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Yes, Virginia: Hitler really was a socialist

snakestretcher said:
Have you actually read anything except revisionist nonsense to bolster your evident far-right ideology? How about Shirer's 'Rise and Fall of the Third Reich'? Trevor-Roper's' The Last Days of Hitler'? If you did you might actually learn something instead of the rubbish you've been desperately posting.
You've even had a pdf of Mein Kampf linked to, yet you still persist with your benighted denialist beliefs.
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Rise and Fall describes a 1920s Germany where the Nazis were trying to compete with he Communists and Social Democrats. It describes a world where Goebbels advocated for a merger between the National Socialists and Communists as he saw no difference between the two parties.
 
haymarket said:
Do you realize that in the drawing of political science continuums, Fascism is placed on the far right side of the continuum along with Nazism? And in America, Trump has placed himself on the right side of the same continuum.

So your personal claim that there are zero links is just not valid as they are both ring wing ideologies.

I would guess open minds could argue if Trumpism is really a political ideology or is merely a conservative and authoritarian expression of the cult of personality - but it still is on the right side of the political continuum.
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In conventional narrative, the ideology on the far left of the horizontal spectrum is called Communism and the one on the other side is called Fascism or National Socialism.

Communists are opponents of private property and believe the State should own and control the means of production and that violence is both needed and just to reach Utopia. Whenever Communism has been tried, it has resulted in poverty, misery and genoice.

Nazis are opponents of private property and believe the State should own and control the means of production and that violence is both needed and just to reach Utopia. Whenever Nazism has been tried, it has resulted in poverty, misery and genoice.

How can two identical ideologies be both identical and polar opposites at the same time? It is absolutely obscure to me and should be to anyone with an inch of sense in their mind.

This has nothing to do with fingerpointing to purify my own ideology. It just happens to be that Leftism is evil. The further from the Left you get, the more peaceful will your society be. There is a reason contemporary Liberals position themselves right of Communism; they understand the lunacy of it and are not completely evil. ;)

Edit: It is no coincidence that that scientist managed to get a re-written excerpt of Mein Kampf published in that Marxist Feminist magasine - It sounded good to their ears and much in line with their reasoning.
 
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haymarket said:
Do you realize that in the drawing of political science continuums, Fascism is placed on the far right side of the continuum along with Nazism?
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Yes, fascism is on the right side of the socialist continuum with communism on the left.
And in America, Trump has placed himself on the right side of the same continuum.
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Thats false and dumb. The socialist continuum does not exist here, at least not to any significant degree. There are fascists and communists who associate with left and right but they are an insignificant fringe with virtually no adherents and no political power whatsoever.

So your personal claim that there are zero links is just not valid as they are both ring wing ideologies.
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It is valid. I am on the right, in fact I am on the far right. Give me one thing I have ever said that even remotely resembles fascist ideology. You cant.

I would guess open minds could argue if Trumpism is really a political ideology or is merely a conservative and authoritarian expression of the cult of personality - but it still is on the right side of the political continuum.
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Yes, Trumpism is to the right of the capitalist continuum. You are just confusing it with fascism either out of ignorance or a desire to smear your political opponents

Simple question for you and one I am certain you wont answer: Since you are on the left, even the far left, would it be fair to associate your ideology in any way with communists who are also on the far left? I will answer my own question since you will not. The answer is 'no' As much as you and I disagree, your positions are not communist, any more than mine are fascist. Why? Because America is not on the socialist continuum. We are on the capitalist continuum. The right, here, calls for free markets, small government and limited to no wealth distribution. Thats not fascism. The left is for larger government, high regulation and generous welfare benefits. Thats not communism. You are no more communist than I am fascist. Using such terms to describe American politics is rooted in ignorance.
 
Fletch said:
Yes, fascism is on the right side of the socialist continuum with communism on the left. Thats false and dumb. The socialist continuum does not exist here, at least not to any significant degree. There are fascists and communists who associate with left and right but they are an insignificant fringe with virtually no adherents and no political power whatsoever.

It is valid. I am on the right, in fact I am on the far right. Give me one thing I have ever said that even remotely resembles fascist ideology. You cant.

Yes, Trumpism is to the right of the capitalist continuum. You are just confusing it with fascism either out of ignorance or a desire to smear your political opponents

Simple question for you and one I am certain you wont answer: Since you are on the left, even the far left, would it be fair to associate your ideology in any way with communists who are also on the far left? I will answer my own question since you will not. The answer is 'no' As much as you and I disagree, your positions are not communist, any more than mine are fascist. Why? Because America is not on the socialist continuum. We are on the capitalist continuum. The right, here, calls for free markets, small government and limited to no wealth distribution. Thats not fascism. The left is for larger government, high regulation and generous welfare benefits. Thats not communism. You are no more communist than I am fascist. Using such terms to describe American politics is rooted in ignorance.
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I think that there is some 4D-chess kind of magic behind the conenvtional left-right-spectrum that only those who are blessed with an IQ high enough to be Statist can see. Us Libertarians simply cannot understand it because we cannot even realise that a Libertarian society would have 'Corn Flakes' packs that explode upon opening them. :)
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I think you replied to the wrong post. There is no 'definition' of fascism in my post.

But then you Con nutters haven't got anything right in this thread yet anyway... So..............................
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What's your definition of fascism?
 
Dacke said:
In conventional narrative, the ideology on the far left of the horizontal spectrum is called Communism and the one on the other side is called Fascism or National Socialism.

Communists are opponents of private property and believe the State should own and control the means of production and that violence is both needed and just to reach Utopia. Whenever Communism has been tried, it has resulted in poverty, misery and genoice.

Nazis are opponents of private property and believe the State should own and control the means of production and that violence is both needed and just to reach Utopia. Whenever Nazism has been tried, it has resulted in poverty, misery and genoice.

How can two identical ideologies be both identical and polar opposites at the same time? It is absolutely obscure to me and should be to anyone with an inch of sense in their mind.

This has nothing to do with fingerpointing to purify my own ideology. It just happens to be that Leftism is evil. The further from the Left you get, the more peaceful will your society be. There is a reason contemporary Liberals position themselves right of Communism; they understand the lunacy of it and are not completely evil. ;)

Edit: It is no coincidence that that scientist managed to get a re-written excerpt of Mein Kampf published in that Marxist Feminist magasine - It sounded good to their ears and much in line with their reasoning.
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I believe you are getting Nazism and property wrong. Yes, Nazism reserves the right to take over private property and make decisions as to its use. But lots and lots and lots of private businesses in Germany under the Nazis were relatively untouched and not interfered with.
 
Fletch said:
Yes, fascism is on the right side of the socialist continuum with communism on the left. Thats false and dumb. The socialist continuum does not exist here, at least not to any significant degree. There are fascists and communists who associate with left and right but they are an insignificant fringe with virtually no adherents and no political power whatsoever.
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I have no idea what you think you mean by THE SOCIALIST CONTINUUM. Socialism is one thing placed on a political continuum by political scientists.
 
Irredentist said:
Despotic government is not a leftist idea. For instance, Saudi Arabia have a despotic government but they are certainly not "leftists". They are extremely conservative.
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SIAP. Large despotic gov'ts are.
 
haymarket said:
I believe you are getting Nazism and property wrong. Yes, Nazism reserves the right to take over private property and make decisions as to its use. But lots and lots and lots of private businesses in Germany under the Nazis were relatively untouched and not interfered with.
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So, basically you are trying to say that; "Yes, but that was not REAL Socialism." :D
 
Irredentist said:
Despotic government is not a leftist idea. For instance, Saudi Arabia have a despotic government but they are certainly not "leftists". They are extremely conservative.
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Using your definition of conservative, the USSR was a conservative communist state.:lamo
 
haymarket said:
I believe you are getting Nazism and property wrong. Yes, Nazism reserves the right to take over private property and make decisions as to its use. But lots and lots and lots of private businesses in Germany under the Nazis were relatively untouched and not interfered with.
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Are you one of the ones who claim Nazism is far-right and yet you agree that there were 'collectivism' aspects of Nazism?:lamo You also realize your description of how Nazi Germany allowed certain private businesses to remain untouched is exactly how China deals economically with Hong Kong, one of its provinces?
 
cabse5 said:
Are you one of the ones who claim Nazism is far-right and yet you agree that there were 'collectivism' aspects of Nazism?:lamo
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The collectivist aspects (your term and not mine), if there truly were any that were there for the people as opposed to the government - was simply authoritarian and dictatorial in serving the state. And that is inherently part of the far right and far left. In fact, I would offer than all forms of viable government employ aspects of what could be called authoritarian - and that includes democratic based systems such as ours. I would point out that in WW2, the USA itself found it necessary to take over many businesses and industries in not in ownership but by fiat and order. Walt Disney was fond of telling the story of driving up to his studio in 1942 and discovering it was not being run by a general who strong suggested what films the studio would be making to assist in the war effort.

I really do not know if such efforts could fairly be labeled as "collectivist aspects" as much as they are for the convenience of government administration.
 
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Fletch said:
You liberals do this a lot. When you have no ability to cobble together an intelligent response, you simply declare the question to be stupid. So I will have to assume that that is what you are doing here
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No your repsonse was illogcial, one does not follow the other.
BTW I'm not a liberal.
 
haymarket said:
The collectivist aspects (your term and not mine), if there truly were any that were there for the people as opposed to the government - was simply authoritarian and dictatorial in serving the state. And that is inherently part of the far right and far left. In fact, I would offer than all forms of viable government employ aspects of what could be called authoritarian - and that includes democratic based systems such as ours. I would point out that in WW2, the USA itself found it necessary to take over many businesses and industries in not in ownership but by fiat and order. Walt Disney was fond of telling the story of driving up to his studio in 1942 and discovering it was not being run by a general who strong suggested what films the studio would be making to assist in the war effort.

I really do not know if such efforts could fairly be labeled as "collectivist aspects" as much as they are for the convenience of government administration.
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Authoritarian and serving the state is as far as I went. You realize this describes how socialism and communism works, too (supposedly on behalf of the people:lamo)?
 
snakestretcher said:
The Mises Institute? Are you seriously citing a right-wing 'think tank' which espouses white supremacy, racism as beneficial, economic recessions as good, and empirical science as nonsense? Dear god!:lamo

Ludwig von Mises Institute - RationalWiki
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Authors on Mises Institute are all people who hold doctorates in everything from economics to philosophy. The author behind the article in question is Professor Emeritus of Economics. That is trillions times more credible than anything you will ever link.

The Mises Institute has never taken a stance for white supremacy. You even had to Wiki it to know what it was, which tells you are absolutely clueless on the matter.

Do you even know who Ludwig von Mises was? Do you know what his relation to Nazi Germany was?
 
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Dacke said:
Authors on Mises Institute are all people who hold doctorates in everything from economics to philosophy. The author behind the article in question is Professor Emeritus of Economics. That is trillions times more credible than anything you will ever link.

The Mises Institute has never taken a stance for white supremacy. You even had to Wiki it to know what it was, which tells you are absolutely clueless on the matter.

Do you even know who Ludwig von Mises was? Do you know what his relation to Nazi Germany was?
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"It is vain to deny that up to now certain races have contributed nothing or very little to the development of civilization and can, in this sense, be called inferior" Ludwig von Mises.
I couldn't care less what his, or other's, 'credentials' are. They are irrelevant to one's attitudes and beliefs.
 
snakestretcher said:
"It is vain to deny that up to now certain races have contributed nothing or very little to the development of civilization and can, in this sense, be called inferior" Ludwig von Mises.
I couldn't care less what his, or other's, 'credentials' are. They are irrelevant to one's attitudes and beliefs.
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Or you could just read the entire chapter instead of just cherry-picking a single sentence, taken completely out of context to misrepresent Mises' view on racism; Economics and the Revolt Against Reason | Mises Institute


Apparently, Mises, who had to flee from the Nazis, is a Nazi in your mind. :lamo:

And what do you know about the ideas of Mises and Libertarian theory anyways?
 
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Quag said:
No your repsonse was illogcial, one does not follow the other.
BTW I'm not a liberal.
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Who is and who is not a socialist is what this thread is about. Hitler claimed to be a socialist, you insist he is not. Bernie claims to be a socialist. Is he?
 
Hitler was a fascist right wing dictator.. History and historians have proven that for decades.

The fact that this thread has gone on for 40+ pages just proves how much control and sway the Conservative media has over a large part of Conservative Republicans nowadays. The daily drum beat from the Con media that all libs and people on the left are evil and traitors, then and now, has brainwashed today's conservatives.

As we are finding out today's Cons are easily swayed and lead around by their noses. Trump was correct.. They are truly 'poorly educated'..
 
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