"You will own nothing and you will be happy!"

[smallvoice]

The US is free to bring the military home from Europe at any time.
Nobody is or can force them to stay.
Do you honestly think the US government would listen to UK government objections if they decided to bring home all UK based personnel?

And no one is asking them to leave. There is a good reason for that. Got ANY idea what that is?

On your last question, there will be several back channel messages on the advantages of forward basing, which is exactly why you don't pull yours back, and we don't pull ours back.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I am not what could be called "socialist"...I guess I am pretty much middle of the road, a little conservative on some things, a little liberal on others.
I laugh when people throw the word "socialist" around when describing liberals here in the USA because I have BEEN to REAL socialist countries; there's no similarity between liberalism and real actual socialism.

Saying that liberalism is the same as socialism, or that it's a doorway to socialism is like saying that a Volkswagen is like a Porsche and that if you own a Volkswagen, you might one day walk out to your driveway and discover that it has morphed into a 911 Turbo, and all because seventy years ago they might have shared a similar flat four boxer engine configuration.
If you've driven a 1965 Beetle and you've also driven a 911 Turbo, you understand what I am saying.
If they were the same thing, James Dean would have died in a Beetle.

There is NO such THING as a PURELY socialist system, it's not sustainable. Likewise I would advise that these stupid Ayn Rand TRUE BELIEVERS need to have a Coke and a smile and chill the **** out a little because there is also no such thing as a purely CAPITALIST system either. It too, is not sustainable.
There's plenty about socialism which stinks, but there's also plenty of things which stink about capitalism too, which is why people have discovered over time that one needs to take the best aspects of both to form a PRAGMATIC HYBRID system which balances out the good and the bad.

I am getting sick and tired of hearing the TRUE BELIEVERS screaming and yelling about how theirs and only theirs is the TRUE system. They remind me of Scientologists or UFO cultists. They're drunk on their fanatical fundamentalism and they need to be SLAPPED down a little so that they remember that they might be going off the deep end a little. It is going to take the combined efforts of MANY MANY rational people to accomplish this.

 

[Peter]

And no one is asking them to leave. There is a good reason for that. Got ANY idea what that is?

On your last question, there will be several back channel messages on the advantages of forward basing, which is exactly why you don't pull yours back, and we don't pull ours back.

I know.
The US military is in the UK for stretegic reasons.
There are also hundreds of thousands of US citizens living here as well so there's that.
There's also something to be said for having bases overseas to help train troops with other nations armed forces as they all bring specialties to the table and the UK just demonstrated this by having US jets on board the maiden voyage of the carrier Queen Elizabeth.

Anyway while we can't force the US to stay we welcome them with open arms as trusted partners and they stay because they feel it's a good idea to do so.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Of course it does, you just can accept what it says.

Why would I accept something that makes no sense?

Perhaps if you rephrase?

 

[highroller]

Yeah, that was back when Europe was run by a bunch of reactionary aristocrats. Things changed over the last 110 years.

Yes, now that’s America

 

[smallvoice]

I know.
The US military is in the UK for stretegic reasons.
There are also hundreds of thousands of US citizens living here as well so there's that.
There's also something to be said for having bases overseas to help train troops with other nations armed forces as they all bring specialties to the table and the UK just demonstrated this by having US jets on board the maiden voyage of the carrier Queen Elizabeth.

Anyway while we can't force the US to stay we welcome them with open arms as trusted partners and they stay because they feel it's a good idea to do so.

I know. I was stationed at RAF Mildenhall for three years when Reagan was President. I was the Mark 2 Jaguar judge for the local chapter of the Jaguar Driver's Club, and still travel back to visit my friends there..

 

[smallvoice]

Why would I accept something that makes no sense?

Perhaps if you rephrase?

Sure. Of course it does, you just can't accept what it says.

 

[Lafayette]

Just because someone moves from a place doesn't mean it was because they hated it.
People emigrate for all sorts of reasons and many, many people move from the US to the UK every year to live and vice versa.

Saying all Europe sucks is as silly as saying all the USA sucks.

Anyway, what exactly do you object to about Europe?

Spot on as rebuttal!

One-liner rebuttal devoid of sense or argumentation is simply "trash ...

 

[Lafayette]

I know.
The US military is in the UK for stretegic reasons.
There are also hundreds of thousands of US citizens living here as well so there's that.

About 800,000 Americans live in the European Union compared to the more than 4 million Europeans who live in the United States. Whyzzat?

Because a lot of us came when there was a great need in a war-ravaged Europe for American-knowhow at outlets for American products and services. That happened in the 1950s, 60s and '70s.

The Europeans started getting to the point where local-competence was able to meet local-demand that took the place of Americans. Some of us carried on and stayed - I did.

Cute story: An American who served in WW2 met a French woman casually in a small town in Northern France. He continued on to fight in Germany till the end of the war in then went back to the states. He came back this year to find her and did so - and he married her. He now lives in France. (More here.)

 

[Lafayette]

I laugh when people throw the word "socialist" around when describing liberals here in the USA because I have BEEN to REAL socialist countries; there's no similarity between liberalism and real actual socialism.

I don't laugh. It is all-over this debate-forum.

One-liners as a response in such a forum should be a no-no - it is an observable sign of lack of cogent rebuttal content in a debate ...

 

[Lafayette]

"History clearly demonstrates how every Socialist Utopia ended in a totalitarian nightmare."

History demonstrates nothing of the kind!

What history shows is that the notion of "socialism" - first defined in the latter 19th century - got it wrong. And some countries after the defeat of the Nazis decided that Communism was the better policy.

It took a bit longer - another half century beyond the end of WW2 (1945?) - for the Communism to demonstrate clearly its lack of efficacy. The eastern-Communist countries of Europe quickly dumped communism and opted to join the European Union. Moscow took some with them on their quest for a solution - but has surrendered to the presently shameful Russian president.

Tis a pity ...

 

[Lafayette]

And no one is asking them to leave.

Putin (aptly pronounced "POO-teen") would very much like to see Yank-troops disappear from Europe. There remain about 60,000 in strength.

It aint-gonna-happin and he knows it. The American troops are for the most part in Germany, a bit less in Italy and the UK.

He remains a practicing member of the Russian Orthodox Church and delivered a Christmas Eve speech in Moscow in 1999 ....

 

[Lafayette]

A DECENT ECONOMIC FUTURE

And no one is asking them to leave. There is a good reason for that. Got ANY idea what that is?

On your last question, there will be several back channel messages on the advantages of forward basing, which is exactly why you don't pull yours back, and we don't pull ours back.

It is interesting all these ideas/notions/complaints about "our governance" but, from my European POV I think two other matters are dominant. And I have made both highly repetitive on this forum.

For the continue good-fortune of the nation (yes, indeed, stateside you are much better off than a greater part of the world. Though not necessarily better than Europe, which has implemented two-key factors:
*National Health Care at very low that permits people to get into a hospital before a sickness gets serious, and
*Post-secondary low-cost schooling that allows people to obtains both skills as well as serious 2- and 4-year educational instruction - both of which are key to a decent economic future for all Americans ...

 

[Lafayette]

IT MUST BE DONE

America has become far, far more a Services Industries nation than ever before. Which means what? We must train/educate people to the level necessary to sustain a decent economic-existence and if that costs more government-money then, yet, it must be done.

As I never tire of saying, the DoD is not a necessary as we think. The good news is related here: PGF Petersen Foundation - US Defense Spending Compared to Other Countries.

Defense spending accounts for more than 10 percent of all federal spending and nearly half of discretionary spending. Total discretionary spending — for both defense and nondefense purposes — is typically only about one-third of the annual federal budget. It is currently below its historical average as a share of GDP and is projected to decline further.

Which seems to be good news if defense-spending cost much less - the money could be spent on lower-cost Healthcare ... !

 

[smallvoice]

About 800,000 Americans live in the European Union compared to the more than 4 million Europeans who live in the United States. Whyzzat?

Because a lot of us came when there was a great need in a war-ravaged Europe for American-knowhow at outlets for American products and services. That happened in the 1950s, 60s and '70s.

The Europeans started getting to the point where local-competence was able to meet local-demand that took the place of Americans. Some of us carried on and stayed - I did.

Cute story: An American who served in WW2 met a French woman casually in a small town in Northern France. He continued on to fight in Germany till the end of the war in then went back to the states. He came back this year to find her and did so - and he married her. He now lives in France. (More here.)

Whyzzat? Because everything is better here. The disaffected, and those that are employed in Europe, are the "about 800,000 Americans".

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Just because someone moves from a place doesn't mean it was because they hated it.
People emigrate for all sorts of reasons and many, many people move from the US to the UK every year to live and vice versa.

Saying all Europe sucks is as silly as saying all the USA sucks.

Anyway, what exactly do you object to about Europe?

My father would have been more than happy taking over his father's position as Herr Direktor of the Frankfurt World Bank.
He insisted he would have even been happy if his father hadn't married into the position and had simply been a BAKER like the rest of his family instead, and
I remember watching my father enjoy trying his own hand at baking, so he would have likely been happy as a baker instead of as a banker.
Trouble is, Herr Hitler arrested my grandfather and held him for ransom...twenty-five million Marks in GOLD (appr $430 Mn today) and my father wound up being smuggled
to New York City at age fifteen in 1937 with almost nothing in his pockets instead.

My mother and her siblings would have been delighted to continue in the family ceramics business and her father would have continued to enjoy
running his wrought iron business. Trouble is, Mussolini's black shirts informed my mother's father that his wrought iron business wasn't his anymore and
if he knew what was good for him he'd get out now, get out alive.
And so, the ceramics business was left to the cousins and aunts and uncles and the wrought iron business was taken over.
Bontempo Ceramiche is still in operation today in Rapino Italy but our immediate family has no stock in it anymore.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Cute story: An American who served in WW2 met a French woman casually in a small town in Northern France. He continued on to fight in Germany till the end of the war in then went back to the states. He came back this year to find her and did so - and he married her. He now lives in France. (More here.)

That brought tears to my eyes.

 

[Yes_Minister]

The new Marxist Democrat Party with the usual old Socialist indoctrination and propaganda.

History clearly demonstrates how every Socialist Utopia ended in a totalitarian nightmare.

Listen to me people: "Democratic Socialism" has never worked as promised and it never will.

What do Amazon employees who get treated like robots by Bezos and cannot afford houses own now?

Democratic Socialism would allow workers to have more of a say at their place of work rather than being serfs to a pseudo feudal lord like Bezos.

Market socialism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Maxell;4]

Socialism isn't Marxism. Different "isms".
But since you've brought up the subject, I addressed something similarly just this morning.

Any place that the government - local, state, or federal - provides services to the American public, paid for with collective American taxpayer dollar$, is effectively socialism. We've been living under some form of modified "socialism" for more than 100 years!

You really should run for office.
The lemmings eat up the bullsh*t you are serving.
But how do you learn to actually believe your lies?
That is a trait only true politicians....and teachers share.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...even you despite it isn't correct.
Social programs aren't socialism any more than hunting rifles are assault weapons.
It's a term the liberals love to use to create a false narrative to further their agenda and fool the less educated.

There isn't one socialist country that offers the freedom that you have.
A socialist country has public control over property, natural resources and production.
None of your "examples" translate to that in the USA.

Apparently you are projecting what you want, not reality.

 

[Maxell;4]

What do Amazon employees who get treated like robots by Bezos and cannot afford houses own now?

Market socialism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

They OWN the right to find better jobs.
They OWN the right to further their education and move on.
Nobody forces them to work at Amazon except the sub-par education the LIBERAL CONTROLLED public school system has "given" them.
Indoctrination doesn't mean education. Ask anyone working for minimum wage why they can't get ahead.......the common denominator is a public school education.

 

[MamboDervish]

You really should run for office.
The lemmings eat up the bullsh*t you are serving.
But how do you learn to actually believe your lies?
That is a trait only true politicians....and teachers share.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...even you despite it isn't correct.
Social programs aren't socialism any more than hunting rifles are assault weapons.
It's a term the liberals love to use to create a false narrative to further their agenda and fool the less educated.

There isn't one socialist country that offers the freedom that you have.
A socialist country has public control over property, natural resources and production.
None of your "examples" translate to that in the USA.

Apparently you are projecting what you want, not reality.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

Socialism vs. Communism: How Are They Different?

Find out the difference between communism and socialism, two related but distinct political theories and systems.

www.thoughtco.com

 

[LostInSeattle]

My ancestors came here precisely because they thought Europe sucked. I feel the same.

When was that?

 

[LostInSeattle]

They OWN the right to find better jobs.

Yes!

They OWN the right to further their education and move on.

Yes!

Nobody forces them to work at Amazon except the sub-par education the LIBERAL CONTROLLED public school system has "given" them

School districts are entirely local. They reflect the ideology / political leaning of their community.

Conservatives have more influence on educational policy than anyone. Instead of following a national curriculum, with all schools getting equal funding and having the same standards like in Japan, Germany, France, Denmark - the conservatives want everything controlled locally, funded locally and managed locally. This results in people in poorer communities getting worse education because their schools don't have resources.

Indoctrination doesn't mean education. Ask anyone working for minimum wage why they can't get ahead.......the common denominator is a public school education.

I am certain of that.

 

[HangLow]

Funny thing is the whole explanation of the differences is in the roots of the words used to describe them.
Communism is everybody owns everything equally.
Socialism puts the society at the top of priorities.
Capitlaism puts capital at the top of priorities.

​

 

[What if...?]

Stop embarrassing yourself.

Socialism vs. Communism: How Are They Different?

Find out the difference between communism and socialism, two related but distinct political theories and systems.

www.thoughtco.com

Trump said it. They believe it. That settles it.

Stupid is as stupid does.