132 Dems vote against bill cracking down on fentanyl, cite ‘inequities’ in criminal justice system

[Crakhobarbie]

what does that have to do with Democrats saying this is targeting blacks/inequities ?

Come back when you understand post#20

 

[LouC]

I suspect that the democratic politicians that voted against the bill rely heavily on the fentanyl junkie vote (I kid you not, democrats scrape the bottom of the barrel for votes), and while they could send in an absentee ballot from prison...

Thank you so very much for that lovely piece of garbage posting that made no effort at all to rely on any factual evidence but did obviously and blatantly rely on total partisan biased thinking.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Thank you so very much for that lovely piece of garbage posting that made no effort at all to rely on any factual evidence but did obviously and blatantly rely on total partisan biased thinking.

Why was the dangers of fentanyl not brought up during the George Floyd debacle? Perhaps had the msn focused on the dangers of the drug, the end goal wouldn't have been achieved (the end goal is to get the general public to mistrust the police and have "police reform" starting at the federal level.)

 

[hecatmoggie]

Come back when you understand post#20

connect the dots for me because I don't get it

referencing crack cocaine from 4 decades ago

 

[LouC]

Why was the dangers of fentanyl not brought up during the George Floyd debacle?

Why should it have been?
Further, that was a murder of an innocent man, and not some "debacle".

Perhaps had the msn focused on the dangers of the drug, the end goal wouldn't have been achieved (the end goal is to get the general public to mistrust the police and have "police reform" starting at the federal level.)

The MEDIA focussed on exactly what it needed to focus on in that case, a murdering cop, aided and abetted by fellow officers from a poorly trained and poorly regulated police department.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

connect the dots for me because I don't get it

referencing crack cocaine from 4 decades ago

It's already been explained by numerous folks here. I grow weary of holding your hand.

 

[hecatmoggie]

It's already been explained by numerous folks here. I grow weary of holding your hand.

lol

so you can't answer

got it

 

[MrWonka]

addicts don't WANT to recover

Well, that is definately not true. At least not as a blanket generalization.

That's like saying a chubby person doesn't want to diet.

, we already saturate youth with drug information and you just said you want to legalize drugs ... its very hard to tell kids DO NOT use drugs (except you can use this one and this one and this one) but gawd do NOT use that one and that one

That's because right now we have a lot of stupid and conflicting information that anybody with a brain can figure out is false.
We tell people Marijuana is bad, it's dangerous, it'll fry your brain... In reality, Weed is probably one of the safest drugs out there. Alcohol is far more dangerous. So are many prescription medications.
Our drug policies aren't based on science or fact. They're inconsistent because they were mostly passed by people who have no ****ing clue what they're talking about.
When laws actually do make sense you'd be surprised how easy it is to help young people understand them.

what you want has failed over and over

No, it's actually working quite well in a number of different countries and states as we speak.

question - do prescription drugs get abused? there is your example of legal, controlled drugs ..... why doesn't it stop the abuse of prescription drugs?

Many prescription drugs are highly addictive and also very dangerous. That is why you need a prescription.

Weed on the other hand is not particularly addictive nor dangerous on its own. At a minimum, it is far less addictive and dangerous than alcohol or cigarettes.

 

[Crakhobarbie]

lol

so you can't answer

got it

I've let go of your hand.....

 

[BirdinHand]

At least those democrats realize a “war on fentanyl” would be as useless as the “war on drugs” was.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Well, at least in the case of crack, crack users were predominantly black, while powder users were predominantly white. It's not a long stretch of the imagination to see that cheap fentanyl could be seen as a drug more predominantly used by lower income (black) people. Thus, it does fall under the category of being racially significant.

no, it doesn't

there are far more poor white/brown people than white people in the USA - fact

Because fentanyl is so cheap, lower income (black) felons will be attracted to it. Wouldn't a bill that attacks where fentanyl and it's analogs come from be more beneficial? The vast majority of fentanyl and it's analogs comes from china.

again, has nothing to do with skin color - low income felons of all skin colors would be attracted. If more blacks or more whites or more browns use, that's their choices, the law itself isn't discriminating against anyone

I mean if we showed whites are the cocaine users with 80% of cocaine arrests being white people, does that make laws that prohibit cocaine racist? no, that's silly .... and what's being suggested here by Democrats is equally silly

There is far more nuance than that. See if you can figure it out. Unless of course you really think white people don't commit crimes in proportion to their population.

its cultural, its choice


I mean its like your side wants equal percentages of people in prison (proportionately) so we can say how fair and equal we are as a nation ??

again, its ridiculous to look at the above numbers and claim racist - what it DOES show is black population has a very hard time with drug use

I'd think that would make one side even MORE determined to rid this country of drugs but instead your Democrats want MORE drugs

 

[hecatmoggie]

Well, that is definately not true. At least not as a blanket generalization.

That's like saying a chubby person doesn't want to diet.

that's correct as an overall blanket statement, and true

That's because right now we have a lot of stupid and conflicting information that anybody with a brain can figure out is false.
We tell people Marijuana is bad, it's dangerous, it'll fry your brain... In reality, Weed is probably one of the safest drugs out there. Alcohol is far more dangerous. So are many prescription medications.
Our drug policies aren't based on science or fact. They're inconsistent because they were mostly passed by people who have no ****ing clue what they're talking about.
When laws actually do make sense you'd be surprised how easy it is to help young people understand them.

"safe" is an interesting term ... I'm very anti-drug, you'll have a very hard time getting me to agree to frying brains for fun and legally

No, it's actually working quite well in a number of different countries and states as we speak.

pick one, tell me which it is

Many prescription drugs are highly addictive and also very dangerous. That is why you need a prescription.

right - its Govt controlled like what pro-drug people want with recreational drugs so there won't be any problems .....which is what I've pointed out we have with prescription drugs AND we have massive problems

Govt control isn't the core problem - the drugs are

Weed on the other hand is not particularly addictive nor dangerous on its own. At a minimum, it is far less addictive and dangerous than alcohol or cigarettes.

dunno about that - but all I need to do is look around at daily pot smokers and see how their lives are going and overall ... not very productive people

 

[mrjurrs]

no, it doesn't

there are far more poor white/brown people than white people in the USA - fact


again, has nothing to do with skin color - low income felons of all skin colors would be attracted. If more blacks or more whites or more browns use, that's their choices, the law itself isn't discriminating against anyone

I mean if we showed whites are the cocaine users with 80% of cocaine arrests being white people, does that make laws that prohibit cocaine racist? no, that's silly .... and what's being suggested here by Democrats is equally silly


its cultural, its choice


I mean its like your side wants equal percentages of people in prison (proportionately) so we can say how fair and equal we are as a nation ??

again, its ridiculous to look at the above numbers and claim racist - what it DOES show is black population has a very hard time with drug use

I'd think that would make one side even MORE determined to rid this country of drugs but instead your Democrats want MORE drugs

Show the data where black people use drugs at a higher percentage than white people. I've shown you the data on how incarceration impacts white people less than black people.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Show the data where black people use drugs at a higher percentage than white people. I've shown you the data on how incarceration impacts white people less than black people.

Democrats are saying it - make these laws effects black people more, because black people are doing more drugs (or at least getting caught) and so, it disproportionately affects their voting base

I say the laws are fair and equal to everyone - do the drugs, get caught, do the time for it. If its 2X more white people, males, females, brown people whatever, I don't care.

 

[mrjurrs]

Democrats are saying it - make these laws effects black people more, because black people are doing more drugs (or at least getting caught) and so, it disproportionately affects their voting base

I say the laws are fair and equal to everyone - do the drugs, get caught, do the time for it. If its 2X more white people, males, females, brown people whatever, I don't care.

Source that claim.
That is a false description of the facts.

 

[poppopfox]

that's correct as an overall blanket statement, and true

How long have you worked in the rehab industry? Where do you get your authority to make the above claim? "All I need to do is look around" is not acceptable.

"safe" is an interesting term ... I'm very anti-drug, you'll have a very hard time getting me to agree to frying brains for fun and legally

How long have you been practicing psychiatry? Or are you a neurologist?

pick one, tell me which it is
right - its Govt controlled like what pro-drug people want with recreational drugs so there won't be any problems .....which is what I've pointed out we have with prescription drugs AND we have massive problems

Describe 'massive' and what the problems are.

Govt control isn't the core problem - the drugs are

So it is the guns. Can I share this in that forum section?

dunno about that - but all I need to do is look around at daily pot smokers and see how their lives are going and overall ... not very productive people

The bolded is the core problem with your argument. Sounds very Archie Bunkerish to me.

 

[Deuce]

132 Dems vote against bill cracking down on fentanyl, cite ‘inequities’ in criminal justice system

Dozens of Democrats voted against legislation on Thursday aimed at imposing permanent tough penalties on fentanyl-related substances, claiming inequities in the justice system.

www.foxnews.com

why in the WORLD would you vote against this ?

132 Dems vote against bill cracking down on fentanyl, cite ‘inequities’ in criminal justice system​

Its not "inequity" .... its fair and equal to EVERYONE ...... get caught with fentanyl and do serious time, don't matter what color your skin

What am I missing here?

You're missing that the law doesn't actually get applied equally.

 

[Deuce]

ok fine but that's not racist, like Democrats are trying to say

It is racist because that distinction is done because black people use crack cocaine more and white people use powder cocaine more.

 

[Deuce]

But during floor debate on the bill, several Democrats argued against the bill by saying the penalties it imposes for producing and selling fentanyl analogues would fall unfairly on minorities.

That is not USING....that is dealing and producing

And certainly "intent to distribute" has never been misused by law enforcement, right?

 

[JasperL]

Watch a weekends worth of On Patrol....unedited Live police interaction in like 8 jurisdictions around the country

Every weekend there are at least 1-2 fentanyl related OD's shown

This is an epidemic.....and many many lives are being lost to this drug

Doesnt matter your POV on this countries past history with drug offenders

What are we going to do to stop people from dying from fentanyl NOW

Your last question is the relevant one. I don't think we can look at the history of the War on (some) Drugs and conclude the answer to the drug epidemic is longer mandatory prison sentences for dealers, of even tiny amounts of the drug, or any analogue of that drug, even if harmless. That primarily feeds the prison industry, but does little for the actual problem, which is addiction and people dying.

The Fox article points out that the bill makes permanent policies in place on a temporary basis since 2018. Well, how well has that worked out to REDUCE overdose deaths. I'll put the graph below, but the problem for me is this kind of law is just the equivalent of throwing up one's hands and saying, well, let's do SOMETHING!!!! TOUGH ON DRUGS!!!! But it won't work and we know it - the data are right there in the graph.

Someone else posted a letter opposing the bill and that laid out the many reasons why. It would be helpful for the public to actually debate those concerns, versus just mindlessly supporting mandatory scheduling and minimum sentences not for fentanyl but also all fentanyl 'related' substances.

 

[JasperL]

addicts don't WANT to recover, we already saturate youth with drug information and you just said you want to legalize drugs ...

It's not true that 'addicts' do not want to recover. I was an addict and did want to recover and did recover (knock on wood). Many other addicts also want to recover, obviously, which is why they get treatment, because they want to recover.

And at some level it's a meaningless point unless and until those that DO want to recover have access to tools, such as treatment, including with some promising drugs, that help them recover.

its very hard to tell kids DO NOT use drugs (except you can use this one and this one and this one) but gawd do NOT use that one and that one

Except the data in countries that "legalized" drugs don't show increases in use by kids. And of course now in many states we have that exact situation - you can use the drugs alcohol and pot, but not heroin, cocaine, etc. The drug alcohol has been legal except during prohibition, so that message (this is OK, because mommy and daddy use this drug, but don't use other drugs) is already what kids have heard for years.

what you want has failed over and over

The War on Drugs is what's failed over and over.

question - do prescription drugs get abused? there is your example of legal, controlled drugs ..... why doesn't it stop the abuse of prescription drugs?

There's no way on earth to "stop" the abuse of drugs.

 

[dockside]

Ok. The democrat lawmakers, and myself, disagree with you.
Stop the source ( china), you stop the deaths.

No. If you stop the demand, you stop the supply. So IMO, we have to find out why people so willingly will risk their lives to use drugs and address those issues. And do not tell me it is too expensive. What do you think our present situation costs?

 

[Crakhobarbie]

If you stop the demand, you stop the supply.

This is a good point.
Unfortunately, since the beginning of man on earth, nobody has figured out how to stop folks from inebriating themselves.
So, while it's a good point it is absolutely worthless because we cannot control addiction.

 

[hecatmoggie]

How long have you worked in the rehab industry? Where do you get your authority to make the above claim? "All I need to do is look around" is not acceptable.

How long have you been practicing psychiatry? Or are you a neurologist?

Describe 'massive' and what the problems are.

So it is the guns. Can I share this in that forum section?

The bolded is the core problem with your argument. Sounds very Archie Bunkerish to me.

I've got enough experience with drug addicts thank you, I know what I know.

"massive" means the prescription drug addictions we have in the USA right now

you cannot equate guns to drugs - please stop being silly. My guns don't influence my mind, warp my reality, they're not addicting in any way, shape or form, ... geeesh

as for the bolded? yes, looking around is a very good way of understanding .... its wayyyy better than believing what's given to you through CNN or Twitter

 

[hecatmoggie]

It's not true that 'addicts' do not want to recover. I was an addict and did want to recover and did recover (knock on wood). Many other addicts also want to recover, obviously, which is why they get treatment, because they want to recover.

funny how Democrats want to legalize all these drugs that get people addicted isn't it ?

And at some level it's a meaningless point unless and until those that DO want to recover have access to tools, such as treatment, including with some promising drugs, that help them recover.

those who do - my daughter is one of the many who do not

Except the data in countries that "legalized" drugs don't show increases in use by kids. And of course now in many states we have that exact situation - you can use the drugs alcohol and pot, but not heroin, cocaine, etc. The drug alcohol has been legal except during prohibition, so that message (this is OK, because mommy and daddy use this drug, but don't use other drugs) is already what kids have heard for years.

The War on Drugs is what's failed over and over.

There's no way on earth to "stop" the abuse of drugs.

don't complain about addictions if you're supporting legalizing and providing access to the drugs