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Your thoughts about Chile's Pinochet, 40 years after the coup.

What type of dicator was Pinochet

  • Total voters
    12
Camlon said:
Pinochet was not really a good leader, but he was better than the alternative. I really don't think Allende was a proper democrat either. Or else they could have just waited for another three years and kicked him out. He was similar to Chavez who only believe in Democracy in terms of voting, but then thinks that gives him the right to control freedom of speech, and the courts.

So Pinochet prevented Allende from destroying the country, but Chile living standards only improved significantly when Pinochet got replaced with Patricio Aylwin, a more moderate leader.
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Um when did Allende control freedom of speech and the courts....
 
jag2594 said:
Do you have a link ?
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Sure
1973 Chilean coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  • ruling by decree, thwarting the normal legislative system
  • refusing to enforce judicial decisions against its partisans
  • ignoring the decrees of the independent General Comptroller's Office
  • sundry media offences; usurping control of the National Television Network and applying ... economic pressure against those media organizations that are not unconditional supporters of the government...
  • allowing its socialist supporters to assemble armed, preventing the same by its right wing opponents
  • . . . supporting more than 1,500 illegal ‘takings’ of farms...
  • illegal repression of the El Teniente miners’ strike
  • illegally limiting emigration
 
jag2594 said:
And I guess you didn't read any of my post that counter that accusation. Read the whole thread...then we can talk...
Click to expand...

I don't see any posts where you argue against what I cited, apart from the absolutely ridiculous excuse that it was all US fault. That's the same excuse we always hear from socialists when their policies fail.
 
Camlon said:
Sure
1973 Chilean coup d'état - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  • ruling by decree, thwarting the normal legislative system
  • refusing to enforce judicial decisions against its partisans
  • ignoring the decrees of the independent General Comptroller's Office
  • sundry media offences; usurping control of the National Television Network and applying ... economic pressure against those media organizations that are not unconditional supporters of the government...
  • allowing its socialist supporters to assemble armed, preventing the same by its right wing opponents
  • . . . supporting more than 1,500 illegal ‘takings’ of farms...
  • illegal repression of the El Teniente miners’ strike
  • illegally limiting emigration
Click to expand...


*Laughs*

Christian Democrats and National Party members

It was called the land reform... Frei did the same thing *laughs*

If he want to create a totalitarian..he could have...

Again unless you can directly cite something that said allende controlled freedom of speech and the courts. Then its not evidence...The christian democrats were preparing for the coup..
 
jag2594 said:
*laughs*

Um Nixon said he wanted to make chiles economy scream.....

"Make the Economy Scream": Secret Documents Show Nixon, Kissinger Role Backing 1973 Chile Coup - YouTube

Wow dude....
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No, its just pathetic. You really think Nixon cared that much about Chile, that he would bother flooding the copper market. Sorry, but US did not have one tits towards Chile, their focus was the Vietnam war and there was China, North Korea, Cuba. etc. that they hated more.Also, there was many pro US countries who relied on copper as well. In fact many cities in the US got hurt by the copper market crash.

The price of copper during Pinnochet as well. How do you explain that? If US was that heavily invested in getting Pinochet in power, then they should have stopped flooding the market. It was a just a normal price bubble, not an American conspiracy towards Chile.

Its kind of pathetic how socialists accuse the US of all their mistakes. If US is that successful that they can crush any country the like, then why not adopt the American model?
 
Camlon said:
No, its just pathetic. You really think Nixon cared that much about Chile, that he would bother flooding the copper market. Sorry, but US did not have one tits towards Chile, their focus was the Vietnam war and there was China, North Korea, Cuba. etc. that they hated more.Also, there was many pro US countries who relied on copper as well. In fact many cities in the US got hurt by the copper market crash.

The price of copper during Pinnochet as well. How do you explain that? If US was that heavily invested in getting Pinochet in power, then they should have stopped flooding the market. It was a just a normal price bubble, not an American conspiracy towards Chile.

Its kind of pathetic how socialists accuse the US of all their mistakes. If US is that successful that they can crush any country the like, then why not adopt the American model?
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Wow dude....

Did you even listen to the video.....The CIA funded the coup, that is a fact....

Nixon motivation wanted to stop the spread of socialism....Stop living in a bubble.

here is another video you can listen too

"Make the Economy Scream": Secret Documents Show Nixon, Kissinger Role Backing 1973 Chile Coup | Democracy Now!

I guess you support dictators...not even conservatives think so low...

With respect to your earlier comment about Chile in the 1970s and what happened with Mr. Allende, it is not a part of American history that we're proud of.
Colin Powell

Colin Powell: U.S. "Not Proud" of 1973 Covert Action in Chile
 
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jag2594 said:
*Laughs*

Christian Democrats and National Party members

It was called the land reform... Frei did the same thing *laughs*

If he want to create a totalitarian..he could have...

Again unless you can directly cite something that said allende controlled freedom of speech and the courts. Then its not evidence...The christian democrats were preparing for the coup..
Click to expand...

If it was all lies, then why is it so specific?

He just did what all the other socialist leaders are doing. I see no reason why I should believe you, instead of the opposition. Think logically, if they could campaign fairly and the courts worked normally, then why would they need to coup.

Remember Christian Democrats initially supported the government. So why would they later support a coup?
 
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jag2594 said:
Wow dude....

Did you even listen to the video.....The CIA funded the coup, that is a fact....
Click to expand...
How is that related to copper prices.

Nixon motivation was to stop the spread of socialism....Stop living in a bubble.
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Sure, and that was a good thing. But Nixon did not have one tits towards Chile, and would not bother to crash the copper market to damage Chile. A country who had 10 million people.

here is another video you can listen too
Click to expand...
I am not watching any videos. If there is something interesting they say, then just write it here.

I guess you support dictators...not even conservatives think so low...
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Now you are putting words in my mouth. You are sinking lower.
 
Camlon said:
If it was all lies, then why is it so specific?

He just did what all the other socialist leaders are doing. I see no reason why I should believe you, instead of the opposition. Think logically, if they could campaign fairly and the courts worked normally, then why would they need to coup. Remember Christian Democrats initially supported the government. So why would they later support a coup?
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No he didn't...it was a democracy.It was by popular vote....he never killed anyone in the name of socialism. He wasn't like Pinochet who killed hundreds in the name of capitalism...

Again....Nixon wanted to stop the spread of socialism/marxism...

Because they didn't want marxism...

Unless you can provide evidence allende controlled freedom of speech and the courts.Then enough said..
 
jag2594 said:
No he didn't...it was a democracy.It was by popular vote....he never killed anyone in the name of socialism. He wasn't like Pinochet who killed hundreds in the name of capitalism...

Again....Nixon wanted to stop the spread of socialism/marxism...

Because they didn't want marxism...

Unless you can provide evidence allende controlled freedom of speech and the courts.Then enough said..
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I see no arguments of substance here. You have not explained why US would care so much about a country with only 10 million people, that they would crash the global copper prices. Don't forget, US was producing copper too and many cities in the US got destroyed due to the copper crash.

What I smell is conspiracy, because you don't want to admit the failures of the Allende government was due to Allende.

Unless you can provide evidence allende controlled freedom of speech and the courts.Then enough said..
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I just did, but you only accept Allende backed sources.
 
Camlon said:
How is that related to copper prices.


Sure, and that was a good thing. But Nixon did not have one tits towards Chile, and would not bother to crash the copper market to damage Chile. A country who had 10 million people.


I am not watching any videos. If there is something interesting they say, then just write it here.


Now you are putting words in my mouth. You are sinking lower.
Click to expand...


Ok....nixon wanted to destroy the copper market because it was one their largest export...


He said he wanted to destroy allende and the economy..directly


Dude...HE said directly he wanted to destroy the economy and remove allende....it was part of the White House audio tapes. You remember, the ones that they caught him...

Um no.. by defending pinochet you agree with his policies.

I don't need any anti-communism rhetoric... I have facts you don't case close...
 
Camlon said:
I see no arguments of substance here. You have not explained why US would care so much about a country with only 10 million people, that they would crash the global copper prices. Don't forget, US was producing copper too and many cities in the US got destroyed due to the copper crash.

What I smell is conspiracy, because you don't want to admit the failures of the Allende government was due to Allende.


I just did, but you only accept Allende backed sources.
Click to expand...

Nixon wanted to stop the spread of socialism...by saying he wanted to destroy the economy of chile in the videos I provide

Conspiracy....LOL you don't read any of my links do you.. COlin Powell was a republican and he even said it was not a proud moment....

No you provide wikipedia...you could at least provide the links from it LOl
 
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jag2594 said:
Ok....nixon wanted to destroy the copper market because it was one their largest export...


He said he wanted to destroy allende and the economy..directly


Dude...HE said directly he wanted to destroy the economy and remove allende....it was part of the White House audio tapes. You remember, the ones that they caught him...
Click to expand...
So...? that US wanted remove Allende does not mean they have one tits for him. Seriously, Chile was a country with 10 million people. Chile is not that important for the US. It's always funny how crackpot socialists think US care so much about them, in reality US was much more interested in Europe, China, Japan, and Vietnam.

And if US was so interested in removing Allende that they would flood the copper market, then why did the prices drop under Pinochet too. Why would they keep flooding the market after they have finished the coup?


Um no.. by defending pinochet you agree with his policies.
Click to expand...
Except I haven't defended him, I am just saying he was better than the alternative.
 
Camlon said:
So...? that US wanted remove Allende does not mean they have one tits for him. Seriously, Chile was a country with 10 million people. Chile is not that important for the US. It's always funny how crackpot socialists think US care so much about them, in reality US was much more interested in Europe, China, Japan, and Vietnam.

And if US was so interested in removing Allende that they would flood the copper market, then why did the prices drop under Pinochet too. Why would they keep flooding the market after they have finished the coup?



Except I haven't defended him, I am just saying he was better than the alternative.
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Americans own the copper mines before allende came in and nationalized it.


And yet they stilled intervened......IF chile wasn't important why did they intervene. Do you deny that the CIA funded the coup ?

Because nixon wanted to stop the spread of socialism...

And yet allende didn't kill anyone....Of course...it doesn't matter to you of the thousands of lives gone missing and killed. I was in Austria ten years later and they made movies about the coup....The real authoritative state was the capitalist...
 
jag2594 said:
Do you deny U.S intervention In Chile in 1973 ?
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No, I deny your copper conspiracy. US do not have one tits towards Chile. Sure, they could help out with a coup, but they are not going to flood the copper market just to hurt Allende.

Again, Chile was a country with 10 million people. Chile was not that important for the US.
 
Camlon said:
No, I deny your copper conspiracy. US do not have one tits towards Chile. Sure, they could help out with a coup, but they are not going to flood the copper market just to hurt Allende.

Again, Chile was a country with 10 million people. Chile was not that important for the US.
Click to expand...


They why did they intervene...

Um...did you hear the white house video tapes where nixon said he wanted to make the chile economy scream...or are you a denier.
 
jag2594 said:
Americans own the copper mines before allende came in and nationalized it.

And yet they stilled intervened......IF chile wasn't important why did they intervene. Do you deny that the CIA funded the coup ?
Click to expand...
US intervened in a lot of countries. However, not even for the USSR did they try to crash the markets. I am not saying US did not help with the coup, I am saying your copper conspiracy is an excuse so you don't have to admit the failures of Allende.


And yet allende didn't kill anyone....
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I am sure that's not true, but I don't see your point. How does that support the copper conspiracy theory?
 
Camlon said:
To end this copper consipracy. This was world demand for copper
http://www.aqmcopper.com/i/misc/world_copper_demand.jpg
It increased under the 70s.

This was US production of copper
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...220px-US_Primary_Copper_Production_v2.svg.png
I see no surge in production.

So how exactly did US reduce the world price of copper?
Click to expand...



No..The U.S sold off part of its copper holdings...to depress the major export of chile..Again you have no evidence for your argument...
 
Camlon said:
US intervened in a lot of countries. However, not even for the USSR did they try to crash the markets. I am not saying US did not help with the coup, I am saying your copper conspiracy is an excuse so you don't have to admit the failures of Allende.



I am sure that's not true, but I don't see your point. How does that support the copper conspiracy theory?
Click to expand...


Um...did you hear the white house video tapes where nixon said he wanted to make the chile economy scream...or are you a denier.

No he didn't...It would have been an authoritative which it wasn't..

There is no conspiracy...Nixon said himself he wanted to make the chilean economy scream...Are you a denier...
 
jag2594 said:
They why did they intervene...
Click to expand...
Helping a coup cost a lot less than crashing the world demand for copper.

Um...did you hear the white house video tapes where nixon said he wanted to make the chile economy scream...or are you a denier.
Click to expand...
Now you are making up stories. He never said he wanted to make the "chilean economy scream". He said they want to stop Allende from taking power.

That US did not like the Allende government is common knowledge. However, you are claiming there was a copper consipracy, where US would flood the copper market to destroy the Allende government, but all the evidence are against you.
1. Chile is a small country with 10 million people, its not that important that they want to crash the global copper market.
2. Prices dropped under Pinochet too. If the price drop happen just to get Pinochet in power, then why didn't increase afterwards
3. US production of copper did not massively increase and the world demand stayed high.

Your copper conspiracy is just an excuse, because you know that without it, then the economical problems under Allende was the fault of Allende.
 
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