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12 Years Later, Truthers Still Have No Clue

I won't say that videos can't be modified, since I've done it before, but the video evidence supporting the official report is relatively straight forward. I really don't see how there's any room for error when it comes to the physical cause for the towers collapsing. I'd almost entertain theories about who was "really" flying the planes, but not very strongly. Once you start talking about brain probes or UFO holograms, you're a nutter. I lost extended family in the attack, and although I'm not personally offended by truthers, I can definitely see why most people are just plain tired of this crap. I don't care about UFO theories and crap like that, it's perfectly innocent and almost interesting, but once you put people's loved ones in the mix, it really rubs people the wrong way.

The UFO theories at least serve a good purpose. It's a perfect method of keeping top secret development of military hardware under wraps. The idiots who insist they saw or regularly see UFO's just have not worked out that they have been played. I would imagine that the SR-71 was seen and declared a UFO a time or two before it's existence became public. It's first prototype flew in 1959. It was at least the late 1970s before it's existence became widely known.
 
I contend these people were deluded prior to 2001 and 911. Their delusions only became more pronounced and focused.

A moron is not created by one great event.
 
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I contend these people were deluded prior to 2001 and 911. Their delusions only became more pronounced and focused.

A moron is not created by one great event.


Is each moron a spontaneous event, or the result of planned actions? Can being a moron be a genetic event, like other human conditions connected to genetic makeup? I wonder what percentage of the population is moronic? Created by whom?

How does one go about creating a moron?
 
Is each moron a spontaneous event, or the result of planned actions? Can being a moron be a genetic event, like other human conditions connected to genetic makeup? I wonder what percentage of the population is moronic? Created by whom?

How does one go about creating a moron?

I aint gonna touch this one ;)
 
@doniston. This response will need two parts:
- the first part sets up the scenery for the explanations and covers some preliminary bits.
- my responses to your "Four Main Issues" will be in the second part - a later post.

I promised in my next post to you, I might blow your mind, Of course I realize that can't be done unless you believe my tale. And I am fully aware that you and/or others may believe I am completely out of my gourd. However, I swear that the following is absolutely true, (and it is relevant to this thread. )
Whether or not I believe your tale is of little importance. HOWEVER you make the claim "it is relevant to this thread." IMNSHO you are spot on - it is very relevant because it shows that you are proficient at forming and processing "mental images" - you can operate in the "visual" domain to understand the 3D mechanics of "how it happened". Very many 9/11 discussers cannot do that. In fact I would claim that most of the big issue misunderstandings about WTC 9/11 collapses have arisen because many of the engineers and technical people involved are strong on numeric skills and weak in visualising skills. I am strongly biased towards "visual". But let me not drift too far into the side track - I want to address the technical points you raise. You have a lot of true bits of visual there - I want to splice them into their proper place in the movie "WTC Collapse - What Really Happened".
I have had a great number of strange things happen to me during my life, I have been visited twice by people from beyond the grave, In my younger years, I have had a mental telepathy connection in one direction or the other, (never 2 way) with 7 different people. One lasted for about 4 years and was very prominent.and she was always at my beck and call without her ever accepting that it was happening.
The greatest mystery of my life occured in 1956 when I apparently teleport ed 4½ miles in the blink of an eye , and which put a whole airforce base in an uproar. It has never been explained and even I find it hard to believe.
It was also in 1956 when I met Anthony Marlow, a then world renouned Hypnotist and psychic. Becase he couldn't hypnotize me,we got to talking about the odd things which had happened to me up to then. He told me that I had a form of ESP, combined with an ability for astral projetion or travel. And since that time, I have never met anyone who has had the same odd capacities as I.
In a nut shell, I have the very odd facility of looking at myself from outside. I can see myself walking down the street, or siting in my chair , in full color, amd wearing the actual cloths witch I am then wearing. Like at this moment, I can see myself sitting in my chair with the keyboard in front of me a'typin away. This is not the usual textbook form of astral projection because it seems just my thoughts leave my physical body and look back at me. You may call it a vivid imagination, I can't really explain it, but I know it exists. And I have had this ability since I was 17 and in the navy
Very interesting experiences and thanks for posting them but let's focus on how your visual imagery skills are relevant to comprehending WTC collapses.
Now, why am I telling you this? Because, while I was reading your post I had projected myself into the damaged building and witnessed first hand what was going on.[SUP]A[/SUP] I watched floors buckle and drop away and girders twist and bend[SUP]T1[/SUP]. So what I am now relating is what I “SAW”[SUP]B[/SUP] while I was reading your post[SUP]C[/SUP]. Strangely, I didn't see he plane, but only the damage being done due to the crash[SUP]T2[/SUP]. I saw a raging fire which was eaing away at the pillars and stanchions within the OOS[SUP]T3[/SUP] (your terminology) seemingly up to about five stories high[SUP]T4[/SUP], then the top saging down and the stantions on that side of the building bend, contort, and collapse the flour and portions of upper floors, and the distortion of the top blockbuilding straining to stay upright while the underpinigs wer being wiped away. So rather than the whole top tilting, it was straining to kept theundamaged side upright while the damaged side was sagging[SUP]T5[/SUP].
The problem was that the central core remained upright and and did not buckle [SUP]T6[/SUP]. When the “oos” floors started to collapse, the central core columns contined to stand upright with the girders leaning to the side like the splines of an umbrella[SUP]T7[/SUP]. ' and that goes against your studied consideration[SUP]T8[/SUP]. I also know that the building was too broad to have the loss of a story or two on one side create much of a tilt to the top halve[SUP]T9[/SUP],
(Wait for the next post - if you want the answers to your "four main issues" - the following are a few point from the preceding quoted section.

The bits indexed A, B, C... are about our similar thinking processes:
A Exactly my first step - Visualise WTF is going on?
B Agreed - "SAW" meaning "formed a mental image of" - I prefer to shut my eyes so I can "see" clearer.
C I do the same myself when reading other peoples' posts - especially when they are "numbers biased" and don't have a clear "view" of what they are trying to describe.

The bits indexed T1, T2, T3....etc are technical aspects that we will need to get clear at some stage - my preliminary comments follow:
T1 We will need to develop a broad "view" of how the various stages progressed - then you can revisit this aspect.
T2 "being done" - the crash was over in fractions of a second. So a valid view would be "damage that had been done" - seen after that event OR you are visualising in high speed camera mode. ;)
T3 The OOS ("Open Office Space") was clear of stanchions - that was the deliberate design to give unobstructed clear space for the offices. The "stanchions" (columns - vertical members of structure) - were in the outer perimeter walls AND in the central service core - bathrooms, stairs and lifts area - oops "elevators" - pardon my UK/AU English bias.
T4 Five is about right for the vertical dimension of the "impact and fire zone - minimum three and bits affected five .
T5 The broad picture is OK. We need to work on some details. This is the main feature of the "initiation stage" i.e. "How did the cascade failure progress?"
T6, T7, T8 Yes. We will need to work on that - it another aspect of "How did the cascade failure progress?"
T9 WTC2 Top Block tilted over 20[SUP]o[/SUP] and involved "many" floors on the low side. Another aspect of "How did the cascade failure progress?"

I'll leave it there and start on Part 2 - my response to your "Four Main Issues".

If you want to do some research go to this thread Start with my post #1075 on that page. (And ignore KokomoJojo's nonsense - my stuff and Kat Dorman's is correct - Koko was trying to deceive truthers.)
 
Holy ****. After reading through this thread apparently there are a lot of uses who only hang around the conspiracy area....
 
Actually I havent got a flu shot in 2 years. Is that bad!?!?!
Put it this way the WTC Collapse conspiracies are examples of clear thinking rationality alongside some other conspiracies.

My career background was as a water supply engineer - at the time fluoridation of water supplies was introduced. I make no comment on the merit of the program....but the "logic" of the opponents was....."amusing" AND the egocentric "me first" - "bugger the community" attitudes

ditto the arguments against vaccination etc..... none of them easy debate territory

In comparison the fact of WTC collapses was "No CD involved" - and after ~13 years we still cannot get that truth through some thick skulls.

...sure there is no obligation to get it through said thick skulls.

And MOST of the apparently thick skulls we see these days are pretenders jerking chains....who only have medium thick skulls.

...but you knew all that didn't you. :roll:
 
Put it this way the WTC Collapse conspiracies are examples of clear thinking rationality alongside some other conspiracies.

My career background was as a water supply engineer - at the time fluoridation of water supplies was introduced. I make no comment on the merit of the program....but the "logic" of the opponents was....."amusing" AND the egocentric "me first" - "bugger the community" attitudes

ditto the arguments against vaccination etc..... none of them easy debate territory

In comparison the fact of WTC collapses was "No CD involved" - and after ~13 years we still cannot get that truth through some thick skulls.

...sure there is no obligation to get it through said thick skulls.

And MOST of the apparently thick skulls we see these days are pretenders jerking chains....who only have medium thick skulls.

...but you knew all that didn't you. :roll:

Do you know where the lizard people are?
 
Have pity on me - I'm an engineer - narrow technical focus.

I don't even know WHO the Lizard People are.

Thank god you are a engineer. So is one of my friends!
 
Post #180 and Post #181

Post #181 is the correction of Post #180.

And since I QUOTED one of those posts I suspect the claim "If I have two post I don;t know about it" is rather *ahem* suspect.

And what were you "right about" based on your inability to admit when you are wrong?
i'l just answerthe last part it goes al the way back to 151, , 178, and several others, PICKY PICKY PICKY, your attitute leaves much to be desired.; you may respond or whatever, I may or may not respond., I don't really need your attitude.
 
It's worse. I've also got a degree in law.
2r6pnpi.png



...what hope breaking out of the left brain technical details world...

Tell me more!
 
Have pity on me - I'm an engineer - narrow technical focus.

I don't even know WHO the Lizard People are.

SIGH!
Oz this has been mentioned many times before.
The universe is at war!
The war is between the Lizard People and the Space Vampires. 911 was just one insignificant minor battle in the eternal struggle and we are all just unwitting pawns.
 
doniston,

Straight up question.

Do you have ANY evidence that ANYTHING other than the airliner damage and subsequent fire led to the collapses of the towers?
Ok, this is your last answer about anyting, I weill offer no evidence to you about anything, I don't see thatyou deserve it. I am offering my opinion and my thoughts, if that isn't good enough for you TUFF "T"
 
Tell me more!
I'm trying to write a serious response for doniston....

HOWEVER
Long term interest in sorting out where engineers go off the rails. Had to seeing I managed a couple of hundred of them over the years. The risk of "forest v trees" syndrome OR its cousin "alligators or swamp draining" always present. "WhyTF are we worried about this - what were we really trying to do..."

THEN technical explanation. Met a colleague in the town where I used to live and he asked me what I thought of the CD of WTC on 9/11.

I laughed then realised he was serious. Well I'm not the one to offer professional information unless I'm sure so a few weeks research and extended discussions with him. Found lots of WTC collapse discussion on the Richard Dawkins Forum. Posted this as the opening salvo of my first post:
econ41 13 Nov 2007 said:
The supporters of 9/11 conspiracies build on the same foundation as the creationists - poor logic, worse science together with distortions, lies and deliberate deceptions.

The paper referenced as Engineering Reality by Tony Szamboti is typical of many which look impressive in detail to the non-engineer. The complex calculations may even be correct but the base premises are faulty and the resulting conclusions can readily be demonstrated to be totally wrong.
A week later I was dominating the debate - sole engineer among a lot of biological scientists. Two months later I was moderating the sub-forum. The rest history.

Maybe I'm a slow learner.
 
SIGH!
Oz this has been mentioned many times before.
The universe is at war!
The war is between the Lizard People and the Space Vampires. 911 was just one insignificant minor battle in the eternal struggle and we are all just unwitting pawns.
My Old Farts Disease - memory.

..do the sums with that not so mysterious ozeco41
 
@doniston. This response will need two parts:
- the first part sets up the scenery for the explanations and covers some preliminary bits.
- my responses to your "Four Main Issues" will be in the second part - a later post.

Whether or not I believe your tale is of little importance. HOWEVER you make the claim "it is relevant to this thread." IMNSHO you are spot on - it is very relevant because it shows that you are proficient at forming and processing "mental images" - you can operate in the "visual" domain to understand the 3D mechanics of "how it happened". Very many 9/11 discussers cannot do that. In fact I would claim that most of the big issue misunderstandings about WTC 9/11 collapses have arisen because many of the engineers and technical people involved are strong on numeric skills and weak in visualising skills. I am strongly biased towards "visual". But let me not drift too far into the side track - I want to address the technical points you raise. You have a lot of true bits of visual there - I want to splice them into their proper place in the movie "WTC Collapse - What Really Happened".
Very interesting experiences and thanks for posting them but let's focus on how your visual imagery skills are relevant to comprehending WTC collapses.

(Wait for the next post - if you want the answers to your "four main issues" - the following are a few point from the preceding quoted section.

The bits indexed A, B, C... are about our similar thinking processes:
A Exactly my first step - Visualise WTF is going on?
B Agreed - "SAW" meaning "formed a mental image of" - I prefer to shut my eyes so I can "see" clearer.
C I do the same myself when reading other peoples' posts - especially when they are "numbers biased" and don't have a clear "view" of what they are trying to describe.

The bits indexed T1, T2, T3....etc are technical aspects that we will need to get clear at some stage - my preliminary comments follow:
T1 We will need to develop a broad "view" of how the various stages progressed - then you can revisit this aspect.
T2 "being done" - the crash was over in fractions of a second. So a valid view would be "damage that had been done" - seen after that event OR you are visualising in high speed camera mode. ;)
T3 The OOS ("Open Office Space") was clear of stanchions - that was the deliberate design to give unobstructed clear space for the offices. The "stanchions" (columns - vertical members of structure) - were in the outer perimeter walls AND in the central service core - bathrooms, stairs and lifts area - oops "elevators" - pardon my UK/AU English bias.
T4 Five is about right for the vertical dimension of the "impact and fire zone - minimum three and bits affected five .
T5 The broad picture is OK. We need to work on some details. This is the main feature of the "initiation stage" i.e. "How did the cascade failure progress?"
T6, T7, T8 Yes. We will need to work on that - it another aspect of "How did the cascade failure progress?"
T9 WTC2 Top Block tilted over 20[SUP]o[/SUP] and involved "many" floors on the low side. Another aspect of "How did the cascade failure progress?"

I'll leave it there and start on Part 2 - my response to your "Four Main Issues".

If you want to do some research go to this thread Start with my post #1075 on that page. (And ignore KokomoJojo's nonsense - my stuff and Kat Dorman's is correct - Koko was trying to deceive truthers.)
First comment, Being done referred to the fire damage, the crash happened but the damage disn't stop there, thefire dis the rest. (intermediate, Actuaslly inmy case I SEE" I know that is hard to fathum, but tiz true.I Ilterally see these things) t hanks forthe start, You at least se etheposibility of strng goings on.
 
SIGH!
Oz this has been mentioned many times before.
The universe is at war!
The war is between the Lizard People and the Space Vampires. 911 was just one insignificant minor battle in the eternal struggle and we are all just unwitting pawns.

Space Vampires would snap the Lizard People off in a heartbeat

kill2b.gif
 
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