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Maybe I'm just grumpy, but I guess I am no better, either, cuz I agree with councilman.
When Japan had that earthquake...we were there, helping. Didn't matter that they killed so many at Pearl Harbor.
The USA doesn't hold grudges.
Some do. And obviously most radical muslims are in that category.
And anyone that IS muslim has the stink of radicals hanging on their burqa's just like christians have the stink of Falwell's/Baker's/InsertPreacherNameHere on their prayer books.
Guess where the OP stopped? ...
"A small group of Muslims staged a counter-demonstration nearby, holding up placards reading 'Muslims Against Extremism' and 'If You Want Sharia, Move To Saudi'.
Abdul Sallam, 41, who was waving a sign that read 'Keep The Silence', travelled down to London from his home in Glasgow to show the strength of his feelings.
He said: 'I'm a Muslim. What they're doing is bringing shame on all Muslims.This is not part of the teachings of Islam.
'Islam is all about peace, but what they want to do is hate other people... "
Bigots on either side don't want his message heard.
The counter protest would be relvant if they could personally stop the violence these others are screaming about.
One group is very willing to kill people and are even saying they will, and the other group is saying "Please don't"
You have to take a threat seriously when it is coming from somebody that is capable of the violence and perfectly willing to commit it.
Sorry, I just don't see the difference between what that small group did, and what this small group did:
Florida preacher burns Koran in bizarre 'trial and execution' in front of a crowd of ... 30 people
Read more: Florida preacher Terry Jones burns Koran in bizarre 'trial and execution' in front of a crowd of ... 30 people | Mail Online
Has Terry Jones or any of his followers or any followers of his beliefs killed any Muslims?
Well, if there's a squeak in your brake pads, you take it to the mechanic.
It's called "preventative maintenance". I'd say this looks like a good place to start.
That is a conflation that liberals promoted to bash Bush with at the time. Iraq didn't have anything to do with the events of 9/11, however he was involved in supporting terrorist in that region, and that coupled with his constant refusal to comply with UN edicts, finally led to his bluff being called, and the people are better off for it.
An honest reading of history would probably serve you well friend.
And maybe if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass when it hoped. Hindsight armchair quaterbacking is one of the things that increased the divide we see today in politics.
Obviously I’m referencing the fact that we created two full blown wars when we should have just put all of our force into a single target that actually made sense to attack, perhaps which may have resulted in a shorter occupation and cheaper war.What a dichotomy you offer here, on the one hand you say that a larger response to Afghanistan would have been better, and on the other you question why we have to have large endeavors....Which is it?
Are you seriously trying to come in here with a "conservative" lean, and spout dem talking points from 2003?
Being a conservative your 9/11 is markedly obtuse and 2 dimensional.
still waiting for your explanation.
Sorry, been busy with something really important; my fantasy football team.Anyway, what I meant is, I can remember and commemorate the anniversary of 9-11 without being conflicted as to whether we had it coming or not. Personally, I'd never post something on 9-11 that would diminish the significance of what happened to the US that day by trying to focus attention and sympathy elsewhere. I'm sorry, but I believe we have the right to be angry about what happened and I think it's unnecessary hyperbole to compare a written expression of anger to actual acts of terrorism.
Whether or not you were trying to divert focus away from what occurred in the US on 9-11 does not alter that you seemed to suggest we should feel worse about what happens elsewhere to people who "live 9-11 every single ****ing day" (or something along those lines). It's just alway interesting to me when you demonstrate just who earns your hysterical outrage. What I do know is that there is a difference between murder and war and that 9-11 was an act of war, as well as an act of terrorism. Obviously you do not understand there's a difference between "the Enolas and Councilmans of the world" and the people who plan and/or carry out actual acts of terrorism. I tell you, I am far more concerned about the latter. Your condemnation of comments here sure seem unbalanced as compared to actually condemning what occurred on 9-11.it was an act of Terrorism against innocent civillians. nobody "had it coming". you bounced into the thread and quoted me after i challenged Enolas comment where she stated that she agreed with Councilman and his theory of perhaps we should've nuked an entire population of people. that is disgusting and commenting on that is not trying to take focus off what happened to those innocent people on 9/11. unless of course you are suggesting that bigoted comments like that should remian unchallenged? it is pointing out that acting like a ****ing savagage and wanting to nuke a whole country because of 9/11 and kill a bunch of innocent civillians makes the Enolas and Councilmans of the world no different than those bastard extremists who were behind 9/11. advocating the murder of any innocent civillians is revolting. surely that's not difficult even for you to understand.
Which goes to exactly what I said. We are not unified enough for you to be speaking in terms of "our 9-11". Each of us sees what happened according our perspective and your perspective is, clearly, far different than mine.if you care to focus on other posts in this thread rather than just mine then you will see that there are plenty of people who agree with me.
Well....:mrgreen:Of course people have a right to be angry about what happened. only an idiot would think otherwise.
Actually, I wasn't thinking that, but now that you mention it, would it be wrong to say that those of us in the US are more impacted by what happened on 9-11 than those who aren't? Just as those in New York, Washington DC and Pennsylvania were impacted more that those of us living in other states.xfactor, you jumped into this thread trying to be a smart ass and deep down your insinuations were aimed at the fact that i'm not an American so 9/11 couldn't possibly mean the same to me as it would you.
I'm definitely not ignorant enough to accept your false dichotomy. It's not all or nothing. If I say it affected Americans more, I'm NOT saying others were not also significantly affected. I remember many expressions of sympathy and support for the US from nations all around the world and I appreciated them (and still do). Even more so I deeply appreciate those of our allies who actually stood and even fought along side us in the conflicts in Iran and Afghanistan.once again you are incorrect. surely you are not that ignorant that you think 9/11 has only affected Americans?
Whether or not you were trying to divert focus away from what occurred in the US on 9-11 does not alter that you seemed to suggest we should feel worse about what happens elsewhere to people who "live 9-11 every single ****ing day" (or something along those lines). It's just alway interesting to me when you demonstrate just who earns your hysterical outrage. What I do know is that there is a difference between murder and war and that 9-11 was an act of war, as well as an act of terrorism. Obviously you do not understand there's a difference between "the Enolas and Councilmans of the world" and the people who plan and/or carry out actual acts of terrorism. I tell you, I am far more concerned about the latter. Your condemnation of comments here sure seem unbalanced as compared to actually condemning what occurred on 9-11. .
Which goes to exactly what I said. We are not unified enough for you to be speaking in terms of "our 9-11". Each of us sees what happened according our perspective and your perspective is, clearly, far different than mine. .
Well....:mrgreen:
Actually, I wasn't thinking that, but now that you mention it, would it be wrong to say that those of us in the US are more impacted by what happened on 9-11 than those who aren't?
I'm definitely not ignorant enough to accept your false dichotomy. It's not all or nothing. If I say it affected Americans more, I'm NOT saying others were not also significantly affected. I remember many expressions of sympathy and support for the US from nations all around the world and I appreciated them (and still do). Even more so I deeply appreciate those of our allies who actually stood and even fought along side us in the conflicts in Iran and Afghanistan.
Awesome, people who target innocent victims are actually just mentally ill. I think the correct term is sociopath. I never buy that terrorists are just "crazy" because insanity is considered an actual defense. I think terrorists are actually just bad people.boomark it and remember it, i'm sick of repeating it.
anyone that advocates the slaughter and targeting of innocent victims is a psychopath. advocating to nuke an entire population of people because of the actions of the 9/11 Terrorists is repulsive.
got it? good.
Well, it's your perspectives on "horrifying" and "significant" that would probably be where we differ. I won't say the actions of the 9-11 terrorists are no worse than people posting something on an Internet forum.my perspective is that innocent people were targeted by Terrorists on 9/11. it was a horrifying event. the loss of their lives is significant.
if you feel differently that's up to you.
What are you talking about? Your comment that I replied to was, like, one of the very first in this thread and, therefore, the first one to express something I wanted to reply to, so I did.then perhaps you should shut your stupid ignorant mouth and quit "selectively" quoting people who have said exactly what many others in the thread have said that you have chosen to ignore when you have no clue how the events of 9/11 have affected them then.
This perspective appears recently manufactured.
If you really meant this, you would have circumvented the word censor.seriously. **** you.
Australia is, indeed, an awesome ally to the US, sincerely, one of our best, but I'm confused, who or what are you faulting for the bombing?i lost someone in the 2002 Bali bombings (which you have probably never heard about because it was 88 Australians not Americans) that were killed and your ignorant ass wouldn't count them as anything worthy because they were not born with a red white and blue stripe on their ass.
their deaths were a direct result of my Countries support of the U.S. war on terror and the support we continue to offer as a result of 9/11. they were targeted purely because of that support and because they were Australians. that happened in 2002 so the perspective is clearly not recently manufactured. you're just a troll. this thread is evident of that.
Are you talking to somebody else here? I haven't done any of this.you think because someone is critical of American foreign policy in some areas that autmoatically gives you the right to call them unamerican and haters. you are so full of ****. it's called having a ****ing brain and using it and thinking for yourself. every day i see plenty of posts here from Americans being critical of their Country. the way some of you speak about your President is disgraceful. all the birth certificate crap and obama is a muslim crap etc, just disgusting. perhaps they are the haters or is it only Americans who are allowed to be critical of their government and support the victims of 9/11?
you are disgusting. nothing but a slimy pathetic troll.
Australia is, indeed, an awesome ally to the US, sincerely, one of our best, but I'm confused, who or what are you faulting for the bombing?
As I have said before there is no room in this world for Radical Muslims and all they do and want to do is cause trouble and kill not just us but other Muslims.
It's sad to say but the only way to defeat them and end their reign of terror has nothing to do with with talking or treaties.
It's all about fighting fire with fire.
you think because someone is critical of American foreign policy in some areas that autmoatically gives you the right to call them unamerican and haters.
Australia was warned about its participation [in the war] in Afghanistan and its ignoble contribution to the separation of East Timor [from Indonesia]. But it ignored this warning until it was awakened by the echoes of explosions in Bali.
Full transcript of 'Osama bin Laden tape'
it was an act of Terrorism against innocent civillians. nobody "had it coming". you bounced into the thread and quoted me after i challenged Enolas comment where she stated that she agreed with Councilman and his theory of perhaps we should've nuked an entire population of people. that is disgusting and commenting on that is not trying to take focus off what happened to those innocent people on 9/11. unless of course you are suggesting that bigoted comments like that should remian unchallenged? it is pointing out that acting like a ****ing savagage and wanting to nuke a whole country because of 9/11 and kill a bunch of innocent civillians makes the Enolas and Councilmans of the world no different than those bastard extremists who were behind 9/11. advocating the murder of any innocent civillians is revolting. surely that's not difficult even for you to understand.
if you care to focus on other posts in this thread rather than just mine then you will see that there are plenty of people who agree with me.
of course people have a right to be angry about what happened. only an idiot would think otherwise. xfactor, you jumped into this thread trying to be a smart ass and deep down your insinuations were aimed at the fact that i'm not an American so 9/11 couldn't possibly mean the same to me as it would you.
once again you are incorrect. surely you are not that ignorant that you think 9/11 has only affected Americans?
You mention Australia was targeted in the Bali bombings because it was allied with the U.S. in the War on Terror. I noticed you failed to mention there was another reason Australia was allegedly targeted, and that had absolutely nothing to do with the United States:
You reference the Rand Corp's conclusions like its Gospel. I haven't been on this forum for a few years, but you were citing the same report like 2 years ago when I was more active here. What if this Conservative think tank had said the opposite? Would you still agree with them? I highly doubt it. You're singling out one RAND report for political reasons, not reasonable intellectual ones. You don't follow the Rand because of its validity, you just singled out this one report because it had conclusions that are expedient to youYou are absolutely correct Serenity, it is wrong for anyone to kill innocent civilians, no matter how it is justified or what flag is flown by the ones that do it. We in fact let a great opportunity pass us by after 9/11. At that time the whole world was with us condemning the horrible tragedy we suffered that day. We squandered that good will by invading and killing many more innocent civilians than we lost in two countries that never attacked the US, rather than enlisting the support of the world to condemn and seek out terrorists around the world. As the conservative Rand Corp determined in their report commissioned by the Pentagon, that resulted only in creating more terrorists and more hatred of America.
Catawba said:Bin Laden said we would be defeated not on the battlefield but financially by trying to fight futile wars, and we seem determined to prove him correct, IMO.
Civilians were dieing in droves before the United States entered Iraq or Afghanistan, so to blame the US for civilian deaths there is like saying cops are responsible for gang warfare if cops start arresting ring leadersCatawba said:I admire you for defending innocent civilians everywhere.eace
You reference the Rand Corp's conclusions like its Gospel. I haven't been on this forum for a few years, but you were citing the same report like 2 years ago when I was more active here. What if this Conservative think tank had said the opposite? Would you still agree with them? I highly doubt it. You're singling out one RAND report for political reasons, not reasonable intellectual ones. You don't follow the Rand because of its validity, you just singled out this one report because it had conclusions that are expedient to you
So what exactly would your alternatives had been? Just send a couple guys to Afghanistan and Saudia Arabia to try and kill Osama Bin Laden and the other terrorists? Guess what? Bush did that and it failed horribly. We should've sent more troops into Afghanistan in 2001, not less. The problem wasn't that we were spending too much money to start with, it's that guys like Rummy wanted the wars to be cheap, quick, and with little manpower. That mentality turned out to cost us dearly in the long-run, but I think yours could've had even worse results
Maybe we shouldn't have invaded Iraq in retrospect, but one thing people like you will never admit is that we won. Iraq was a political and battlefield defeat for Al Qaeda, and the representative government there will only benefit our positions in the Middle East in the years to come
Civilians were dieing in droves before the United States entered Iraq or Afghanistan, so to blame the US for civilian deaths there is like saying cops are responsible for gang warfare if cops start arresting ring leaders.
Are your SHIFT keys broken?boomark it and remember it, i'm sick of repeating it.
anyone that advocates the slaughter and targeting of innocent victims is a psychopath. advocating to nuke an entire population of people because of the actions of the 9/11 Terrorists is repulsive.
got it? good.
my perspective is that innocent people were targeted by Terrorists on 9/11. it was a horrifying event. the loss of their lives is significant.
if you feel differently that's up to you.
then perhaps you should shut your stupid ignorant mouth and quit "selectively" quoting people who have said exactly what many others in the thread have said that you have chosen to ignore when you have no clue how the events of 9/11 have affected them then.
Edit: oh, I included SE's comment because I'm sure my explanation falls exactly into his description of obtuse and 2 dimensional and I couldn't be more delighted that I can condemn what happened without reservation.
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