YARS has been loaded.

[Juin]

The mere existence of nukes implies a threat under certain circumstances. I'm sure Russia (and China) is aware of the consequences of striking the US first. That should be sufficient to prevent an actual nuclear war.

How can you guarantee that their strike is not based on a perception on their part that a strike at them from the US is coming? They may very well strike in the belief that they are actually striking back.

 

[Juin]

This is the ridiculous mindset of many posts here. No one is championing appeasement but rather hoping for objectivity in the posts.

It can also be argued that it has been Russia in a state of continuous appeasement in the face of Nato expanding closer and closer to her borders. There will be hell to pay if say China attempted same expansions like Nato in Central America.

 

[Juin]

If Russia stayed in its borders, no one would care about them.

That would not be the smart play on Russia's part at all. Just stay inside Russian Federation proper while a hostile military alliance uncoils itself from the Baltics, through Belarus, Ukraine, to Georgia! It was dumb for Russia to have allowed Nato to implant itself on the Baltic coast in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia; but then Russia was on its back post implosion of Soviet Union. If Russia stayed within her borders as you recommend Nato would have implanted itself in Belarus, Ukraine and Georgia. Talking about a garot around the neck of Russia.

If you were the President of Russia you would allow a foreign hostile military alliance to place a noose around your neck?

That is not Russia specific. The Soviet Union chosed to place nukes in Cuba back in '62, should the US have followed your advice and stayed within her borders????

geez lol

 

[Juin]

The right for Ukrainians to live in a free, democratic country independent from Russia is more important than Russia's so-called security concerns.

Are you speaking for yourself or for Russians? It is for Russians to determine what are their security concerns, and to act to address those concerns.

 

[Fledermaus]

Are you speaking for yourself or for Russians? It is for Russians to determine what are their security concerns, and to act to address those concerns.

Russian wants don't Trump Ukraine rights.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Still not willing to address the falsehoods you are using to push your foolishness, I see.

Clue, it is not our war. We made it ours.

Can you explain the point you think you're making with this post?

for bonus points:
Do you ever wonder why Ukraine wants to join NATO?

​

 

[Simon W. Moon]

The US is threatening the use of nuclear weapons.

Because we have them?
And because they are one of the known deterrents?

Or howd'ya mean?

 

[FreeStorm84]

It is for Russians to determine what are their security concerns, and to act to address those concerns.

No doubt. It was certainly for Germans to determine what are their security concerns (1930s-40s), and to act to address those concerns (by invading Poland).

 

[Simon W. Moon]

This is the ridiculous mindset of many posts here. No one is championing appeasement but rather hoping for objectivity in the posts.

Can you objectively explain how Putin invading Ukraine is objectively different from Hitler invading Czechoslovakia, Mr. Chamberlain?​

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Spin your wheel of fortune
Shuffle the cards, blow on the dice
are you ready for nuclear war
or do you value life?

No one is ready for nuclear war.

Not even Putin.

Also, it's a false choice.​

Giving in to Putin's demands for Ukraine fails to lessen the threat of nuclear war.​

At best, it would delay the prospect until Putin's next special operation.
And it would encourage more of Putin's special operations.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

You're requesting a source for something obvious.

Obviously it's not obvious

 

[KevinKohler]

Ridiculous post. Totally ridiculous. Clearly this posts shows a complete lack of understanding the situation and logic.

Think of it like this.

We had twice last century lost millions of people to aggression from South America.
We felt it imperative to leave central America as a buffer.
South America expanded its control to include central American and has gotten in bed with Mexico, a place that was part of the USA and still had English speakers who wanted to unite with us.

How the **** do you think we'd respond.
Keep in mind how we like to invade countries for significantly less security concerns.

Place yourself in others shoes or you will never understand situations.

Citations of Russia losing millions of people to aggression from NATO countries?

Or are you referring to Germany, the reason NATO came into existence in the first place?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Read the history, pull out the old maps, realize what Russian has long said.

We threaten Russia with the expansion of NATO and our influence in Ukraine.

Remind us again about WHY these countries WANT to join NATO, please.​

Are you willing to state their reasons aloud?

Or no?

Can you image if the shoe were in the other foot?
Heck, we invade foreign countries all the time with far far less security concerns.

I know we do it "all the time", but I have forgotten...
Remind me of the last time we annexed territory via warfare.

 

[KevinKohler]

Its not my world view. It us an objective analysis.

Peace ✌

Little more than that, I'm afraid...being as you're the only one here espousing said analysis.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

The right for Ukrainians to live in a free, democratic country independent from Russia is more important than Russia's so-called security concerns.
This debate really boils down to values.
You don't think the right for Ukrainians to be free is more important than Russia's so-called security concerns.

tbf, there are also a ****ton of worldwide security concerns in re the Ukrainian breadbasket
and likely some other things I'm currently too ignorant to realize

 

[KevinKohler]

It can also be argued that it has been Russia in a state of continuous appeasement in the face of Nato expanding closer and closer to her borders. There will be hell to pay if say China attempted same expansions like Nato in Central America.

NATO is a sovereign nation, like China and Russia?

When did this happen?

Citation?

 

[KevinKohler]

That would not be the smart play on Russia's part at all. Just stay inside Russian Federation proper while a hostile military alliance uncoils itself from the Baltics, through Belarus, Ukraine, to Georgia! It was dumb for Russia to have allowed Nato to implant itself on the Baltic coast in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia; but then Russia was on its back post implosion of Soviet Union. If Russia stayed within her borders as you recommend Nato would have implanted itself in Belarus, Ukraine and Georgia. Talking about a garot around the neck of Russia.

If you were the President of Russia you would allow a foreign hostile military alliance to place a noose around your neck?

That is not Russia specific. The Soviet Union chosed to place nukes in Cuba back in '62, should the US have followed your advice and stayed within her borders????

geez lol

Hostile?

NATO is hostile to Russia?

Citation?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Ridiculous post. Totally ridiculous. Clearly this posts shows a complete lack of understanding the situation and logic.
Think of it like this.
We had twice last century lost millions of people to aggression from South America.
We felt it imperative to leave central America as a buffer.
South America expanded its control to include central American and has gotten in bed with Mexico, a place that was part of the USA and still had English speakers who wanted to unite with us.
How the **** do you think we'd respond.
Keep in mind how we like to invade countries for significantly less security concerns.
Place yourself in others shoes or you will never understand situations.

In your scenario...

Why did Central America decide they WANTED to get in bed with South America?

Please tell us...
Why does Ukraine want to join NATO?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

And its important to not put Putin in a corner when he feels this is his best option.

Putin's a big boy.

Please be decent enough to assume Putin has some agency of his own​

rather than being just an American puppet we can pick up and put wherever we want.​

Putin chose his own corner.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

A very emotional uneducated post.

Too bad so few think independent of tribe mantras.

The only independent thinkers are you and all the people who think like you,
right?

Everyone else is just mindless, tribal sheep, yes?

Why do you even bother playing Prometheus?
Perhaps it's best you go sit quietly and righteously with your feelings of superiority.
Why waste your time here among us trogs?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

It can also be argued that it has been Russia in a state of continuous appeasement in the face of Nato expanding closer and closer to her borders. There will be hell to pay if say China attempted same expansions like Nato in Central America.

Are you able to tell us?

Why are countries bordering Russia trying to join NATO?

 

[Simon W. Moon]

No doubt. It was certainly for Germans to determine what are their security concerns (1930s-40s), and to act to address those concerns (by invading Poland).

Back then, Germany only wanted piece.
; )

 

[Fledermaus]

Back then, Germany only wanted piece.
; )

Piece of Poland
Piece of Czechoslovakia

 

[FreeStorm84]

Piece of Poland
Piece of Czechoslovakia

And France, Britain, America even!

 

[Mr Person]

It's nothing but political posturing. The big red nuke button is a big red suicide button for every country with nukes. Even the United States.

I have a feeling Putin might just test the waters. Fire off one lower-yield weapon, not at a city but perhaps at an area he deems Ukraine's troops are highly concentrated. See what the reaction is.

Because... would we really act on MAD in that situation?




But I don't think that has anything to do with OP's framing of the situation. We're not making them do that, if they do it. They are the clear aggressor and they've got to be stopped one way or another, or they'll keep right on doing it. We've seen this movie before.