that is not a joke. In San Francisco, 69% of felony gun crimes are dismissed before they even go to trial. 45% of them are not even filed at all. Of all the people arrested for felony level gun crimes in San Francisco, only 24% were convicted.

This is how well the laws we already have work, the District Attorney's are not even prosecuting half of the ones they get already.

The DA’s office apparently did not record the specific county jail sentences for many cases in its data dashboard. For the convictions where the DA provided specific county jail sentencing information, roughly half of the sentences agreed to were eight days or less, and some were as low as one or two days. The DA’s data, along with court records and information from DataSF, tell a chilling tale of gang members, drug dealers, and multiple violent repeat offenders sometimes serving just a short time in county jail, released on probation, or sent to diversion programs.

Boudin says his charging rates are higher than any of his predecessors, but for gun felonies he files charges just 55% of the time. Of those cases, the DA’s office discharged 45% (meaning no charges were ever filed) and they dismissed 24% after filing charges, for a total of 69%. If you count felony gun cases resolved through diversion programs, that total becomes 76%.

Over 75% of felony firearms cases dismissed, discharged, or diverted under SFDA Chesa Boudin

Last November, San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin tweeted that he was suing three ghost gun manufacturers because the guns are untraceable and a growing crisis throughout California and the nation.

susanreynolds.substack.com

And this is all to common in California, one of the main reasons I left that state. Seeing multiple time violent felons getting a slap on the wrist and not being sentenced to 25 years as the law states has caused most of the state to simply give up.

And it does get worse.

At just 25, Jamisi Calloway has a long and violent record. On March 8, 2021, Calloway was arrested for possession of an assault weapon, being a felon with a firearm, and carrying a concealed weapon. He was sent to diversion, which he “successfully” completed on June 29. Despite whatever efforts were made to rehabilitate him in diversion, less than six months later, on Nov. 19, 2021, Calloway was arrested in the viral Louis Vuitton smash-and-grab rampage. This time, he was charged him with possession of a firearm with a prior felony, carrying a loaded firearm, carrying a concealed firearm, carrying a concealed firearm in a vehicle, and resisting arrest. Calloway was arrested on a warrant March 9, 2022, but according to the San Francisco Superior Court calendar, no hearings were scheduled between the end of Dec. and that March arrest, and he’s currently out of custody.

Now just think about that. A convicted felon is arrested in March 2021 for possessing an assault rifle (which is illegal in California, another law broken), a concealed weapon (that is at least 3 felony gun laws now violated), and he was sent to "Diversion". In other words, classes to tell him he was a bad boy. But he did not learn, because after he was arrested in November of that year he was once again arrested for having a loaded concealed firearm in his vehicle. And he was not even held but released.

You all can pass a million laws. If the DA does not prosecute those people for violating them, you have accomplished nothing but to harm and infringe on those that actually do follow the laws.

 

[Galactic Spin]

Oh really, have you ever bought a gun?

Well, to start with once you provide legal ID and other requirements as law may require (like a DD-214 or gun safety course completion), you then have the ATF 4473 form. And at the bottom are a series of questions that a person must give a yes or no answer to. Like if the person is buying the gun for another person, if they are a felon, if they are a fugitive, if they use drugs, if they have ever been found to be mentally impaired, if they have a restraining order, ever convicted of domestic violence, and the list just goes on and on. 13 questions in all, and an incorrect entry into the form is in itself a crime.

But here is the amazing things, almost nobody is ever prosecuted for that. But that has nothing to do with the laws, the law is already there. Failure to prosecute is on the DA, not the law itself. Just as a felon with a gun will often have the charge reduced or dismissed by the DA, especially in states like California. And no, that is not a joke. In San Francisco, 69% of felony gun crimes are dismissed before they even go to trial. 45% of them are not even filed at all. Of all the people arrested for felony level gun crimes in San Francisco, only 24% were convicted.

This is how well the laws we already have work, the District Attorney's are not even prosecuting half of the ones they get already.

Over 75% of felony firearms cases dismissed, discharged, or diverted under SFDA Chesa Boudin

Last November, San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin tweeted that he was suing three ghost gun manufacturers because the guns are untraceable and a growing crisis throughout California and the nation.

susanreynolds.substack.com

And this is all to common in California, one of the main reasons I left that state. Seeing multiple time violent felons getting a slap on the wrist and not being sentenced to 25 years as the law states has caused most of the state to simply give up.

And it does get worse.



Now just think about that. A convicted felon is arrested in March 2021 for possessing an assault rifle (which is illegal in California, another law broken), a concealed weapon (that is at least 3 felony gun laws now violated), and he was sent to "Diversion". In other words, classes to tell him he was a bad boy. But he did not learn, because after he was arrested in November of that year he was once again arrested for having a loaded concealed firearm in his vehicle. And he was not even held but released.

You all can pass a million laws. If the DA does not prosecute those people for violating them, you have accomplished nothing but to harm and infringe on those that actually do follow the laws.

And if the DA does, then he does.

 

[VanceMack]

Well thank goodness I have no use for that weird fantasy.

Kinda looked like you did TBH.