5 Questions Nunes Memo Must Answer

[azgreg]

FBI warns it has 'grave concerns' about omissions in Nunes memo | TheHill

In a rare public statement on Wednesday, the FBI said it has "grave concerns" about a Republican-crafted memo alleging corrosive abuse of United States surveillance powers by the Justice Department that is expected to be released in the coming days.

"With regard to the House Intelligence Committee’s memorandum, the FBI was provided a limited opportunity to review this memo the day before the committee voted to release it," the bureau said.

"As expressed during our initial review, we have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo’s accuracy."

 

[iliveonramen]

What you're going with is anything you think could be seen as suggesting Trump's guilt ... but you have to ignore everything else in order to conclude that guilt.

I'm not making a determination on his guilt. We have no idea one way or the other, but I'm making the argument that from what we know, there is nothing that seems out of place with why this investigation occurred. There are A LOT of connections between Trump's staff and Russian oligarchs. By the nature of Russia, that means ties to the Kremlin. With Russian interference in the election and the ties between Russia and Trump, and things we don't know much about such as meeting between Don Jr or staff members in contact with Russian operatives, the investigation is not out of bounds. It sure doesn't look like some political conspiracy.

Keep in mind...Robert Muelller cannot even indict Trump! He would have to be impeached by Congress. This grand conspiracy rests on Meuller, life long Republican and by all things you hear pretty much on the straight and narrow playing along then a Republican Congress impeaching the President. That is one crazy convoluted conspiracy for a group of people that seem to be so damn smart they are always 3 steps ahead of Republican Congressmembers and the President of the US!

 

[iliveonramen]

Leaks? Nunes isn't leaking anything. He is publicly presenting information that he thinks the public has a need and a right to know.

Leaks...LOL!! That's what people reveal when they DON'T want anyone to know they did it.

You really shouldn't try to spin **** with me. I'll make you eat it.

There is nothing about a leak that requires it to be either anonymous or for it to be information someone doesn't want to know about. The Bush WH leaked information supporting the Iraq War. Also, not all leaks are done by anonymous sources. What is going on here is that Congress is using it's investigatory power but then releasing the information in a non-official manner. They are basically acting as a little propaganda arm of the WH.

The Republican Congress is no check on the WH, in fact it's the complete opposite.

Just because YOU don't want information to be openly made public, doesn't mean it is wrong to do so. In fact, trying to hide information about an investigation is a bad thing, in my opinion.

That's fine, hopefully you are never investigated for something and the prosecutor decides to leak things out of context that puts you in a bad light or serves their purposes.

 

[Mycroft]

There is nothing about a leak that requires it to be either anonymous or for it to be information someone doesn't want to know about. The Bush WH leaked information supporting the Iraq War. Also, not all leaks are done by anonymous sources. What is going on here is that Congress is using it's investigatory power but then releasing the information in a non-official manner. They are basically acting as a little propaganda arm of the WH.

The Republican Congress is no check on the WH, in fact it's the complete opposite.


That's fine, hopefully you are never investigated for something and the prosecutor decides to leak things out of context that puts you in a bad light or serves their purposes.

LOL!!

If it's an official presentation, it is NOT a leak. Plain and simple.

Go play your spin games with someone else...you bore me.

 

[iliveonramen]

LOL!!

If it's an official presentation, it is NOT a leak. Plain and simple.

Go play your spin games with someone else...you bore me.

:roll:
One of the most powerful institutions in the country with oversight over the executive branch is providing an "official presentation" on how the DOJ and the FBI have a conspiracy against the president. Is that before or after recess and nap time? Maybe if they found such grave things about the executive branch they should...I dunno...investigate it? And if they are investigating it...that makes releasing information like this as "leaking".

Of course it could be just a sham and Congress is pretty much throwing their role as check to the Executive branch out the window and instead providing cover for the President in an investigation.

In either case Republicans look bad. I actually agree with you that it's no a leak as I think it's the second scenario. I don't think there is any real investigation going on because the whole conspiracy is a sham in the first place to give cover for the President. So, the whole idea of it being a leak was giving Congress more credit but in reality, you win, not a leak because there's no real investigation.

 

[faithful_servant]

Well based on the superlatives used to talk about it and the amount of time Republicans in the House have taken to release this thing, of course there will be some articles. I don't see how it's an attack. Listing some things that need to be answered in order to show any sort of conspiracy is pretty logical.

No, it's a peremptory attack. It allows you to set standards based on what you want to see and nothing else. If it fails to meet any of your standards, then you get to dismiss the whole thing out of hand. What you are doing is like having a football team and setting standards for every position. Then if any one of the team fails to meet your standard, you fire them all.

 

[American]

You may believe that. I'm a foreigner, remember?

So you have nothing.

 

[American]

The "fix" would require a host of people that includes a lot of lifelong members of the FBI. I'm not sure how that is more believable than the possibility that based on the multiple people with lots of connections to Russia the FBI was able to legitimately believe there was something happening.

I'm curious...how many people need to be indicted and/or shown to have connections with Russian agents before you're like "well...even if there's no collusion I can still see why they would be deeply suspicious". From the way people on this board act, you'd think the investigation and people looking into the matter have found absolutely nothing. That this was a witch hunt and completely fabricated. That's not true at all. There is so much **** found not even including what we don't know yet that the FBI would be grossly negligent to ignore it.

People ultimately do what they are told, processes or not.

 

[iliveonramen]

No, it's a peremptory attack. It allows you to set standards based on what you want to see and nothing else. If it fails to meet any of your standards, then you get to dismiss the whole thing out of hand. What you are doing is like having a football team and setting standards for every position. Then if any one of the team fails to meet your standard, you fire them all.

I don't consider it an attack at all. I'm pretty sure everybody sets their own standards. Yours may be very low...as in whatever he says you believe. Others have a bit higher standards of what they expect when someone is trying to convince them of a multi-department conspiracy against the President.

In fact...every football team has standards for every position. That's pretty much how the world works. Bill Billichek has a criteria he uses, a baseline that must be satisfied for him to draft a player or sign a player. He's not "attacking" anyone, he has a set of standards.

 

[bubbabgone]

I'm not making a determination on his guilt. We have no idea one way or the other, but I'm making the argument that from what we know, there is nothing that seems out of place with why this investigation occurred. There are A LOT of connections between Trump's staff and Russian oligarchs. By the nature of Russia, that means ties to the Kremlin. With Russian interference in the election and the ties between Russia and Trump, and things we don't know much about such as meeting between Don Jr or staff members in contact with Russian operatives, the investigation is not out of bounds. It sure doesn't look like some political conspiracy.

Keep in mind...Robert Muelller cannot even indict Trump! He would have to be impeached by Congress. This grand conspiracy rests on Meuller, life long Republican and by all things you hear pretty much on the straight and narrow playing along then a Republican Congress impeaching the President. That is one crazy convoluted conspiracy for a group of people that seem to be so damn smart they are always 3 steps ahead of Republican Congressmembers and the President of the US!

Well ... there is that Russian dossier connection to Hillary during the election ... and that FUSION connection to the Don Jr. meeting ... and the connection of FBI employees to FUSION ... and those FBI employees Mueller had to let go from his team ... and there's Comey and Lynch and Bill.
None of that troubles you or makes you think that maybe the wrong people have been involved in this investigation and the conditions it arose from were shaky to begin with.
So far you only find possible business connections to Russia as suspicious.

 

[Mycroft]

Well ... there is that Russian dossier connection to Hillary during the election ... and that FUSION connection to the Don Jr. meeting ... and the connection of FBI employees to FUSION ... and those FBI employees Mueller had to let go from his team ... and there's Comey and Lynch and Bill.
None of that troubles you or makes you think that maybe the wrong people have been involved in this investigation and the conditions it arose from were shaky to begin with.
So far you only find possible business connections to Russia as suspicious.

Not to mention FISA 702 query abuse that was so great that the FISA court had to forbid ANYONE of using that system.

I suspect a lot of the useful idiots don't even understand what a FISA 702 query is...or how it could be abused. Rest assured, though, the court understood.

 

[iliveonramen]

People ultimately do what they are told, processes or not.

Some do and some don't. Even those that will do as told will tell others if they think it is wrong.

 

[iliveonramen]

Well ... there is that Russian dossier connection to Hillary during the election ... and that FUSION connection to the Don Jr. meeting ... and the connection of FBI employees to FUSION ... and those FBI employees Mueller had to let go from his team ... and there's Comey and Lynch and Bill.

The FBI employees released from the team concern me. They were released though and there's no indication that the person in charge, Mueller, is doing anything other than his job. I've not heard of any Fusion connections other than to the Dossier itself. I've not heard of any Fusion connections to the Don Jr meeting either.

I'm not sure if the Clinton machine has done the Democratic party many favors so I'm not a fan of everybody being connected to them...but they are huge in the party and it would be like trying to remove anyone connected to Reagan or connected to the Bush's. Reagan is connected to everyone due to his impact on the party and Bush's are connected to everyone due to their longevity in the party and the different positions held by the family.

the Clintons are both of those things...huge impact in the 90's and longevity. Also...being connected to a politician or former politician isn't illegal.

 

[Fenton]

Really? So lets say opp-research mentions a meeting with Russians. The FBI investigates and finds facts that support a meeting did take place and they based on other evidence the conversation seems to revolve around collusion with the Russian government. Are you saying that the opp-research as the basis for investigating the incident means that none of the evidence can be used to obtain a FISA warrant? I don't agree with that at all.

As for Carter Page, he had a ton of connections with Russia. In what reality is a Carter Page warrant completely out of bounds? His energy deals with Russia wouldn't/shouldn't be enough to believe he was acting for a foreign government..but to completely act like that warrant is completely baseless....where are you getting that information?

Let me help you grasp the significance of partisan oppo-research being presented as legitimate intel to obtain FISA warrants to spy on the political opposition

Do you think the GOP could have presented anti-Hillary oppo-research to Obama's DOJ ?

Do you think the Obama administration would have treated it the same way ? Used it to obtain FISA warrants to conduct covert surveillance on Hillary's campaign ?

What if some of the allegations in that oppo-research were credible and warranted further investigation ?

The idea that the Steele dossier is now a credible document worthy of FBI consideration is a joke, especially when you consider Hillary's attorney repeated denials of funding the dossier and Fusion GPS's attempt to hide their bank records from Congress.

The ONLY reason her attorney owned up to funding the document is because Fusion GPS was ordered to turn over those bank records

If using the dossier to obtain FISA warrants was justified, why was Bruce Ohr removed from both of his senior DOJ positions ?

Ohr was deputy assistant AG under Obama, 4 in line to the AG.

 

[iliveonramen]

Let me help you grasp the significance of partisan oppo-research being presented as legitimate intel to obtain FISA warrants to spy on the political opposition

Do you think the GOP could have presented anti-Hillary oppo-research to Obama's DOJ ?

Do you think the Obama administration would have treated it the same way ? Used it to obtain FISA warrants to conduct covert surveillance on Hillary's campaign ?

What if some of the allegations in that oppo-research were credible and warranted further investigation ?.

You said used in any way. I gave you an example of how it could be incorporated with other intel and used. If you have 3 sources of intel telling you there was a meeting between Don Jr and Russians and one was the Steele Dossier...than the Steel Dossier would be included among the other intel as support when you apply for the FISA warrant. It wasn't the sole reason, it wasn't even the main reason, it was one piece of many threads.

There is a place in the spectrum between the Steel Dossier having nothing to do with the investigation and the Steel Dossier being the sole basis of the investigation. Paraphrasing you...let me help you grasp the significance of nuance.

If using the dossier to obtain FISA warrants was justified, why was Bruce Ohr removed from both of his senior DOJ positions ?

Ohr was deputy assistant AG under Obama, 4 in line to the AG.

I don't know who Ohr is but I'm pretty sure he would of needed clearance from top staff in the FBI and the DOJ as well as a judge to sign off for him to get any sort of FISA warrant on a person running for President. Once again, comes back to believing in a mass conspiracy against trump rather than the obvious answer that Trump and his staff's various ties as well as meetings are the reason for the FISA warrant.

 

[tres borrachos]

Why is it fake news?

Because as it turns out, it was fake news. No names. The FBI Director said something completely different.

The textbook definition of fake news. But I think you probably already knew that.

 

[humbolt]

Why is it fake news?

It's genuine. I happened to hear it before it was committed to an actual news report. It has since been reported and verified by multiple reputable media sources. The source I know of was Peter Ward, I believe.

 

[JMR]

I read what there was to read about Carter Page ... last year when his name came up.
He was not recruited as a Russian operative.
Who said he was?
Even the NYT said the Russians tried to recruit him.

So the question remains, what was confirmed from the dossier?
If you bring up Page again it'll be obvious you have nothing.

He was not an agent because he said he wasn't? OK.

The situation regarding Page is pretty serious, but since you have found the means to wipe that from your mind, and wish to carry forward:

Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort was named in the dossier as having worked with Russian agents to compile damaging information on Hillary Clinton. The NYT published details of his extensive contacts with Russian intelligence agents. This part of the dossier is verified, and Manafort is under indictment by Special Counsel Mueller.

 

[holbritter]

Because as it turns out, it was fake news. No names. The FBI Director said something completely different.

The textbook definition of fake news. But I think you probably already knew that.

No, I didn't. I saw the link someone else provided on another thread that was valid.

Here, I found it

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybe...accuracies-in-controversial-gop-memo-n2441862

 

[Fenton]

You said used in any way. I gave you an example of how it could be incorporated with other intel and used. If you have 3 sources of intel telling you there was a meeting between Don Jr and Russians and one was the Steele Dossier...than the Steel Dossier would be included among the other intel as support when you apply for the FISA warrant. It wasn't the sole reason, it wasn't even the main reason, it was one piece of many threads.

There is a place in the spectrum between the Steel Dossier having nothing to do with the investigation and the Steel Dossier being the sole basis of the investigation. Paraphrasing you...let me help you grasp the significance of nuance.


I don't know who Ohr is but I'm pretty sure he would of needed clearance from top staff in the FBI and the DOJ as well as a judge to sign off for him to get any sort of FISA warrant on a person running for President. Once again, comes back to believing in a mass conspiracy against trump rather than the obvious answer that Trump and his staff's various ties as well as meetings are the reason for the FISA warrant.

You dont know who Bruce Ohr is ???

Bruce Ohr was Obama's deputy assistant AG and met with Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson both before the election and after the election.

Bruce Ohr's wife, Nellie Ohr was hired by Fusion GPS to conduct anti-Trump oppo-research. Nellie Ohr is also a expert in Russian affairs and can also speak Russian fluently.

Bruce Ohr was a senior Obama DOJ official with direct ties to a oppo-research firm that was being funded by Hillary and the DNC.

Thats all anyone knows about Ohr and his wife, because no reason has been given for his 2 demotions

Once the memo is released we'll learn why Ohr was demoted, because he's one of the people mentioned in the memo.

Ive been saying for some time the dossier is absolutely toxic...to the Democrats.

 

[bubbabgone]

Not to mention FISA 702 query abuse that was so great that the FISA court had to forbid ANYONE of using that system.

I suspect a lot of the useful idiots don't even understand what a FISA 702 query is...or how it could be abused. Rest assured, though, the court understood.

You have to admit though, it does make for a nice tidy little technique for political opponents to use.
I can think of a couple of ladies who would back me up on that.

 

[bubbabgone]

The FBI employees released from the team concern me. They were released though and there's no indication that the person in charge, Mueller, is doing anything other than his job. I've not heard of any Fusion connections other than to the Dossier itself. I've not heard of any Fusion connections to the Don Jr meeting either.

I'm not sure if the Clinton machine has done the Democratic party many favors so I'm not a fan of everybody being connected to them...but they are huge in the party and it would be like trying to remove anyone connected to Reagan or connected to the Bush's. Reagan is connected to everyone due to his impact on the party and Bush's are connected to everyone due to their longevity in the party and the different positions held by the family.

the Clintons are both of those things...huge impact in the 90's and longevity. Also...being connected to a politician or former politician isn't illegal.

Then that explains a great deal. You should look up Bruce & Nellie Ohr and who arranged the meeting with Don Jr.

And it sounds like your research might still be wanting concerning some of the circumstances surrounding Hillary's other problems too.

 

[bubbabgone]

He was not an agent because he said he wasn't? OK.

The situation regarding Page is pretty serious, but since you have found the means to wipe that from your mind, and wish to carry forward:

Trump's campaign manager Paul Manafort was named in the dossier as having worked with Russian agents to compile damaging information on Hillary Clinton. The NYT published details of his extensive contacts with Russian intelligence agents. This part of the dossier is verified, and Manafort is under indictment by Special Counsel Mueller.

I had to laugh.
I never thought you'd mention it because Manafort worked for The Podesta Group ... get that? The brother of Hillary's campaign manager John Podesta.
You are really mixed up.
And just so you know, the reason for Manafort's indictment predates and has nothing to do with the Trump campaign.

 

[bubbabgone]

It's genuine. I happened to hear it before it was committed to an actual news report. It has since been reported and verified by multiple reputable media sources. The source I know of was Peter Ward, I believe.

In that case we can move on to objecting to the source.
If that fails we always have "It's no big deal."

 

[JMR]

I had to laugh.
I never thought you'd mention it because Manafort worked for The Podesta Group ... get that? The brother of Hillary's campaign manager John Podesta.
You are really mixed up.
And just so you know, the reason for Manafort's indictment predates and has nothing to do with the Trump campaign.

HaHa. Yes Manafort did lobbying work for the Podesta Group. Along with lobbying for other groups.
He also had other extensive contact with Russian agents, lots of financial dealings, and indictments for dealings with players that continued to play in the campaign.

The Hill:

The details about Podesta and Mercury are only one part of the Justice Department's 12-count indictment against Manafort and Gates. Prosecutors charge that the two men knowingly evaded foreign lobbying disclosure laws by doing work for the Centre and then lying about it. Other charges include conspiracy against the United States, conspiracy to launder money, tax evasion and lying to federal authorities.

I think you might be confused as to who is mixed up. Obviously Manafort is very mixed up...you, even, may be mixed up.

And just so you know, I will probably not depend on you for information about the dossier. We can still be friends, no?