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You can be prolife and pro choice at the same time!

ngdawg said:
"Pro-life" is not an accurate moniker as it does NOT consider the life of the woman as it pertains to circumstance and would much prefer to take away any freedom of choice.

Prolife is a highly accurate moniker as prolifers value life and don't believe the life and fate of one human should depend on the choice of another human.

Prochoice however is a completely inaccurate moniker as it could be talking about anything. Prolife at least lets you know the people value life. Prochoice suggests you value choice but in regards to what? In regards to allowing a mother to kill the human developing in her womb!

I like choice. I'd like to see women have many choices and options available to them in life. However I don't think the choice to kill is honorable or worth fighting for.

And if you say you'd never personally have an abortion? Why? Why is that? If you see something inherently wrong with it than why would you support the choice for others in society?
 
For the same reason I don't wear yellow or pee in the snow. If someone wants to wear yellow or pee in the snow, they have a right to do so. Do you eat oysters? I find that repulsive, but it's not my right to tell you you can't have them.
How is pro-choice not accurate? Do you know what choice means? CHOOSING. Pro=FOR. we are FOR CHOOSING.
Pro-life has no regard for circumstance or for the life of the living breathing human being, instead regards her as an incubator for the probability of life to come. THAT is not pro-life, it is merely pro-embryo or pro-fetus. Sorry, but if it came down to ruining the life of a woman in dire straits or stopping what put her there, I'd go with stopping what put her there and allowing her to continue to thrive and hopefully contribute to society.

I don't have to choose things for myself just because it's a choice. I'm not a lemming and I don't think others should be either. Until it is realized that it is the living, breathing contributor to society that takes precedence, that HER life is worth more consideration, so-called 'pro-life' will continue to be a misnomer.
 
talloulou,

And if you say you'd never personally have an abortion? Why? Why is that? If you see something inherently wrong with it than why would you support the choice for others in society?

That's the 60,000 dollar question.
 
ngdawg said:
For the same reason I don't wear yellow or pee in the snow. If someone wants to wear yellow or pee in the snow, they have a right to do so. Do you eat oysters? I find that repulsive, but it's not my right to tell you you can't have them.
How is pro-choice not accurate? Do you know what choice means? CHOOSING. Pro=FOR. we are FOR CHOOSING.
Pro-life has no regard for circumstance or for the life of the living breathing human being, instead regards her as an incubator for the probability of life to come. THAT is not pro-life, it is merely pro-embryo or pro-fetus. Sorry, but if it came down to ruining the life of a woman in dire straits or stopping what put her there, I'd go with stopping what put her there and allowing her to continue to thrive and hopefully contribute to society.

I don't have to choose things for myself just because it's a choice. I'm not a lemming and I don't think others should be either. Until it is realized that it is the living, breathing contributor to society that takes precedence, that HER life is worth more consideration, so-called 'pro-life' will continue to be a misnomer.


:yt


why must we keep writing the same thing. What don't people get that while I don't agree with it , other people's life is not my life, and I ain't gonna tell them how to live it.
 
Pro-Life = Only Choice is to Have Baby

Pro-Choice = For Either Choice...Female can have baby or female can choose to not have baby.
 
Americanwoman

why must we keep writing the same thing. What don't people get that while I don't agree with it , other people's life is not my life, and I ain't gonna tell them how to live it.

Sorry. I just think that's an invaild argument. Why wouldn't you get an abortion?
 
Ivan The Terrible said:
Americanwoman



Sorry. I just think that's an invaild argument. Why wouldn't you get an abortion?


I personally wouldn't get an abortion because I would always be responsible to do the right thing. If I was to get raped or some other horrible thing I would still keep the baby because thats just me.
 
You are trying to trap her.
It is a valid arguement.
You need to explain why it is not valid for each individual to make an individual choice.
 
ngdawg said:
For the same reason I don't wear yellow or pee in the snow. If someone wants to wear yellow or pee in the snow, they have a right to do so. Do you eat oysters? I find that repulsive, but it's not my right to tell you you can't have them.

These are very different than the right to kill.

How is pro-choice not accurate? Do you know what choice means? CHOOSING. Pro=FOR. we are FOR CHOOSING.
Yeah I get all that but I think its incredible someone would say prolife is inaccurate when it is much more descriptive than prochoice. You could be prochoice about any number of things. Prolife is specific.

Pro-life has no regard for circumstance or for the life of the living breathing human being, instead regards her as an incubator for the probability of life to come.

Just because I don't believe women should have the right to kill that doesn't mean I have no regard for them. Furthermore abortion doesn't kill a "potential" or a "probability" abortion kills a human life.
 
BodiSatva said:
You are trying to trap her.
It is a valid arguement.
You need to explain why it is not valid for each individual to make an individual choice.

Individuals should be allowed to make individual choices when those choices hurt noone. Choices that hurt or KILL another human are slightly different than lifestyle choices. Live and let live is one thing. But abortion KILLS.

If you are against molesting children....is that an across the board deal or do you think others should have the choice of being a molester or not?

Abortion kills.
 
BodiSatva said:
And talloulou...I don't think that any person said that abortion did not bother them, it is just that they support the woman's right to choose. I know that personally, abortion at any point bothers me...but their are many variables to take into account and I do not think that we have the right dictate policy regarding a woman or their cargo...

Perhaps this works for you because you have been brainwashed into believing a fetus is cargo! A fetus is a living human at an early stage of development. It is not cargo. It is a human. A young human. A human that can not defend itself. It is not parasitic or tumor like. It is a human in a stage of development that every human goes through.

Furthermore these prochoice arguments just don't make sense. If the women next door tells me she has no money and her kids are really inconvenient and she no longer wants them should I tell her to kill them??? That is what you are all saying in a sense. That the only way to care for and respect a woman who is accidentally pregnant is to allow her to kill the human developing within her. Yet none of you would suggest that single poor moms who find their toddlers inconvenient and troublesome should have the right to kill them. None of you would say look whose more important a small nontalking toddler or the woman, duh! The Women! So let her kill her kids.
 
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BodiSatva,

You are trying to trap her.

Ooooooo hell Yeah! The question is what are you gonna do about it bucko? What makes you think she doesn't want to be traped?

It is a valid arguement.
You need to explain why it is not valid for each individual to make an individual choice.

talloulou said it.


Individuals should be allowed to make individual choices when those choices hurt noone. Choices that hurt or KILL another human are slightly different than lifestyle choices. Live and let live is one thing. But abortion KILLS.

If you are against molesting children....is that an across the board deal or do you think others should have the choice of being a molester or not?

Abortion kills.
 
And war kills. And that kills living, breathing contributing members of society.
And we don't like it, but guess what? That's a part of life. No one is asking you to go to war, no one is asking YOU to abort.
Things kill and they kill people who had families, had children, had wives and husbands and mothers and fathers. But, those things don't seem to matter to you. Save the unwanted unborn undeveloped embryo....:roll: Screw quality of the woman's life. Just because my life or your life was enriched by having our children does NOT hold true for everyone-that is where your lack of compassion, lack of empathy comes in. Everyone is supposed to be all happy and light and accept what could possibly be the worse thing that could happen to them? Again, NOT 'pro'-life at all.
For the millionth freakin time.....it is NOT your choice nor is it your right to force YOUR choice on another.

And Ivan...it's TRAPPED...two P's...
 
ngdawg said:
And war kills. And that kills living, breathing contributing members of society.

And who says I like war? And if men and women were being drafted I'd have a much bigger problem with war. But currently they are not.

Also if someone broke into my house and tried to kill my family I'd have no problem killing them.

But war is not in anyway similar to feticide. The human in the womb has no chance at defending itself.

And we don't like it, but guess what? That's a part of life. No one is asking you to go to war, no one is asking YOU to abort.

Noone asks me to be a rapist.

Noone asks me to be a child molester.

Noone asks me to be a child abuser.

But guess what I am still against all those things 'cause they are without a doubt WRONG AND HEINOUS.

Things kill and they kill people who had families, had children, had wives and husbands and mothers and fathers. But, those things don't seem to matter to you.
This statement is vague and furthermore how do you know what matters to me?

Save the unwanted unborn undeveloped embryo....:roll:

Many abortions take place at the fetal stage first off. Second off there are many who could be considered unwanted be we don't advocate killing them. Third toddlers are undeveloped compared to an adult.

Screw quality of the woman's life.

I wouldn't allow a women to kill her 2 y.o. or her 10 y.o. to better her quallity of life. The human in the womb is just a younger version....it's still completely 100% a human.

Just because my life or your life was enriched by having our children does NOT hold true for everyone-that is where your lack of compassion, lack of empathy comes in.

Your damn right if my neighbor killed her kids I'd have a real lack of compassion for her.

Everyone is supposed to be all happy and light and accept what could possibly be the worse thing that could happen to them? Again, NOT 'pro'-life at all.
This is total BS. If a woman's husband leaves her, walks out and abandons her with 6 kids, I would have tons of compassion for her. I'd try to help her anyway I could. However I would not stand by while she killed those kids in a selfish attempt to better her life and make it easier.

For the millionth freakin time.....it is NOT your choice nor is it your right to force YOUR choice on another.

You're absolutely right but laws have been known to change.
 
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Talloulou –
But war is not in anyway similar to feticide. The human in the womb has no chance at defending itself.

Neither does the family at the receiving end of a cruise missile attack. Defending oneself has no bearing.

Almost everything kills. Cars driven into people kill the innocent and defenseless. The sun has killed innocent people as the illegally try to invade America along the border. Lots of things kill…that is the difference and it is the one thing that will never be resolved.

Ivan -
The question is what are you gonna do about it bucko?

Well, talloulou answered well. And that is her right to think that. Of course abortion kills...that is not the point though...the debate is what does abortion kill? You think a human and that is that. Fine. Do not ever have an abortion then. Do not support abortion then.

One side thinks that abortion kills a human that is a human at the point of inception and that this is unacceptable and the other side thinks that it abortion does not kill a human, rather, it kills what should not be described as a human yet, for it is something that is not yet developed into a human.

The female body treats an embryo as if it were a parasite initially. When is an egg a human? When the female is ovulating? When the sperm meets? When it is an embryo? When it is a fetus? Does the woman have the choice to suppress ovulation through artificial means because that kills the egg? Is taking the pill killing the egg and thus killing a human at its earliest stage? Some might think so.

Some people think that prior to the eighth week, aborting a fetus, or killing the fetus, is not the same as killing a human, because they do not think that a fetus is a human. The issue is one of opinion. Since people are debating their opinion as to when a human is a human, people will not agree.

Personally, I do not want women to get abortions. I think that letting an embryo evolve into a fetus, and letting a fetus evolve into what I consider an entity worthy of being called a human being, is the course of action that should transpire. But I also feel that a woman should not have to go through the entire pregnancy against her choice. Period.

That brings us to this one…

Talloulou –
Perhaps this works for you because you have been brainwashed into believing a fetus is cargo! A fetus is a living human at an early stage of development. It is not cargo. It is a human. A young human. A human that can not defend itself. It is not parasitic or tumor like. It is a human in a stage of development that every human goes through.

I like that. I was brainwashed! Actually, I think that I developed the concept of a fetus being cargo all by myself. It is. I do not distinguish between a case of diapers and a person when they are both being transported. They are both a type of cargo. A fetus/baby that is being carried by a mother is a type of cargo. I don’t buy the “we are special because we are human and so we have to distinguish ourselves ABOVE everything else in the universe” garbage. It is a term. It is correct. Get over it. I am cargo when I am on a jet plane traveling across country. Cargo is freight that is carried about. Freight is a burden or load or goods. Oohh. A fetus can be a burden by my description. Yep. Sure can. Therein lays your dilemma. To convince people that an embryo is a human or that a fetus is a human or that a human deserves to live over a whale. I want people or myself to live over the whale, but if I die and a whale lives, then that is simply what happened. Pro-Lifers think that Human Life is so precious that it matters more than anything else. I accept that we are part of life and that people are not so precious that we have to create emotions that are so strong that they blind ourselves to the truth.
 
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BodiSatva said:
The female body treats an embryo as if it were a parasite initially.

Really do females breast swell in preparation to feed tapeworms once they have left the body. Do we develop placentas for tapeworms? This lie is one of the most disgusting lies prochoicers toss around.


Actually, I think that I developed the concept of a fetus being cargo all by myself.

Yeah cargo, parasite, got any more derogatory terms? You are in denial and science does not agree with you.
 
Carrying 13 lbs of baby surrounded by another 44 lbs of water, breast tissue and fat sure seemed like being a cargo carrier to me....precious cargo, but cargo....and me go very very slowly carrying it....:mrgreen:
 
ngdawg said:
Carrying 13 lbs of baby surrounded by another 44 lbs of water, breast tissue and fat sure seemed like being a cargo carrier to me....precious cargo, but cargo....and me go very very slowly carrying it....:mrgreen:

Interesting how its "precious" cargo vs parasite cargo depending on the mood of the woman.
 
talloulou said:
Interesting how its "precious" cargo vs parasite cargo depending on the mood of the woman.

What, now it's a matter of PMS? :roll:
 
Actually, it IS precious or a burden depending on the woman and her situation and I really don't see why you can't fathom that....there's that lack of compassion, for all to see.
What is really mind-stumping is how those that pretend to have 'christian ethics' in this matter have shown to be completely without empathy or understanding of why someone might feel they have been burdened and need to make decisions not to these people's liking.:roll:
 
ngdawg said:
Actually, it IS precious or a burden depending on the woman and her situation and I really don't see why you can't fathom that....there's that lack of compassion, for all to see.
What is really mind-stumping is how those that pretend to have 'christian ethics' in this matter have shown to be completely without empathy or understanding of why someone might feel they have been burdened and need to make decisions not to these people's liking.:roll:
Well I don't pretend to have Christian ethics but if I did I would probably say Do not Kill is a biggie as far as Christians ethics go.
 
talloulou,

Interesting how its "precious" cargo vs parasite cargo depending on the mood of the woman.

Yeah. I notcie that too. It's pretty sick.
 
ngdawg said:
Actually, it IS precious or a burden depending on the woman and her situation and I really don't see why you can't fathom that....there's that lack of compassion, for all to see.


This is true for mothers and their children born or unborn! And I do have compassion what I don't have is the ability to turn a blind eye to killing. Where you see one I see two. And I have compassion for both.
 
Talloulou...your willingness to be hostile and to not acknowledge anything other than what makes you mad makes any chance to discuss the issue with you a burden. Out of everything that I posted, you chose to attack two things that are not even debatable.

“The female body treats an embryo as if it were a parasite initially.” – Bodi

What is first trimester morning sickness then? It is the body increasing estrogen and progesterone levels, as well as an enhanced sense of smell and excess stomach acids. The fact is, and please research this all you like, that nobody knows definitively what causes morning sickness…so it is impossible to discount my theory. My theory assigns no negative association with the developing human. My theory dispassionately looks at the fact that a foreign entity has attached itself to the woman’s body and is growing. Is this not a fact? If you do not like my terminology, that is fine…but justify this statement rationally and without the repeated disrespect please.
 
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