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Yes, hospitals do lie in reporting

Ethel2 said:
The mask issue is already decided. So is the hydroxychloroquine issue and the ivermectin issue. If miraculously new information becomes available to challenge what we already KNOW then I will consider it at the time. Any believer in science should do the same.
Sorry
Not going to waste my time debating facts.
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The closed mind close up .

Ivermectin and HCQ have both had WHO and CDC clearance after the Fake News was exposed and binned . Guess you never followed up after the initial Fake News . Even the Lancet had to withdraw their HCQ comments /findings

As for masks . If you believe they do more good than bad , that is your choice .

But for me the scientific process is the benchmark . Not pseudo or deliberately engineered misinformation .
 
Monica33 said:
The closed mind close up .

Ivermectin and HCQ have both had WHO and CDC clearance after the Fake News was exposed and binned . Guess you never followed up after the initial Fake News . Even the Lancet had to withdraw their HCQ comments /findings

As for masks . If you believe they do more good than bad , that is your choice .

But for me the scientific process is the benchmark . Not pseudo or deliberately engineered misinformation .
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Hahaha! "Deliberately engineered information". You mean like your "gene therapy bio-weapon" information? You're hilarious; please tell us your posts are satirical.
 
Big Eye said:
That’s disingenuous ...the point is that many people have died with a positive Covid test ( it must be on the death certificate) but have died of something else. Covid does not kill most people that get it....and that includes people that have been hit by busses.
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What's "disingenuous" is saying this: "In the U.K. up to November last year 70,000 people had died WITH Covid...it turns out only 4500 or so of them had only “Covid” on their death certificate."

The fact that only 4,500 of 70,000 had ONLY COVID on the death certificate tells us nothing at all about the deaths for which COVID was the actual cause, and it's because "COVID" doesn't kill anyone any more than a proper death certificate lists "gun shot" as the only cause of death. They die of heart failure, or liver failure, or acute respiratory failure etc....... So you're spreading bullshit.

If you want to argue that there are deaths attributed to COVID for which COVID wasn't the proper underlying cause of death, you cannot use that crap statistic to make your point. It only persuades ignorant people, so you don't know what you're talking about or you're willfully spreading lies.

Look at the mortality rate in the U.K. ( the ONS are about as trust worthy as it gets), this hardly screams out catastrophic pandemic...we‘re back to levels of mortality that we saw in the early 2000’s ...and people were not shitting themselves then.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/tran...mofinformationfoi/deathsintheukfrom1990to2020
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This is also "disingenuous." Your country like ours took unprecedented steps to control the pandemic. And what you're suggesting is, yes, the death rate on any level took a big jump in 2020 compared to the trend, even with those efforts, and that shows COVID was a big nothing! It's frankly stupid. The comparison, if you can make one, is what the death rate would have been had life not changed at all in the UK, how many people would have died of COVID. THAT is what gives us an idea of the risks of COVID.
 
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joko104 said:
I don't know how many deaths have been caused by the covid-19 restrictions - the months people were denied physical exams or any surgery than could be put off - so cancer not detected until stage 4 or other ailments not detected or treated, nor how many suicides, stress heart attacks for their financial lives destroyed by dictatorial edicts, health failures for lack of housing, decent food, electricity and the rest from covid-19 bioterrorism making tens of millions unemployed.

The plutrocrat's 24/7 bio-terrorism campaign for their profiting trillions and taking control of government, while destroying their competitors by the hundreds of thousands and destroying tens of millions of families economic situation has causes massive health damage and death - since you asked my opinion.
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That's a lot of words to say you have nothing to support your assertions.
 
Big Eye said:
Read the ****ing ONS numbers...****ing hell this ain't rocket science...
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The ****ing ONS numbers don't support your ****ing assertions. That's ****ing obvious.
 
So if deaths are inflated, I guess there’s no scandal involving Andrew Cuomo and nursing homes.

Good work, everyone!
 
snakestretcher said:
You're getting shafted then. All my medical needs are free at the point of delivery. No bills, no co-pays, no small print, no refusal of cover for pre-existing conditions. Free prescriptions, ambulance rides, surgery, hospital stays, physio, doctor/dentist/optician visits. The horrors of nationalised medicine, right?
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But then your taxes are much higher and your healthcare is rationed.
 
Monica33 said:
The closed mind close up .

Ivermectin and HCQ have both had WHO and CDC clearance after the Fake News was exposed and binned . Guess you never followed up after the initial Fake News . Even the Lancet had to withdraw their HCQ comments /findings

As for masks . If you believe they do more good than bad , that is your choice .

But for me the scientific process is the benchmark . Not pseudo or deliberately engineered misinformation .
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There are no intersecting points for debate when one person lives in the real world that is based on real science and the other person lives in an alternate reality based on conspiracy theories, lies, and concocted science. If you want to take HDQ or ivermectin have at it-if you can find a quack doctor like Scott Atlas to prescribe it-its only you who will suffer the consequences.
But you WILL wear a mask when your local mandates demand it for the protection of others.
 
DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
But then your taxes are much higher and your healthcare is rationed.
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Our healthcare is rationed now under a for-profit medical system. That’s exactly what insurance companies do to create margins.
 
Big Eye said:
There is a weird thing whereby those on the left are desperate that the Covid deaths should be as high as possible...they really want them to be as bad as possible.
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What's weird are people on the right desperate to trivialize the pandemic and the death toll from it.

I can read the CDC 'excess death' numbers, updated every week. Here's the link: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Screen Shot 2021-03-05 at 8.49.33 AM.webp

If you don't trust death certificates, in this country you can look at that and get to roughly the same numbers. So far it's over 500,000 dead in excess of trends, and that's with closing businesses, social distancing, travel all but ended, and more. Why would anyone want to trivialize 500,000 dead people? What's your goal in doing so?
 
Aunt Antifa said:
Our healthcare is rationed now under a for-profit medical system. That’s exactly what insurance companies do to create margins.
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Another reason not to take you seriously. For profit is commerce, not rationing. Under your logic, bubble gum would be considered rationed. Rationing is restricting access to goods based on only so much being available to offer.
 
DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
Another reason not to take you seriously. For profit is commerce, not rationing. Under your logic, bubble gum would be considered rationed. Rationing is restricting access to goods based on only so much being available to offer.
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This is incorrect. We restrict access to good based on ability to afford those goods. This becomes a problem when healthcare is the good in question. Insurance companies, as any for profit enterprise does. must create margins to generate profit. They do this by denying healthcare, that’s how insurance companies make money - by NOT paying out claims.

You don’t seem to understand how our capitalist based system works, so you’re welcome.
 
Aunt Antifa said:
This is incorrect. We restrict access to good based on ability to afford those goods. This becomes a problem when healthcare is the good in question. Insurance companies, as any for profit enterprise does. must create margins to generate profit. They do this by denying healthcare, that’s how insurance companies make money - by NOT paying out claims.

You don’t seem to understand how our capitalist based system works, so you’re welcome.
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No, actually not. Medicare care is expensive in the US, however nobody is denied care. if you do not have health insurance, medicare, medicaid, VA Healthcare, etc , you still get healthcare and are billed based on ability to pay. Nobody is refused healthcare. Anymore posts continuing to claim healthcare in the US is rationed, will not be answered.
 
DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
No, actually not. Medicare care is expensive in the US, however nobody is denied care. if you do not have health insurance, medicare, medicaid, VA Healthcare, etc , you still get healthcare and are billed based on ability to pay. Nobody is refused healthcare. Anymore posts continuing to claim healthcare in the US is rationed, will not be answered.
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That’s simply not true as most folks find the costs a barrier to entry, so they don’t even pursue it. That’s rationing. Then there are insurance companies that will absolutely deny a service if the determine it’s unnecessary, and that determination will be based on cost, not medicine. Rationing.

Then there are those who do pursue it despite the costs and wind up here:

41616AE7-61EE-41C6-A34A-68213FA0BE47.jpeg
www.theguardian.com

'I live on the street now': how Americans fall into medical bankruptcy

Having health insurance is often not enough to save Americans from massive debts when serious illness strikes
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

(Feel free to not comment on a subject you clearly don’t understand ever again. Somehow I don’t think that’s anyone‘s loss here. Y’all are weird with your “threats”)
 
DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
No, actually not. Medicare care is expensive in the US, however nobody is denied care. if you do not have health insurance, medicare, medicaid, VA Healthcare, etc , you still get healthcare and are billed based on ability to pay. Nobody is refused healthcare. Anymore posts continuing to claim healthcare in the US is rationed, will not be answered.
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So many fallacies in this post.

Please use your favorite search engine to educate yourself about the prevalence in the US of medical bankruptcy, medical financial hardship, surprise medical bills and people skipping medical care because of cost.
 
DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
But then your taxes are much higher and your healthcare is rationed.
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No it isn't rationed; where did you read that? You've been duped if that's what you believe, and ALL my medical needs are free at the point of delivery including complex surgery. I walk in to hospital, get fixed, walk out, wallet intact-and I don't have to pay exorbitant rates in private insurance with all the attendant caveats for pre-existing conditions. As for taxation it isn't quite as cut and dry as you think...
.
 
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DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
Another reason not to take you seriously. For profit is commerce, not rationing. Under your logic, bubble gum would be considered rationed. Rationing is restricting access to goods based on only so much being available to offer.
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That's the case with any good or service. There is only X amount of healthcare services available right now, limited hospitals, limited numbers of doctors, etc. and access to that is rationed by ability to pay, either personally or through your insurance. Those limits will always exist. It's impossible to provide 100% of the healthcare services anyone would want to 100% of the population. So like all other scarce goods, and all goods are scarce, healthcare IS rationed.
 
DopeyJoeIsSenile said:
No, actually not. Medicare care is expensive in the US, however nobody is denied care. if you do not have health insurance, medicare, medicaid, VA Healthcare, etc , you still get healthcare and are billed based on ability to pay. Nobody is refused healthcare. Anymore posts continuing to claim healthcare in the US is rationed, will not be answered.
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That's just not true. No one is refused 'emergency' care but that's only part of the healthcare system.

And if you don't believe healthcare is rationed, you simply don't have any idea how the economy works, and are clueless how the healthcare system works. Read your own insurance policy - it rations care by limiting what it will cover. They all have limits, and those limits are a form of rationing. Maybe it's that you get only 30 days of addiction treatment. If you need or want 31, your care is being rationed.
 
JasperL said:
That's just not true. No one is refused 'emergency' care but that's only part of the healthcare system.

And if you don't believe healthcare is rationed, you simply don't have any idea how the economy works, and are clueless how the healthcare system works. Read your own insurance policy - it rations care by limiting what it will cover. They all have limits, and those limits are a form of rationing. Maybe it's that you get only 30 days of addiction treatment. If you need or want 31, your care is being rationed.
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That is ridiculous on so many levels. Your insurance policy is a contract. You pay a given rate for a given amount of coverage. That some items are not covered does not mean that they are unavailable to you. That is not rationing. Rationing is the government limiting goods or services based on availability, not cost. As for your suggestion that only emergency care cannot be refused, that's bogus as well. The majority that show up in emergency rooms are not emergencies and most end up as outpatient.
 
JasperL said:
That's the case with any good or service. There is only X amount of healthcare services available right now, limited hospitals, limited numbers of doctors, etc. and access to that is rationed by ability to pay, either personally or through your insurance. Those limits will always exist. It's impossible to provide 100% of the healthcare services anyone would want to 100% of the population. So like all other scarce goods, and all goods are scarce, healthcare IS rationed.
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It's still not rationing. There is more then enough healthcare available in the US, at least during normal times. The pandemic is an exception. at some points hospitals have been overwhelmed. Otherwise, all services are available and cost for goods and services does not translate to rationing. The only healthcare rationing that exists in the US is organ transplants.
 
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