Your feelings on S.A.L.T.?

[eohrnberger]

Whether their state or local taxes are too high is irrelevant. The average New Yorker pays 2 to 3 times as much in federal taxes to the federal government than most residents of other states pay in. To then tell them, despite that, despite the fact they already disproportionately fund the federal government, they can't deduct their state and local taxes, isn't fair and you know it.

Its pretty easy to cut state and local taxes when your residents get back more in spending from the federal government than they pay in.

Aren't you now arguing against the progressive nature which the US federal tax code has designed into it?

 

[BirdinHand]

Each state and local government controls their own tax rates

And LOTS of bright red places aren’t pulling their fair share of the weight and rely on the tax money from blue states to fund them.

Grab those bootstraps and fund their own shit and stop relying on MY money to do it.

I hope the blue state congress critters hold the line on SALT exemptions.

Time for the red states to stop being federal welfare states and pay their own god damned way.

My SALT is high because my state pays more of our own way. Time for those red states to increase their SALT so they don’t need MY money to pay for THEIR shit.

 

[L88]

The GOP raised the federal tax burden of taxpayers in states that do what the GOP ostensibly wants, self-funding more of their own health care, education, and safety net expenses.

Yep. Wealthy people.
What was Kamala's new tax plan? Tax unrealized gains? Shit, Trump is giving them a break.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It isn’t the individual recipients in as much as it is the overall amount of federal tax dollars received.

Lower SALT in states = those states get more funding for schools, roads, infrastructure, etc

And that funding comes from blue states

Texas - for example - receives $300+ MORE per student in federal funding for their public schools than NJ does.

Why isn’t Texas paying more money to fund their own schools? Why am *I* paying to fund not only NJ public schools but also fund MORE per student in TX than in NJ from the federal government?

Mississippi gets $1K/student MORE.

I’m tired of paying welfare to states who vote for “state rights” and a smaller federal government.

They want “state rights” and a smaller federal government - then do it and stop taking my federal tax money to fund what they should be funding in a state basis.

The median annual household income in TX is $41,661 and is $48,523 in NJ which is $6,862 (16%) higher - the 4th highest among the 50 states. The median household annual income in MS is $27,205 - the lowest of any state. The idea that lower income states should raise their state’s taxes and get less federal aid isn’t supported by many people outside of the richer states.

Median Household Income by State 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[eohrnberger]

And LOTS of bright red places aren’t pulling their fair share of the weight and rely on the tax money from blue states to fund them.

Grab those bootstraps and fund their own shit and stop relying on MY money to do it.

I hope the blue state congress critters hold the line on SALT exemptions.

Time for the red states to stop being federal welfare states and pay their own god damned way.

Nice rant.
Who doesn't complaint about the taxes they pay and what it gets spent on? I can't think of a single person.

 

[BirdinHand]

Nice rant.
Who doesn't complaint about the taxes they pay and what it gets spent on? I can't think of a single person.

I’m not complaining about what my SALT pay for.

I’m complaining because red areas don’t have high enough SALT to pay for their own shit - and want MY money to pay for it.

Pay your own bills. Stop asking for my money and then complaining when the federal government wants a say in how it gets spent.

You don’t get it both ways.

You either want states to pay their own way and a smaller federal govt or you don’t. Pick which one

 

[L88]

I’m not complaining about what my SALT pay for.

I’m complaining because red areas don’t have high enough SALT to pay for their own shit - and want MY money to pay for it.

Pay your own bills. Stop asking for my money and then complaining when the federal government wants a say in how it gets spent.

You don’t get it both ways.

You either want states to pay their own way and a smaller federal govt or you don’t. Pick which one

So tax low earners more?

 

[Greenbeard]

Yep. Wealthy people.

If they want to raise taxes on the wealthy, doesn't make sense to do it in a way that specifically penalizes states that do what the GOP is asking states to do. Just restore the top Clinton brackets.

 

[Cosmo]

The rich? Seriously?

My understanding is that most tax returns even before the SALT limits took the standard deduction.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/soi-a-inpd-id1703.pdf

So most people don't live in mansions that come with a $20,000 real estate tax bill and don't have huge incomes subject to huge state income taxes.

 

[ttwtt78640]

You need to research your complaint. A $10K in itemized deductions is less than the standard deduction. You'd pay less FIT taxes not itemizing.

I know that, thus it would be foolish for those in that situation to itemize. My point remains that the same itemized deduction amount gets those with higher incomes a larger FIT reduction.

Learn the difference between subsidy and deduction. Income is earned by individuals and businesses. Government doesn't subsidize them by allowing us to keep more of what we earn.

That’s a matter of opinion. IMHO, allowing those with the same amount of annual income to pay different amounts of FIT based on how or upon who that income was later spent is a federal subsidy (social engineering).

Whether you realize it or not your aversion to itemized deductions is a step towards a flat tax.

Exactly, where those with identical (gross) annual incomes pay the same amount of FIT.

BTW, a flat rate FIT (of say 25%) coupled with a generous and truly ‘standard’ deduction amount (of say $40K) is still effectively quite progressive until one’s annual income amount is well above the US median income.

 

[AZRWinger]

It isn’t the individual recipients in as much as it is the overall amount of federal tax dollars received.

Lower SALT in states = those states get more funding for schools, roads, infrastructure, etc

And that funding comes from blue states

Texas - for example - receives $300+ MORE per student in federal funding for their public schools than NJ does.

Why isn’t Texas paying more money to fund their own schools? Why am *I* paying to fund not only NJ public schools but also fund MORE per student in TX than in NJ from the federal government?

Mississippi gets $1K/student MORE.

I’m tired of paying welfare to states who vote for “state rights” and a smaller federal government.

They want “state rights” and a smaller federal government - then do it and stop taking my federal tax money to fund what they should be funding in a state basis.

Last I checked Texas had vastly more miles of Federal highway to maintain than New Jersey. Thanks to the Biden regime's open borders policy Texas schools have to contend with a flood of new immigrant children many of whom are barely literate in their native language.

It's amusing to see many of the same Democrats who screech about the rich not paying their fair share in taxes demand high income states like NJ, second in the nation in median household income, be given tax relief at the expense of Texas students.

List of U.S. states and territories by income - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ironically the state with the highest median household income and a nominal commitment to sanctuary policies exiled 50 illegal aliens to a military base when they showed up at the ultra rich Martha's Vineyard. The so-called refugees were forced off the island to await relocation to other states adding to the tax burden of the less affluent while Democrats cheered.

 

[Threegoofs]

One point that hasn’t been made here is that one reason not deduction SALT taxes isn’t fair is because they were enacted because the creators knew they would be federally tax deductible… they were DESIGNED that way.

The reason Illinois doesn’t charge large fees for vehicles to the extent that, say, AZ or LA does is that IL lawmakers knew that drcectible property taxes would be a more equitable way to tax.

Then the rug was pulled from under them under Trump 1.

 

[BirdinHand]

The median annual household income in TX is $41,661 and is $48,523 in NJ which is $6,862 (16%) higher - the 4th highest among the 50 states. The median household annual income in MS is $27,205 - the lowest of any state. The idea that lower income states should raise their state’s taxes and get less federal aid isn’t supported by many people outside of the richer states.

Median Household Income by State 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

Not my problem what people who vote for smaller federal government can/cannot pay for



They want smaller government - let them deal with the consequence of that vote

 

[AZRWinger]

Not my problem what people who vote for smaller federal government can/cannot pay for



They want smaller government - let them deal with the consequence of that vote

There we go, the Progressive elite version of let them eat cake.

 

[BirdinHand]

There we go, the Progressive elite version of let them eat cake.

This is what you guys voted for

Trump campaigned on removing the cap he put in place during 1.0



I do not care one bit if red states suffer from the choices they made with their votes. Leopards and faces

 

[ttwtt78640]

Not my problem what people who vote for smaller federal government can/cannot pay for



They want smaller government - let them deal with the consequence of that vote

Neither major political party wants smaller federal government, they simply have different (increased) federal spending priorities. The federal government has been taxing at about 17% of GDP and spending at about 20% of GDP for decades regardless of which party held majority power.

 

[dairyair]

In other words, democrats are supporting the idea of a tax cut for the rich.

Actually, MAGA is supporting the idea of raising taxes on the rich. Even though, they think the rich already pay too much.

 

[eohrnberger]

I’m not complaining about what my SALT pay for.

I’m complaining because red areas don’t have high enough SALT to pay for their own shit - and want MY money to pay for it.

Pay your own bills. Stop asking for my money and then complaining when the federal government wants a say in how it gets spent.

That'd be an issue for your congressman, wouldn't it?

You don’t get it both ways.

You either want states to pay their own way and a smaller federal govt or you don’t. Pick which one

I'm not arguing either for or against that in this discussion. I'm just telling with whom you need to raise your complaints with.
You just seem to want to continue to rant, if so, rant at someone else.

 

[dairyair]

The SALT deduction primarily benefits those in high-tax states, which tend to be those with consistent Democratic legislative majorities. In 2016, the ten counties with the largest SALT deductions per filer (on average) were in New York, California, Connecticut and New Jersey.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_and_local_tax_deduction#cite_note-12"><span>[</span>12<span>]</span></a> These ten counties are in the New York metropolitan area and San Francisco Bay Area, which have high concentrations of wealth and expensive real estate. Since the deduction was capped at $10,000 in 2017, many homeowners have been unable to deduct thousands of dollars that they previously could, beyond what they pay in property taxes, to state, county and local governments in these places.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_and_local_tax_deduction#cite_note-CBSNews.com-13"><span>[</span>13<span>]</span></a>

In 2017, only taxpayers in New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Jersey (the states with the first, second, third, and ninth highest GDP per capita) on average sent more than $1,000 each to the federal government above what the state received per capita.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_and_local_tax_deduction#cite_note-14"><span>[</span>14<span>]</span></a> Capping the SALT deduction increases this balance of payments deficit.

State and local tax deduction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AZRWinger]

This is what you guys voted for

Trump campaigned on removing the cap he put in place during 1.0

Voters also elected Republican majorities in the US Congress. The Big Beautiful Bill passed by the House caps the SALT deduction at $40K for incomes above $500K. The Senate is purported to be looking at reverting to the $10K limit. Hmm... doesn't seem like the blindly obedient cult to Trump does it?

I do not care one bit if red states suffer from the choices they made with their votes. Leopards and faces

Thanks for reconfirming your let them eat cake policy.

 

[JMR]

In part by eliminating or capping itemized deductions.

On that we agree. Blue states paid for Red states' tax cut.

 

[JMR]

I think I'm holding a principled position, one which I've held since these types of discussion, SALT specifically, have started here on DP while being a member of DP.

As am I.

 

[Gaius46]

You might want to add SALT into federal assistance - oh and take out support of military bases.

Seriously - look at it honestly.

Military base sitings are driven much more by politics than practical need. They're a form of welfare to the states.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Aren't you now arguing against the progressive nature which the US federal tax code has designed into it?

I am fine with paying a higher percentage of my income in taxes than someone that earns less than me. This has nothing to do with that. I pay a state income tax, I pay a local income tax in the city I work in. I also pay sales taxes and property taxes, both state and local. On top of that, I pay personal property taxes as well as various licenses and fees to my state and local government.

I get services in return for those taxes: roads and infrastructure, policing, fire and ambulance, schools, parks, mountain bike trails, lakes, conservation land, state parks trash pickup, a local fitness center, my local government even comes by several times during the Fall and vacuums up any leaves I pile up near the street. Those are all services that I pay my state, county, and local governments for with my taxes. More important as to the topic of the thread, those are services that the federal government does not have to provide for me. The federal government does not have to devote tax revenue to pave the road in front of my house, to pick up my trash, to police my neighborhood, for my local fitness center and so on. If those services were not handled by my state, county, and local government, the federal government would be stuck doing a lot of them because they are services necessary for communities and societies to function. That is why I am able to (and should be able to) deduct the taxes I pay my state, county, and local government from my federal taxes - because they are paying for services the federal government doesn't have to deliver.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I am fine with paying a higher percentage of my income in taxes than someone that earns less than me. This has nothing to do with that. I pay a state income tax, I pay a local income tax in the city I work in. I also pay sales taxes and property taxes, both state and local. On top of that, I pay personal property taxes as well as various licenses and fees to my state and local government.

I get services in return for those taxes: roads and infrastructure, policing, fire and ambulance, schools, parks, mountain bike trails, lakes, conservation land, state parks trash pickup, a local fitness center, my local government even comes by several times during the Fall and vacuums up any leaves I pile up near the street. Those are all services that I pay my state, county, and local governments for with my taxes. More important as to the topic of the thread, those are services that the federal government does not have to provide for me. The federal government does not have to devote tax revenue to pave the road in front of my house, to pick up my trash, to police my neighborhood, for my local fitness center and so on. If those services were not handled by my state, county, and local government, the federal government would be stuck doing a lot of them because they are services necessary for communities and societies to function. That is why I am able to (and should be able to) deduct the taxes I pay my state, county, and local government from my federal taxes - because they are paying for services the federal government doesn't have to deliver.

OK, but why make that (alleged) ‘fairness’ available only to those who itemize those (shared by most) SALT obligations? The majority of FIT payers are better off taking the ‘standard’ deduction since their (total) itemized deductions would be less than that.