70% corporate tax?

[middleagedgamer]

Here's the statistic: Small businesses are preferred by the government, at least de jure (de facto, the government tends to suck the dix of corporations). The reason that small businesses are so preferred is because they create the majority of jobs in America.

Small businesses take the majority of risks in order to compete with corporations (since they can't compete with price, they have to compete via differentiation).

Corporations exist for one reason, and one reason only: Profit. That's it. Period. It's profit first, and everything else second. This has given way to the pejorative terms "Corporate America," and "the Man." If a CEO called foul on something the stockholders wanted to do to increase profits at the expense of, say, the environment, and said "No, wait, money isn't everything! We need to have ethics, too!" He's probably get ousted the next stockholder meeting. Corporations are like viruses; they exist solely to grow, and to hell with anything they hurt in the process. Corporations have no soul, no conscience.

Corporations are the employers that treat their employees like numbers. Walmart, for example, implemented a short-lived policy in August 2006 that stated that employees' hours would be selected, not by local managers who might be more familiar with the individual needs of workers, but by computers (yes, COMPUTERS) at corporate headquarters in Berryville, AR. If that isn't treating their employees like numbers (literally, ones and zeros), please tell me what is. When was the last time you heard of a Mom & Pop company doing that?

Corporations are directly responsible for almost all of the oligopolies in this nation (oligopoly: At least two suppliers, but still very few suppliers, so while consumers have options, those options are quite limited).

Granted, all corporations eventually started out as Mom & Pop stores, but after a while, they became a little too big for their britches.

Therefore, in order to get rid of the soulless money-eating machines, and encourage the job-creating small businesses to thrive, we should implement a federal corporate tax of 70%.

Industries that require a corporate size in order to perform their most basic functions would be exempt. For example, no Mom & Pop company can possibly even get their foot in the door of a telecommunications service. Same with utilities, as they have to be big in order to provide the services that they do.

Franchises would also be exempt, as they are still locally owned and operated. So, Dennys would pay the 70% tax; McDonalds wouldn't.

This would encourage most of today's corporate moneywhores to either become an S Corporation (I think of "S" standing for "Small Corporation"), or begin a franchise program, in order to encourage the corporations, and the LLCs taxed as such, to become small businesses again, therefore, increasing the likelihood that they will create more jobs, and actually treat their employees as human beings, rather than no more of a tool than the mop that the employee is wielding.

Wal-Mart can still have their profits, and can still be the biggest retailer in America, just as how McDonalds is the biggest fast food company in America; they just have to start doing franchises. Is that too much to ask?

Thoughts?

 

[cpwill]

:shrug: what an amazingly stupid idea? built on delusional precepts?

 

[middleagedgamer]

:shrug: what an amazingly stupid idea? built on delusional precepts?

I sort of expected a response like that.

Would you care to tell me, specifically, what is so delusional and stupid about wanting to localize business?

 

[rathi]

While the sociopathic tendencies of modern corporations are a problem, your solution would destroy our economy as we know it. Small businesses aren't magically better than larger ones and economies of scale are important to lower prices for most industries. The best way to deal with current corporations is to give them some damn consequences for unacceptable behavior. Revoke corporate charters, charge fines that are large enough to really hurt the bottom line, and punish the leadership at the top. We live in an era where you get paid multi-million dollar bonuses for screwing up so bad you take the nation with you, and the people responsible are still in charge and have no incentive not to do exactly the same thing again.

 

[middleagedgamer]

While the sociopathic tendencies of modern corporations are a problem, your solution would destroy our economy as we know it. Small businesses aren't magically better than larger ones and economies of scale are important to lower prices for most industries.

Actually, that conflicts with the mainstream belief by economic scholars that corporations are intoxicating to the ideal [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition]perfect competition[/ame], which can only be obtained through a series of sole proprietorships.

The best way to deal with current corporations is to give them some damn consequences for unacceptable behavior. Revoke corporate charters, charge fines that are large enough to really hurt the bottom line, and punish the leadership at the top. We live in an era where you get paid multi-million dollar bonuses for screwing up so bad you take the nation with you, and the people responsible are still in charge and have no incentive not to do exactly the same thing again.

So, you support regulation and oppose free markets, when deregulation has been proven to be beneficial?

For example, what (temporarily) solved our gasoline price crisis about three years ago? It was the deregulation of Alaska's oil reserves. In the course of about a year, after that, gasoline prices were cut in half, and then some. They went from about $4.00 a gallon in 2007, to about $1.90 a gallon in 2008.

Do you think Florida's 1987 decision to allow the carrying of concealed weapons caused their crime rate to rise? No, in fact, violent crime in Florida has decreased since that deregulation of gun control was enacted.

We do need some regulation of the economy to prevent things such as monopolies and false advertising, but too much of a good thing is bad.

 

[Kushinator]

For example, what (temporarily) solved our gasoline price crisis about three years ago? It was the deregulation of Alaska's oil reserves. In the course of about a year, after that, gasoline prices were cut in half, and then some. They went from about $4.00 a gallon in 2007, to about $1.90 a gallon in 2008.

The massive price drop in petroleum based fuels stemmed from an equally massive drop in demand. The price for a barrel of oil went from $144 to $25 in a relatively short time span.

 

[middleagedgamer]

The massive price drop in petroleum based fuels stemmed from an equally massive drop in demand. The price for a barrel of oil went from $144 to $25 in a relatively short time span.

You call yourself a Libertarian, while opposing free market policies?

What kind of Libertarian are you?

Anyway, back on topic.

Small businesses aren't magically better than larger ones

Who ever said anything about magic?

I'm talking about statistics and public policy (that public policy being the proverbial "American Dream").

economies of scale are important to lower prices for most industries.

Perfect competition - or, as close as is physically possible, thereof - is the best way to go, overall.

In fact, small prices can actually be a curse in disguise. Look at Wal-Mart. They're everyday low prices have a price - namely, unemployment. For details, watch the Jibjba video "Big Box Mart."

Wal-Mart, and other big, corporate whores are starting to make people realize that simple low prices are not everything we should consider.

Now, you advocate that we should punish corporations for wrongdoing, rather than destroy corporations, entirely. Do you have any idea how much that is going to cost, and how inefficient that will be? The EEOC, alone, has a waiting list of about a year for their investigations to commence, and they only handle employment discrimination cases in one particular state (per EEOC branch), with 70% of their cases ending in mediation!

Corporations are like roaches; you can get them, but fail to get the nest, and you're merely suppressing the problem.

Please, tell me what is so bad with encouraging C corporations to begin franchise programs, in order to keep the power local. Please, tell me!

 

[cpwill]

I sort of expected a response like that.

Would you care to tell me, specifically, what is so delusional and stupid about wanting to localize business?

Wal-Mart in it's current state saves the average poor family a good bit of cash. what you are really saying when you want to "localize business" is that you want to "hike the cost of living for poor families".

 

[cpwill]

You call yourself a Libertarian, while opposing free market policies?

What kind of Libertarian are you?

not a real one.

 

[Coronado]

Corporations exist for one reason, and one reason only: Profit.

That's why all businesses exist, whether they are big or small.

Duh.

 

[Gardener]

That's odd. I'm the president of a corporation.

My business is so small, though, I only have a half dozen employees and do less than a million dollars a year in business.

Peopel simply do not know what they are talking about if they think corporations and small business are mutually exclusive concepts.

 

[Captain America]

I agree that a larger corporation is a profit driven entity with no soul or conscience. But I also know that a lot of our nest eggs are dependant on corporate sucess. To discard them would be like cutting one's own nose off just to spite their face.

It's a double edged sword. Everyone wants the corporations to be more accountable and controllable. But regulation affects profits. People are depending on those profits so they can buy that beach home down in Clearwater when it's time to cash their chips in. But they also want their beach to be clean with no oil-slicks.

But what I DO find to be distasteful, for lack of a better word, is how corporations can avoid paying their fair share of income taxes. Again, the more taxes they pay the less in our 401K's. There's that double-edged sword again.

Having a sneaky suspicion how things work in the US, the corporations ability to skate taxes leads me to believe that someone, somewhere, most likely in the marble halls of Washington, DC, is getting a pretty hefty kickback.

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes

Study says most corporations pay no U.S. income taxes | Reuters

 

[Coronado]

People simply do not know what they are talking about if they think corporations and small business are mutually exclusive concepts.

That pretty much puts the OP to bed.

 

[ricksfolly]

Does that mean the recession never happened?

IMO, regulation of any kind doesn't work because the government inspectors are always on the outside looking in and have no way to follow what the company is actually doing.

For example, the company's books say the cost of a tool is $20,000, but the actual cost was $5000, the disparity would never be found because the government doesn't have access to that kind of information. Multiply that $15,000 by a hundred and they have an unreported windfall of $1,500,000.

ricksfolly

 

[cpwill]

That's odd. I'm the president of a corporation.

:shock:

you evil, evil man.....

you hire people?

quick! somebody punish him!

 

[Dezaad]

That's odd. I'm the president of a corporation.

My business is so small, though, I only have a half dozen employees and do less than a million dollars a year in business.

Peopel simply do not know what they are talking about if they think corporations and small business are mutually exclusive concepts.

It matters, for the sake of discussing systemic sociopathy, whether your 'corporation' is publicly traded or not. Can you please disclose what stock exchange your company is traded on, if any?

Thanks.

 

[Captain America]

I have an LLC on one of my ventures and the other is done as a sole proprieter. Other than the LLC's upfront incorporation fees, and the annual registry fees, I really can't tell much difference between the two as far as the way we do business.

 

[1984]

Small businesses don't care about profit. For them, it's all about altruism, at least, that's what I learned in Hollywood Upstairs Business School.

 

[middleagedgamer]

Wal-Mart in it's current state saves the average poor family a good bit of cash. what you are really saying when you want to "localize business" is that you want to "hike the cost of living for poor families".

I have already established how price, alone, is not everything.

Besides, if we do this, then the number of different suppliers will likely increase, due to most corporations implementing franchise programs, causing prices to drop a different way: Competition.

Think about it: Ebay has some of the best prices of just about anything you want. The pure number of sellers of a given item is inversely proportional to its average fair market price, thereby forcing ebay sellers to engage in price competition, just by nature of how easy it is for other competitors to get into the market. You have to set your prices a LOT lower if you have one hundred competitors in the area, as opposed to two competitors.

That's why all businesses exist, whether they are big or small.

Duh.

However, we can expect small businesses to also care about other things, such as ethics, a lot more than we can expect that kind of behavior out of corporateions.

That's odd. I'm the president of a corporation.

My business is so small, though, I only have a half dozen employees and do less than a million dollars a year in business.

Peopel simply do not know what they are talking about if they think corporations and small business are mutually exclusive concepts.

I have already discarded S Corporations (which, judging from your description, you can make a valid election for) would be exempt. This tax only applies to corporate level taxation, and only C Corporations, and LLCs taxed as C Corporations, would qualify.

I agree that a larger corporation is a profit driven entity with no soul or conscience. But I also know that a lot of our nest eggs are dependant on corporate sucess.

Can you name some that would not qualify for the "industry exemption" I listed, such as telecommunications and television and radio broadcasting?

regulation affects profits.

Not necessarily.

Shell gas stations are leased out on a franchise basis, therefore, qualifying to be exempt from this tax, and they are the second largest company in the world.

People are depending on those profits so they can buy that beach home down in Clearwater when it's time to cash their chips in. But they also want their beach to be clean with no oil-slicks.

If we keep the power local (whether through small business, or franchises), we can encourage natural job creation, individual profits, the American Dream, and a natural sense of ethics.

But what I DO find to be distasteful, for lack of a better word, is how corporations can avoid paying their fair share of income taxes. Again, the more taxes they pay the less in our 401K's. There's that double-edged sword again.

Again, they would still be able to get those 100% tax deductions if they became franchises.

Having a sneaky suspicion how things work in the US, the corporations ability to skate taxes leads me to believe that someone, somewhere, most likely in the marble halls of Washington, DC, is getting a pretty hefty kickback.

I understand your concern, but, unfortunately, that is merely de facto, not de jure, so we cannot do anything about that.

Does that mean the recession never happened?

IMO, regulation of any kind doesn't work because the government inspectors are always on the outside looking in and have no way to follow what the company is actually doing.

For example, the company's books say the cost of a tool is $20,000, but the actual cost was $5000, the disparity would never be found because the government doesn't have access to that kind of information. Multiply that $15,000 by a hundred and they have an unreported windfall of $1,500,000.

ricksfolly

The audit would be a lot easier to verify if the company was small, and had a lot less bureaucracy to get all the facts lost in the clutter, with.

I have an LLC on one of my ventures and the other is done as a sole proprieter. Other than the LLC's upfront incorporation fees, and the annual registry fees, I really can't tell much difference between the two as far as the way we do business.

That's because, for LLCs, there isn't. With the exception of limited liability, you can operate the company in any manner you see fit, as long as you make a valid tax election, according to how you do business.

Again, you are a small business; you do not count unless you make an election to be taxed a C Corporation.

Small businesses don't care about profit. For them, it's all about altruism, at least, that's what I learned in Hollywood Upstairs Business School.

I'll assume that to be sarcastic.

While small businesses do care about profits, to an extend, they can also be held to exercise a natural degree of self-ethics in the process.

 

[Coronado]

However, we can expect small businesses to also care about other things, such as ethics, a lot more than we can expect that kind of behavior out of corporateions.

Really? Prove it with empirical data.

 

[middleagedgamer]

Really? Prove it with empirical data.

I have yet to see YOU provide any empirical data to support YOUR claim.

 

[Coronado]

I have yet to see YOU provide any empirical data to support YOUR claim.

What, that all businesses are out to make money?

Do I really need to prove that to you?

 

[middleagedgamer]

What, that all businesses are out to make money?

Do I really need to prove that to you?

I am trying to show you how small businesses are more likely to adhere to social ethics than corporations are.

For example, when was the last time you heard of a Mom & Pop store setting worker hours using a computer database, and to hell with any personal needs the workers might have? When was the last time you heard of a small business do that?

 

[Coronado]

I am trying to show you how small businesses are more likely to adhere to social ethics than corporations are.

For example, when was the last time you heard of a Mom & Pop store setting worker hours using a computer database, and to hell with any personal needs the workers might have? When was the last time you heard of a small business do that?

Anecdotes are not good proof. What if I never heard of such a thing? Does that mean it has never happened? What if all I've heard of is large corporations being more flexible in meeting their employees' needs?

 

[middleagedgamer]

How 'bout this link, right here, that says that, while research is limited, what research we DO have shows that, on a general level, the practices of small businesses are generally more ethical than unethical.

Ethics in small business: attitudes and perceptions of owners/managers. - Academy of Entrepreneurship Journal | HighBeam Research - FREE trial

Research concerning ethics in small business is limited. This study focuses exclusively on the current state of ethics in this segment of businesses. The study was designed to investigate differences in ethical attitudes and perceptions among and between small business owners/managers within select background categories. Results indicated that respondents express attitudes that are more ethical than unethical. Also, owners/managers tended to be more alike than different regarding ethical attitudes and perceptions. However, specific ethical vignettes did result in a number of significant differences in ethical attitudes among owners/managers within various background groups.