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Zimmerman made a threatening move before being struck [W:815]

The problem is that there are inconsistencies in Zimmerman's own account.

Before getting out of his car ... the number of times he told the 911 dispatcher he lost sight of Trayvon? Once. The number of times he told police the next day? Three.

The number of times he told the 911 dispatcher Trayvon circled his car? Zero. The number of times he told police the next day? Once.

On the night of the shooting, he told a detective Trayvon emerged from some bushes ... the next day he told officer Serino he didn't see where Trayvon emerged from.

And perhaps his biggest problem ... his claim that he simultaneously pinned Trayvon's hand against his body while grabbing his gun is physically impossible without first releasing Trayvon's hand. He lied.

Nobody is going to understand what George did until they can grasp that vigilantes are narcissistic sociopaths.. They make their own rules and ignore the ones they don't like.
 
I didn't get your words mixed up with someone else. I said, "You people".
 
So, are you going to be on record to tell Excon he was wrong to call Zimmerman's wounds as "gashing wounds"?
 

Ridiculous logic.
 
Of course you didn't mention "Trayvon had his hand covering Zimmerman's bleeding nose". That's the point. You were evading my point about that claim of his that was disproven by the forensic evidence.
 
Instead of addressing the above point, you evade that into a small cut on Zimmerman's face which wasn't even in debate. Why can't you be honest for a change? While you are at it, try to be logical and make some sense in your rebuttal also.
 
 

Go back to your post #723:
 
http://www.debatepolitics.com/zimme...e-being-struck-w-815-a-73.html#post1060672894
 
Previously I said:
 
"We are not just talking about simple punching. We are talking about repeated punching and head slamming with 50% of the head covered in blood and Trayvon's hands were said to cover his broken nose and grabbed his bloody head."
 
In your reply, you didn't address my point about "repeated punching and head slamming with 50% of the head covered in blood and Trayvon's hands were said to cover his broken nose and grabbed his bloody head." You didn't even dare to address the nose covering part. Instead, you evaded and said:
 
"As you can see from the photos posted, the cut on the front of his face was extremely small compared to the total size of his face... That leads to a very great amount of space that can be touched without blood transfer. A cut that small is not going to be spurting blood like the episode of Beavis and Butthead when they accidentally chop Beavis's finger off or anything.

Obviously, the cuts on the back of his head were on the back of his head..... and not facing Trayvon. Nobody is claiming he was bleeding PROFUSELY, losing pints at a time or anything like that."
 
 
I didn't asked you about the "estremely small" cut in front of his face. Why did you purposely evade the pertinent one in front of his face which I did mention, i.e. his bleeding broken nose that was said to be covered by Trayvon's hand? That was the whole argument but you just convieniently set up a strawman to make your case as a desperate attemopt at evasion.
 
 
 

You people = you, Excon, zoko, etc = Zimmerman supporters. Oh, also that blind supporter of yours who whined about "anti-TM evidence", which are all fairy tales of course.
 
This was what I said:


"You people simply want to ignore forensic science and logic at all cost to defend your ground for Zimmerman."
 
On that point alone you and Excon, zoko and other Zimmerman supporters on this board do agree unanimously by ignoring and dismissing or trying to explain away the inconsistency in Zimmerman's account of Trayvon covering his bleeding nose with his hand that was not supported by forensic finding of no Zimmerman's blood found on Trayvon's hands or sleeve cuffs.
 
There are many inconsistencies in Zimmerman's accounts. But this is just one of them we are addressing right now.
 
 

 
I don't have a TV to watch anything let alone CSI. I don't even like watching CSI or any make believe ER show. If I have access to a TV, I'd like to watch real life crime report not from someone's imaginative scripts.
 
Talk about you being a police office and looking at real evidence, just tell me: How is it possible to have Trayvon's hand pressing hard against Zimmerman's bleeding broken nose and yet had no trace of blood in his hand? We are not even talking about his other hand covering Zimmerman's screaming mouth and many other inconsistencies and contradictions.
 
When you have to explain away the impossible events of not just one inconsistency, not even just two, not three, not four and not five but many more, there is something wrong not only in Zimmerman's claims but something is also seriously wrong with you people.
Holy ****. Talk about crying.

First of all you misquoted me. I never said "gashing wounds".
Let me google that for you


Since this is what you started with, it is enough to just dismiss anything else you say.

But what is funny is that you do not attempt to show my usage of the word wrong by providing any source.
Guess what, you could have. Yet you didn't.
Figures I would have to prove myself wrong. :doh

gash (gsh)
tr.v. gashed, gash·ing, gash·es
To make a long deep cut in; slash deeply.
n.
1. A long deep cut.
2. A deep flesh wound.​
gash - definition of gash by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Although the injury is deep for a scalp wound, I will not get into debating the "length" as being long because that can be comparably subjective.
That would be actual semantics.

So from this point forward I will not call it a gash.

See how easy it is to prove someone wrong? Duh! And I had to do it to my self.
lol

It is still a split in the skin.


Anyways.
You go on to lament about 50% of his face being covered in blood. lol
We have seen the pictures. That description is inaccurate.

Secondly you have failed to show he was bleeding at that point in time, or that Trayvon's hand would have come in contact with blood.
Your argument fails.
It fails be cause all you have are assumptions.

It is not us who are ignoring forensic science (lol), but you.

Prove there was blood where Trayvon placed his hands at that point in time.
 
really? then tell us how zimmerman doubled back
i look forward to seeing that evidence as well as the post where some member asserted martin possessed fewer rights than zimmerman

your posts are becoming more and more muddled and confused; everything alright on your end?

Zimmerman states that he got out of his truck and walked thru from Twin Trees to Retreat View Circle to get an address for the police.

Then he turns around and walks back towards Twin Trees where his car is parked and at the T .. Trayvon jumps out of the bushes.

We know that's a lie because the neighbors heard a loud argument before the cries for help started... and Dee was on the phone with Trayvon when he asked George, Why are you following me?

Many posters blame Trayvon for not going home quickly enough.. but IMO Trayvon cannot be held accountable for any of the decisions George made that night because he didn't know what was going on ... or that George had pegged him as a criminal burglar.

Trayvon was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.. Could have happened to my son or yours.

George is a narcissist and a sociopath.. If you don't recognize that now, you will in time... and I'll still be wondering how the h*ll left handed George pulled his gun from a right side IWB with the butt facing forward with Trayvon sitting on his chest..
 
Zimmerman states that he got out of his truck and walked thru from Twin Trees to Retreat View Circle to get an address for the police.

Then he turns around and walks back towards Twin Trees where his car is parked and at the T .. Trayvon jumps out of the bushes.

We know that's a lie because the neighbors heard a loud argument before the cries for help started... and Dee was on the phone with Trayvon when he asked George, Why are you following me?

Many posters blame Trayvon for not going home quickly enough.. but IMO Trayvon cannot be held accountable for any of the decisions George made that night because he didn't know what was going on ... or that George had pegged him as a criminal burglar.

Trayvon was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.. Could have happened to my son or yours.

George is a narcissist and a sociopath.. If you don't recognize that now, you will in time... and I'll still be wondering how the h*ll left handed George pulled his gun from a right side IWB with the butt facing forward with Trayvon sitting on his chest..
When Trayvon was surrounded by 4 walls at the police station, he recalled the night's events from memory and recalled Trayvon jumping from some bushes.

When he returned to the scene the next day to do a walk through with police and he saw there were no bushes near the intersection of the two pathways, he changed his story regarding the bushes.
 
When George was surrounded by 4 walls at the police station, he recalled the night's events from memory and recalled Trayvon jumping from some bushes.

When he returned to the scene the next day to do a walk through with police and he saw there were no bushes near the intersection of the two pathways, he changed his story regarding the bushes.

LOLO

Engles communities never have Lush landscaping.. its very minimalist.. But anyone can look at the slideshow and decide for themselves.

The "bushes" were a low hedge against the buildings... maybe 30 inches at most.
 
George is lying about having his head slammed on concrete and he's lying about taking 24 punches.. The Medical evidence and testimony is conclusive.

George is also lying about Trayvon coming back and circling his car... and he's lying about Trayvon "doubling back" and waiting in ambush.

These are important details... George wants to convince people that he was a victim. He's not... He's a dummy with a gun... and now a boy is dead.

I assume you will provide us with some definitive evidence that proves that he is lying, right?
 
Well then you suck pretty bad a profiling. I once again, for the second time, thank my stars that you aren't police in my area of NC. You'd have to pull over every other ****ing car since anything remotely hinting towards hip hop means they might be jumping someone! LOL

Way to hone your police skills, bro!
Are you making assumptions again?

I claimed it wouldn't be hard to believe. In this context, believinga story told by someone else.

Please prove your ASSumption that I would accuse someone without evidence other than hip-hop music (which BTW, you provided much more than that in your explanation of yourself... I found the comment about how people would be talking about a fight you got into most moving).

This is just too easy. You take a single comment and then you add to it from your own mind and make an accusation. Not surprising though, considering what you've mentioned in this thread about yourself.

I challenge you to provide proof from my words only, not from your assumptions of my words (assumptions based upon a bias you need to get checked out), that I stop people or profile people based upon their use of hip-hop music alone. Any dodging or deflection will be pointed out.

Thank you.

Also, where is the proof I called him a nigger?


THis is not about no_limit_nigga's dressing, its about no_limit_nigga's criminal threat.

All that matters LEGALLY is whether no_limit_nigga's physical attack on Mr. Zimmerman caused him to reasonably fear serious bodily injury.

Stay on topic
Can't we go back to calling him Trayvon? I know you are trying to push buttons, but for whatever reason *I* am taking the flak for your repeated use of the term.


I didn't get your words mixed up with someone else. I said, "You people".
WHAT DO YOU MEAN.... "YOU PEOPLE" ?? Racists I swear... SMH.
 

So, are you going to be on record to tell Excon he was wrong to call Zimmerman's wounds as "gashing wounds"?
As often as you misrepresent what people said, I'm not going to go there. You should address what Excon said in a reply to Excon. Not to me.

 

Ridiculous logic.
 
Of course you didn't mention "Trayvon had his hand covering Zimmerman's bleeding nose". That's the point. You were evading my point about that claim of his that was disproven by the forensic evidence.
 
Instead of addressing the above point, you evade that into a small cut on Zimmerman's face which wasn't even in debate. Why can't you be honest for a change? While you are at it, try to be logical and make some sense in your rebuttal also.
Ive never made such a claim, so I don't understand why you are addressing that particular problem with ME. Reply to who said it. Also, do you have a copy of this "forensic evidence" that you speak of? Have you interviewed the forensics team who is surely going to put on a great display of evidence (not) in this case? Or are you assuming that a lack of information, or in this case, a lack of blood transfer automatically means something when it doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does?

 
 

Go back to your post #723:
 
http://www.debatepolitics.com/zimme...e-being-struck-w-815-a-73.html#post1060672894
 
Previously I said:
 
"We are not just talking about simple punching. We are talking about repeated punching and head slamming with 50% of the head covered in blood and Trayvon's hands were said to cover his broken nose and grabbed his bloody head."
Where did you get the 50% number?

 
In your reply, you didn't address my point about "repeated punching and head slamming with 50% of the head covered in blood and Trayvon's hands were said to cover his broken nose and grabbed his bloody head." You didn't even dare to address the nose covering part. Instead, you evaded and said:
 
"As you can see from the photos posted, the cut on the front of his face was extremely small compared to the total size of his face... That leads to a very great amount of space that can be touched without blood transfer. A cut that small is not going to be spurting blood like the episode of Beavis and Butthead when they accidentally chop Beavis's finger off or anything.

Obviously, the cuts on the back of his head were on the back of his head..... and not facing Trayvon. Nobody is claiming he was bleeding PROFUSELY, losing pints at a time or anything like that."
Exactly. Because I didn't come up with the 50% number, nor did I agree with it, I explained how your number is most likely WRONG. However, you took this as evasion because you couldn't fathom the thought that the 50% number you pulled out of your rectum was incorrect.

 
 
I didn't asked you about the "estremely small" cut in front of his face. Why did you purposely evade the pertinent one in front of his face which I did mention, i.e. his bleeding broken nose that was said to be covered by Trayvon's hand? That was the whole argument but you just convieniently set up a strawman to make your case as a desperate attemopt at evasion.
Because you are confronting me with information that I have no knowledge about, ie the "Covering hand" part. Its not my dog to fight. To reply to someone else about it.

 
 
 

You people = you, Excon, zoko, etc = Zimmerman supporters. Oh, also that blind supporter of yours who whined about "anti-TM evidence", which are all fairy tales of course.
We know what you really mean.......... Non-Liberal Whites.
 

This was what I said:


"You people simply want to ignore forensic science and logic at all cost to defend your ground for Zimmerman."
 
On that point alone you and Excon, zoko and other Zimmerman supporters on this board do agree unanimously by ignoring and dismissing or trying to explain away the inconsistency in Zimmerman's account of Trayvon covering his bleeding nose with his hand that was not supported by forensic finding of no Zimmerman's blood found on Trayvon's hands or sleeve cuffs.
As I have stated before. Its not a guarantee. I had to control a lady's head during an arrest when she had blood all over it, yet I got no blood on my gloves/hands/anywhere else while she twisted and writhed around. I must have been lying about the whole thing right? Wrong. Its not a guarantee.

 
There are many inconsistencies in Zimmerman's accounts. But this is just one of them we are addressing right now.
There are inconsistencies for those who are looking really ****ing hard for them. There are ALWAYS going to be small, minor, inconsistencies in any retelling of a story. That is how the human memory works. This is WHY investigators do multiple interviews with someone about the same story. Those of us who know and understand that aren't making a big stink about it. Those who are looking for anything to say, "AHHH -HAH!!!!!!!" will.

 
I don't have a TV to watch anything let alone CSI. I don't even like watching CSI or any make believe ER show. If I have access to a TV, I'd like to watch real life crime report not from someone's imaginative scripts.
 
Talk about you being a police office and looking at real evidence, just tell me: How is it possible to have Trayvon's hand pressing hard against Zimmerman's bleeding broken nose and yet had no trace of blood in his hand? We are not even talking about his other hand covering Zimmerman's screaming mouth and many other inconsistencies and contradictions.
Its possible because blood transfer does not always occur, blood doesn't instantly start spurting out of a wound if the wound is small. Often small cuts start out slowly and then build over time. There are WAYYY too many "Unknowns" about the scenario you bring up for anything to be definitive. How can you not see that?

 
When you have to explain away the impossible events of not just one inconsistency, not even just two, not three, not four and not five but many more, there is something wrong not only in Zimmerman's claims but something is also seriously wrong with you people.
 
 
 
 
WHAT DO YOU MEAN..... "YOU PEOPLE" ??

And, like I have said before, there will always be minor inconsistencies. Especially for those who aren't thinking things through enough to realize the difference.

Sometimes people speak "un-literally". They use terms like "he popped out of the bushes" when they don't mean LITERALLY BUSHES. Sometimes people explain to 911 that a person walked their direction and then walked away, without describing the pattern of their walk, while later using the term "circled" to describe it.....

These things mean little to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

If you have something vital to bring up, by all means do. But these "what if" scenarios like the blood above which isn't a guarantee, and the "But he said circle and not square! OMFG!" bull**** has to stop.
 
Can't we go back to calling him Trayvon? I know you are trying to push buttons, but for whatever reason *I* am taking the flak for your repeated use of the term.

It served its purpose. The poster with, the "George killed me" avatar was forced to remove it.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire...:peace
 
Then, as you can see, I wouldn't have a hard time believing that you jumped on someone and continued beating them while they screamed for help.

Context my friend..... instead of getting all emotional about my use of Martin's own Twitter handle as a way of conveying a reason behind a belief of mine, how about you go back right now and look at the context in which I used the dreaded handle that has your blood boiling and your mouth salivating.


From your above description, it is easy enough to believe you would have beat on, and continued beating on someone while they screamed for help. I don't recall specifically using the word thug earlier, But yes, I do believe he was a "thug" in some way shape or form, even if it was a "wannabe" thug, or just someone who idolized "thug life".


Wait.... Didn't you just speak earlier about your "superior logic".

Then maybe you can use your superior logic to quote me having called Trayvon Martin a nigger. I thank you in advance for your concession.

This post sums up my thoughts on this whole thing way better than I can articulate, and I will now refrain from further posting in these threads. Thank you times a million Caine.
 
As often as you misrepresent what people said, I'm not going to go there. You should address what Excon said in a reply to Excon. Not to me.
Yeah! What he said! lol
And, I already addressed it.


Also, do you have a copy of this "forensic evidence" that you speak of? Have you interviewed the forensics team who is surely going to put on a great display of evidence (not) in this case?
Of course he dosen't.
All he has is an over active and wild imagination.


Its possible because blood transfer does not always occur, blood doesn't instantly start spurting out of a wound if the wound is small. Often small cuts start out slowly and then build over time. There are WAYYY too many "Unknowns" about the scenario you bring up for anything to be definitive. How can you not see that?
Sadly, just something they refuse to understand.



There are inconsistencies for those who are looking really ****ing hard for them. There are ALWAYS going to be small, minor, inconsistencies in any retelling of a story. That is how the human memory works. This is WHY investigators do multiple interviews with someone about the same story. Those of us who know and understand that aren't making a big stink about it. Those who are looking for anything to say, "AHHH -HAH!!!!!!!" will.
I really wish they could understand this.
They just don't.




Sometimes people speak "un-literally". They use terms like "he popped out of the bushes" when they don't mean LITERALLY BUSHES. Sometimes people explain to 911 that a person walked their direction and then walked away, without describing the pattern of their walk, while later using the term "circled" to describe it.....

These things mean little to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Sharon has been informed many times that Zimmerman could have seen the bushes in the area where Trayvon came from and simply described it as Trayvon's coming from the bushes.


If Trayvon came from any of the areas where an arrow is, the bushes comment is explained.

crine_4.jpg
 
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I assume you will provide us with some definitive evidence that proves that he is lying, right?

I saw a demonstration of pounding someone's head on concrete for a minute.. George would have been dead, Caine... Instead his injuries are minor.
 
It served its purpose. The poster with, the "George killed me" avatar was forced to remove it.

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire...:peace
I think I was one of the main instigators of using it. I began using that name in response to a group of people who kept referring to TM as an innocent 'child'. I kept posting along as I normally would, only changing the name. The trick was for me to not make a big deal out of my using it. It had to be subtle to get the point across.

Evidently, from the amount of flame Cain's been getting, the message was well received even by those who hid it's impact at the time.

As you said, the purpose of using it was to essentially fight fire with fire. It served it's purpose and I'm don with it...unless and until folks go back to painting TM as an innocent 'child'...
 
Are you making assumptions again?


 
 

Where did you get the 50% number?

 
Exactly. Because I didn't come up with the 50% number, nor did I agree with it, I explained how your number is most likely WRONG. However, you took this as evasion because you couldn't fathom the thought that the 50% number you pulled out of your rectum was incorrect.

 
 
 
Its possible because blood transfer does not always occur, blood doesn't instantly start spurting out of a wound if the wound is small. Often small cuts start out slowly and then build over time. There are WAYYY too many "Unknowns" about the scenario you bring up for anything to be definitive. How can you not see that?

 

WHAT DO YOU MEAN..... "YOU PEOPLE" ??

And, like I have said before, there will always be minor inconsistencies. Especially for those who aren't thinking things through enough to realize the difference.

Sometimes people speak "un-literally". They use terms like "he popped out of the bushes" when they don't mean LITERALLY BUSHES. Sometimes people explain to 911 that a person walked their direction and then walked away, without describing the pattern of their walk, while later using the term "circled" to describe it.....

These things mean little to nothing in the grand scheme of things.

If you have something vital to bring up, by all means do. But these "what if" scenarios like the blood above which isn't a guarantee, and the "But he said circle and not square! OMFG!" bull**** has to stop.

EMT Kevin O'Rourke testified during Zimmerman's bond hearing this morning that "45 percent" of Zimmerman's head had blood on it and that ...

EMT Kevin O'Rourke: "45%" of Zimmerman's head covered in blood, nose broken - Democratic Underground
 
I saw a demonstration of pounding someone's head on concrete for a minute.. George would have been dead, Caine... Instead his injuries are minor.
You did?
How interesting.
Was the person doing the pounding Trayvon?

It wasn't?

Pffft!
Means nothing.


EMT Kevin O'Rourke testified during Zimmerman's bond hearing this morning that "45 percent" of Zimmerman's head had blood on it and that ...

EMT Kevin O'Rourke: "45%" of Zimmerman's head covered in blood, nose broken - Democratic Underground
And as already stated; "We have seen the pictures. That description is inaccurate."

Secondly, nobody has proven that he had that amount of blood on him when Trayvon used his hands to try and silence Zimmerman.
 
And as already stated; "We have seen the pictures. That description is inaccurate."

Secondly, nobody has proven that he had that amount of blood on him when Trayvon used his hands to try and silence Zimmerman.

Well, head wounds, even minor ones usually bleed alot. .. and the EMTs indicate that GZ also had a bloody nose. We have testimony from the EMTs and George's doctor..

Remember GZ said TM was bashing his head on the sidewalk until he thought it would explode.

When you read or watch George's account, do you get the impression that the whole of the encounter was about George being on his back and Trayvon pounding him?
 
Well, head wounds, even minor ones usually bleed alot. .. and the EMTs indicate that GZ also had a bloody nose. We have testimony from the EMTs and George's doctor..
Not always immediately.
And if you are on your back the blood may not be coming out from the nose, immediately.
Or are you forgetting the length of time involved in this whole scenario?
The blood from his nose may not have started coming out until after he was able to get in an upright position.
Most likely he swallowed a great deal.
You folks just don't think.



Remember GZ said TM was bashing his head on the sidewalk until he thought it would explode.
It is like you don't even read what you write.

What he thought!
 
Not always immediately.
And if you are on your back the blood may not be coming out from the nose, immediately.
Or are you forgetting the length of time involved in this whole scenario?
The blood from his nose may not have started coming out until after he was able to get in an upright position.
Most likely he swallowed a great deal.
You folks just don't think.




It is like you don't even read what you write.

What he thought!

OK.. so George didn't bleed until he stood up.

IMO George was an adult with a gun.. and his motivation was to protect the neighborhood from suspicious persons and burglars.. Right so far?

George must have had some expectation of outcome... the police would arrive and question this teenager and then the police would do whatever they thought best..

Probably would have been to walk TM home and speak to Chad.. maybe get Trayvon's dad's phone number.

So what went so wrong that this kid coming home from the 7-11 ended up shot to death?
 
If Trayvon came from any of the areas where an arrow is, the bushes comment is explained.

crine_4.jpg

Your desperation is wasted as Zimmerman described where he first saw Trayvon just prior to the confrontation ... and it wasn't where those arrows point.

It was on the walkway.

The fact is ... Zimmerman changed his story.
 
Your desperation is wasted as Zimmerman described where he first saw Trayvon just prior to the confrontation ... and it wasn't where those arrows point.

It was on the walkway.

The fact is ... Zimmerman changed his story.

Perhaps Excon has a different world view..... and doesn't think people should be held accountable when they THINK someone is a dangerous person... and go after them with a loaded gun.

I too have a world view.. that people who carry have a very high standard of responsibility.
 
Your desperation is wasted as Zimmerman described where he first saw Trayvon just prior to the confrontation ... and it wasn't where those arrows point.

It was on the walkway.

The fact is ... Zimmerman changed his story.
It is your desperation that is noted and wasted.
It doesn't have to be that specific row of homes does it?
No it doesn't.
And it also doesn't mean that he didn't come from that specific row of homes either.
He described him as coming from where again?... so can your asininity.
 
Basically, your goal is to just keep saying no limit nigga as much as possible? Great job, man. You're a ****ing class act.

Why you got a problem with us calling him no limit nigga when he named HIMSELF no limit nigga?
 
No, you have it wrong.

I don't' care for crackpot, paranoid conspiracy theorists.

I consider it to be one of two things.. Ignorance or mental illness.
 
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