12 Years Later, Truthers Still Have No Clue (1 Viewer)

[505]

Like every year around this time, TLC has been playing their 9/11 documentaries all evening, and while sitting here watching and remembering the horror of that day, it just amazes me that the "truth movement" is still so all over the place after this long. You have no planers, thermite hoax believers, tactical nuke believers, directed space beam believers, LIHOPers, and pretty much every single combo of 2 or more of those.

Does anybody actually think that the truth movement will EVER get it's **** together and form a cohesive working theory on what actually happened? Or are we forever destined to be blessed with "wah I don't know what happened, but the official story is a lie!"?

 

[radioman]

Does anybody actually think that the truth movement will EVER get it's **** together and form a cohesive working theory on what actually happened?

Ummm...no.

-----------------------------------

Or are we forever destined to be blessed with "wah I don't know what happened, but the official story is a lie!"?

Ummm...yes.

 

[sbrettt]

Like every year around this time, TLC has been playing their 9/11 documentaries all evening, and while sitting here watching and remembering the horror of that day, it just amazes me that the "truth movement" is still so all over the place after this long. You have no planers, thermite hoax believers, tactical nuke believers, directed space beam believers, LIHOPers, and pretty much every single combo of 2 or more of those.

Does anybody actually think that the truth movement will EVER get it's **** together and form a cohesive working theory on what actually happened? Or are we forever destined to be blessed with "wah I don't know what happened, but the official story is a lie!"?

I've never seen any truthers on here. *Knocks on wood.*

 

[douglas]

I won't say that videos can't be modified, since I've done it before, but the video evidence supporting the official report is relatively straight forward. I really don't see how there's any room for error when it comes to the physical cause for the towers collapsing. I'd almost entertain theories about who was "really" flying the planes, but not very strongly. Once you start talking about brain probes or UFO holograms, you're a nutter. I lost extended family in the attack, and although I'm not personally offended by truthers, I can definitely see why most people are just plain tired of this crap. I don't care about UFO theories and crap like that, it's perfectly innocent and almost interesting, but once you put people's loved ones in the mix, it really rubs people the wrong way.

 

[mike2810]

No I don't think they will

good site for vids regarding 911

An Investigative Resource - Evidence based research

 

[psikeyhackr]

Does anybody actually think that the truth movement will EVER get it's **** together and form a cohesive working theory on what actually happened? Or are we forever destined to be blessed with "wah I don't know what happened, but the official story is a lie!"?

So where is the experiment demonstrating the "theory" that the top 15% of a skyscraper can fall and destroy the rest which was strong enough to support it?

Oh yeah, the OCT believers can't even ask about the distributions of steel and concrete down a skyscraper that tall.

9/11 is without question a scientific farce, and the horror of that day is irrelevant.

200,000+ people died in the tsunami of 2004.

2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

13,000 in 2011

Death toll from Japan quake, tsunami rises to 13,843 - CNN.com

But there is no dispute about the physics.

9/11 is a scientific farce.

psik

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

I really don't see how there's any room for error when it comes to the physical cause for the towers collapsing. I'd almost entertain theories about who was "really" flying the planes, but not very strongly.

I heard it was the Russian, the Cubans, J. Edgar Hoover and maybe LBJ. Oh, my bad, that was JFK's assassination. Maybe it was W's evil twin.

 

[douglas]

So where is the experiment demonstrating the "theory" that the top 15% of a skyscraper can fall and destroy the rest which was strong enough to support it?
~snip~
But there is no dispute about the physics.

9/11 is a scientific farce.

psik

Just as I can balance a bowling ball on my head with little practice or danger, should I let someone drop a 20lb bowling ball on my head?

 

[Thoreau72]

12 years later, the deluded still are.

Despite all the knowledge that has been gained in those 12 years, some americans (a minority perhaps) still believe Colin Powell et al. Sad comment, but true fact.

I'm wondering if they also believe John Kerry and Barack Obama about all this sarin gas business? Probably. :3oops:

 

[psikeyhackr]

Just as I can balance a bowling ball on my head with little practice or danger, should I let someone drop a 20lb bowling ball on my head?

Unfortunately you only have one head.

If you stacked 90 skulls and dropped the bowling ball on top how many skulls would be crushed?

I already modelled this:

WTC Modeling Instruction & Testing in the Real World - YouTube

The point is that the dropped mass cannot destroy the entire series. Energy is used up crushing the top of the stack and the mass stops. So how could the entire north tower be destroyed?

The people who believe that have accepted INSANE physics. But after 12 years they would look really stupid admitting it. So they need to say that models are irrelevant. But physics will never change or go away.

psik

 

[mike2810]

12 years later, the deluded still are.

Despite all the knowledge that has been gained in those 12 years, some americans (a minority perhaps) still believe Colin Powell et al. Sad comment, but true fact.

I'm wondering if they also believe John Kerry and Barack Obama about all this sarin gas business? Probably. :3oops:

for myself. No I don't believe JK or BO on the Syria other than gas was used.

Funny you make such broad wondering questions about people. It probably fits you to a tee. Never met a CT you didn't like.:lamo

 

[douglas]

Unfortunately you only have one head.

If you stacked 90 skulls and dropped the bowling ball on top how many skulls would be crushed?

I already modelled this:

WTC Modeling Instruction & Testing in the Real World - YouTube

The point is that the dropped mass cannot destroy the entire series. Energy is used up crushing the top of the stack and the mass stops. So how could the entire north tower be destroyed?

The people who believe that have accepted INSANE physics. But after 12 years they would look really stupid admitting it. So they need to say that models are irrelevant. But physics will never change or go away.

psik

In the bowling ball/head analogy, we're just trying to bread the neck, not crush any skulls. If you take a paving stone and drop it on another, they tend to break, so the issue of the floor-slabs shattering is fairly sound. If I drop 15 paving stones, even if they're already broken, on another, it'll break too.

If a structure is built to stand 15% of it's weight at 85% of it's height, and that 15% collapses, even if it does so incrementally in slices, the total force of the collision is guaranteed to be more than the 15% due to rest weight. If 1 floor-slab could shatter the one below it due to a free-fall collision, and it absolutely would, then many floor-slabs would shatter that same floor-slab.

Seeing your paper loop test, I still question the model; the strength of the paper versus the weight of the slabs seems out of ratio for the building, and paper doesn't behave similarly to steel beams. It also doesn't acknowledge that the floors could fall without the beams themselves breaking; they just need to shatter and fall through in the middle. Your model uses metal floor-slabs, which can't shatter, so don't really model that possibility.

 

[psikeyhackr]

In the bowling ball/head analogy, we're just trying to bread the neck, not crush any skulls. If you take a paving stone and drop it on another, they tend to break, so the issue of the floor-slabs shattering is fairly sound. If I drop 15 paving stones, even if they're already broken, on another, it'll break too.

Whether it is necks or skulls makes no difference. The point is you were talking about only one when for the analogy to be valid there would have to be a sequence of 90 and each break would require energy and the bowling ball would be slowed down at each one and run out of energy.

The supposed physics of collapse is stupidly impossible. That is why engineering schools are not even talking about trying to model it. They need for 9/11 to disappear. If it would work why not just do the model and be done with the whole thing? As it is you need to brow beat the "Conspiracy Theorists".

Also your analogy does not apply because a skyscraper would have to get stronger and heavier all of the way down to support the increasing weight so an model would have to take that into account.

psik

 

[sKiTzo]

Like every year around this time, TLC has been playing their 9/11 documentaries all evening, and while sitting here watching and remembering the horror of that day, it just amazes me that the "truth movement" is still so all over the place after this long. You have no planers, thermite hoax believers, tactical nuke believers, directed space beam believers, LIHOPers, and pretty much every single combo of 2 or more of those.

Does anybody actually think that the truth movement will EVER get it's **** together and form a cohesive working theory on what actually happened? Or are we forever destined to be blessed with "wah I don't know what happened, but the official story is a lie!"?

To all real posters: I've found a real forum where you debate with adults. Where shills and morons that get proven wrong time and again and don't admit it, are not tolerated. Here is what the moderator there told me: "We try very hard to avoid the DP experience here, and so far so good." . I've wasted 2 years on this forum, I've identified people who've exposed themselves as shills by responding to valid points I've made (including source links) with taunts and no rebuttal, time and time again, and DP refuses to do anything about them.
Shills/idiots: go ahead and play stupid over there and see how long you last ignoring evidence and poisoning the forums with your bs.
mods: ban me I won't be back!

 

[505]

Despite all the knowledge that has been gained in those 12 years, some americans (a minority perhaps) still believe Colin Powell et al.

A minority huh? When are you guys going to get even 1% of Architects and Engineers to agree with your silly fairytale again? Yeah, who's the minority? :lamo

 

[505]

So they need to say that models are irrelevant.

We don't say that ALL models are irrelevant. We say that YOUR models are irrelevant. You (for some reason) just can't see how silly and unrelated to the problem they actually are.

A dowel rod holding washers and paper loops in place has zero lateral movement. If the vertical beams of the towers all lined up with eachother during the collapse it would maybe be a little closer to what you are doing, but we all know that this wasn't the case. Lateral shifting allowed the beams to slide past eachother, meaning you have enormous amounts of mass slamming down into basically just the floor pans. Those floor pans CAN NOT arrest the falling mass of the upper block. Period. Not even close. You end up with a runaway cascading failure that went down the entire length of the building.

If you can not respect the amount of kinetic energy just ONE of those massive perimeter columns had, and how easily they would smash through the floor pans and/or slide to the outside of the building, there is no hope for you EVER understanding the chaotic nature of those collapses.

 

[505]

...and the bowling ball would be slowed down at each one and run out of energy.

And that right there is your biggest problem with this. The mass WAS NOT slowed down at each one. The initial amount of kinetic energy was SO GREAT that it overwhelmed the first floor almost like it wasn't even there. Then the next. And the next. All the while the amount of falling mass was increased each time.

You REALLY think that one of those floor pans would offer ANY sort of resistance to that upper block? Really? That is just asinine. Here's a model for you. Go pick up a 15-20 story building and drop it. Now try to build something that will stop it other than the ground. Yeah. Good luck with that.

 

[psikeyhackr]

We don't say that ALL models are irrelevant. We say that YOUR models are irrelevant. You (for some reason) just can't see how silly and unrelated to the problem they actually are.

So where have you been insisting that some engineering school make a model that can completely collapse?

If my model is irrelevant then where is one that is relevant? A model that can be reproduced not the original event.

psik

 

[505]

mods: ban me I won't be back!

:lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo :lamo

Yeah that TOTALLY sounds like the reasonable/sane side talking. Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

 

[505]

So where have you been insisting that some engineering school make a model that can completely collapse?

Oh I'm sorry, I haven't. I don't need a miniature working model to understand the chaotic nature of those collapses. You want the model, YOU go build it. I will however criticize things that I find severely lacking in relevancy.

 

[mike2810]

To all real posters: I've found a real forum where you debate with adults. Where shills and morons that get proven wrong time and again and don't admit it, are not tolerated. Here is what the moderator there told me: "We try very hard to avoid the DP experience here, and so far so good." . I've wasted 2 years on this forum, I've identified people who've exposed themselves as shills by responding to valid points I've made (including source links) with taunts and no rebuttal, time and time again, and DP refuses to do anything about them. Politicalfray.com
Shills/idiots: go ahead and play stupid over there and see how long you last ignoring evidence and poisoning the forums with your bs.
mods: ban me I won't be back!

and why didn't you state what site that is? I smell a conspiracy:mrgreen:

 

[505]

and why didn't you state what site that is? I smell a conspiracy:mrgreen:

She did. It's just hidden amongst her raving babbling psycho rant so it's hard to pick up on.

 

[psikeyhackr]

Oh I'm sorry, I haven't. I don't need a miniature working model to understand the chaotic nature of those collapses. You want the model, YOU go build it. I will however criticize things that I find severely lacking in relevancy.

Like I said. You regard all models as irrelevant and are not even interested in anyone trying make one to confirm your position.

Of course if people portraying themselves as experts publicly try to model the events and then can't do it that might be a bit embarrassing after TWELVE YEARS. :mrgreen:

psik

 

[Thoreau72]

for myself. No I don't believe JK or BO on the Syria other than gas was used.

Funny you make such broad wondering questions about people. It probably fits you to a tee. Never met a CT you didn't like.:lamo

I'm just a curious guy Mike, what can I say? And, of course, skeptical of government pronouncements.

I've met quite a few CT that I don't agree with. What does "like" have to do with it? Maybe you mean "like" here at DP? I've 'liked' several of your posts Mike, and Sanders too.

 

[mike2810]

She did. It's just hidden amongst her raving babbling psycho rant so it's hard to pick up on.

I missed it. my bad.:mrgreen:

got to quit speed reading.