XL Pipeline

[AGENT J]

I find the whole dustup about shutting down Keystone....stunning for its stupidity. Its like oil is this magic knee jerk word that turns off peoples minds and turns on their gonads. Goof post up there at #16 by the way.

thanks
what confuses me about so much in the world, political etc
how does one get so emotionally invested, so defensive, so angry and so arrogant over a topic that seems very important to them but then show they basically know absolutely nothing about it???

That's just weird to me, I'm not wired that way
it reminds me of people that have bad health and say they take a blue pill at 3, and red pill at 5, and two white pills before bed but have no clue of their names, which each one does and why . . . .
its just not something im not capable of

 

[justoneman]

All this benefits Canada, how does it help us? Also the majority of this oil goes to China via Venezuela from our ports, how is that good for us? Again, less Hannity please.

Venezuela has their own deposit of tar sand oil. They refine their own oil. Canada has 9 refineries that process tar oil. That which goes to Texas refineries is made into fuel some of which is exported. The idea in your head that tar oil is sent to Texas ports to be shipped to venezuela to be refined and then sent to China is....foolish.

 

[PeteEU]

Were the XL pipeline not stopped by Biden it would have been completed by now. Oil from Canada and North Dakota would be flowing to refineries. Thousands of good paying jobs would have been created. The price of gasoline would be lower. This is the fault of Joe Biden.

What will be happening one year from now? What further problems might there be, that would be avoided by increased Noth American production. That pipeline needs to be completed.

There is already a pipeline, so the oil is already flowing...And there would not have been thousands of good paying jobs.... not even close.

As for price.. you do realize that the price is a global one, based on global supply and demand right? The little amount of oil from Canada would never be able to replace the amount of oil from Russia. Canada would have to triple the production to replace Russian oil on the world market.. just saying.

 

[justoneman]

Not any more. I gave mine up 12 years ago.

You don't have a car and you opinion is we in the US, at $4.50 a gallon, pay far too little for gas. That's real nice.

 

[MamboDervish]

Canada doesn't build refineries. Neither does the USA.
This whole situation is on the oil companies.

Of course it is - just as the price of gas at the pumps is entirely on the oil companies - not on Biden.

Oh, and It's a tad more than 300 miles from Fort McMurray to Vancouver. More like 1,500.

Really? Perhaps by road, but the pipeline could be tunneled. In any event, even in the worst case, it's still a fraction of the distance from Houston to the Athabasca.

 

[US&THEM]

Not anymore.


Probably the ones in Louisianna that were built to handle the acidic sludge oil from Venezuela. Given the political situation, that source is offline for the foreseeable future.


I don't think the one in Illinois can handle the tar-sand oil. It's very abrasive. Texas refineries are a possibility. Anything on the gulf coast. makes sense.

Surprise! The U.S. Is Still Energy Independent

The Energy Information Administration recently posted December export numbers that showed the U.S remained energy independent in 2021.

www.forbes.com

But but Trump

When President Trump took over, the downward trend continued. During President Trump’s last year in office, the net import number turned negative. It is therefore true that we gained energy independence (per this definition of net imports) under President Trump. Net exports in 2020 averaged 635,000 BPD for the year.

 

[Cope]

Somebody has been watching too much Hannity again. How is extending a pipeline that is already bringing crude from Canada to the US just to make it cheaper and more efficient for Canada going to help alleviate our problems here? These are the same people that think Biden controls the price of gas around the world.

Less Hannity, more fact finding please.

Supply meet demand.
If demand is met, prices fall. If supply does not, then prices rise.

I am surprised people do not know nor understand this. Global supply.

We could buffer ourselves from that global market by producing and refining the oil right here, to keep here and sell the surplus. But to do that oil prices have to be high since the cost of doing so is higher here than in third world countries around the globe.

 

[MamboDervish]

Evangelical christians have nothing on environmental zealots.

Evangelical christians have faith in a book written by men thousands of years ago, and other supporting superstitions.
Environmental zealots have faith in contemporary data, and observable reality.
Big difference.

 

[eohrnberger]

Of course it is - just as the price of gas at the pumps is entirely on the oil companies - not on Biden.

Not quite.

25 Biden policies raising gas prices and other energy costs - Americans for Prosperity

These twenty-five Biden administration policies are affecting gas prices, home heating costs, and other energy-related burdens families face. Read more.

americansforprosperity.org

Biden's assault on the energy industry

You missed another post of mine which explained your question.​

Here is a CNN link that in my opinion does a good job telling both sides of the issue.​

​

https://money.cnn.com/2011/06/06/news/economy/oil_drilling_leases/index.htm​

​

The Biden administration is placing road blocks making it difficult for these oil producers.​

​

U.S. Treasury's Yellen to push development banks to step up climate financing effort

U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen on Sunday signaled she will push multilateral development banks further away from fossil fuel projects, saying she would ask them to "increase their climate ambition" to support the Paris Agreement on carbon emissions reductions.

www.reuters.com

Yellen Urges Development Banks To Stop Fossil Fuel Funding | OilPrice.com

U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen is prepared to gather together the heads of development banks to persuade them to stop fossil fuel project funding

oilprice.com

​

You got the Treasury Secretary pushing banks away from fossil fuel projects. How do they get funding?​

The road blocks and regulations this administration has placed on oil producers scares investors away.​

Really? Perhaps by road, but the pipeline could be tunneled. In any event, even in the worst case, it's still a fraction of the distance from Houston to the Athabasca.

 

[eohrnberger]

Not any more. I gave mine up 12 years ago.

Which is actually beside the point. Higher gas prices translate to higher prices of all groceries and other deliverable goods, which I also pay for down the line, so I'm not immune to the impact of my own suggestion. But since the first times I visited Europe and Canada 45 years ago, I've known that we pay far too little at the pump, and that discount is all deliberately imaginary and misleading, in part due to fossil fuel lobbying.

The fact is our tax dollars - my tax dollars - subsidize the petroleum industry, and always have - even though I gave up my car. AND our road building and maintenance subsidizes the petroleum industry! AND our taxes pay for cleanups of toxic fossil fuel spills and dumps, which also subsidizes the petroleum industry! AND we all pay more for healthcare, because petrochemicals are toxic to human life, contributing to our illnesses, and essentially subsidizing the petroleum industry yet again! If we were paying what gasoline actually costs us - in hidden tax subsidies and healthcare costs - we'd be paying $12-$15/gal at the pumps . . or more. For proof of the fact that we pay too little, one need look no further than the % of SUVs sold in the US, when compared to the rest of western civilization. If Americans can afford to tank up in something that gets 15-20 mpg, then we're paying way too little for gas.

Leading SUV markets worldwide by country | Statista

Between China and the United States, around 8.5 million new sport utility vehicles (SUVs) were bought in the first half of 2019.

www.statista.com

If you want gas to be half the price it costs you now, then I have a simple solution. Drive something that gets twice the miles per gallon!

World Motor Gasoline Consumption by Country (Thousand Barrels per Day)

www.indexmundi.com

Do your really want to pay less for gas? Then tell these companies they should make less profit! Here's more than 1.13 TRILLION DOLLAR$ . . . . . in PROFIT - and that's for a single year! Why don't you blame them for higher gas prices?!!?

• Saudi Aramco – $230bn in 2020. ...
• Royal Dutch Shell – $181bn in 2020. ...
• BP – $180bn in 2020. ...
• ExxonMobil - $179bn in 2020. ...
• TotalEnergies, formerly known as Total – $120bn in 2020. ...
• Chevron - $94bn in 2020. ...
• Gazprom - $85bn in 2020. ...
• Marathon - $70bn in 2020.

An interesting counter point to your post.

Just another false story revealed. They tell us we spend too much on fossil fuel subsidies but what are we doing for renewables.​

Renewable Energy Sources Received 25 Times More in Taxpayer Subsidies per Energy Unit Produced Than Fossil Fuels in 2010

In 2010, renewable energy received $14 billion of government taxpayer subsidies, while fossil fuels energy sources received only $4 billion of taxpayer handouts that year, according to estimates by the Energy Information Administration (EIA) and reported in today’s WSJ by Bjorn Lomborg in an...

www.aei.org

COP26: How much is spent supporting fossil fuels and green energy?

Despite green energy investment promises, many governments still financially back the fossil fuel industry.

www.bbc.com

 

[Grand Mal]

Of course it is - just as the price of gas at the pumps is entirely on the oil companies - not on Biden.

Really? Perhaps by road, but the pipeline could be tunneled. In any event, even in the worst case, it's still a fraction of the distance from Houston to the Athabasca.

You're right, It's 716 miles by air.
There's a pipeline to Vancouver that's being doubled now. There's a lot of resistance to increasing the tanker traffic in Georgia Strait though, and through Vancouver harbour. There's a tank farm and refinery in Port Moody, at the head of Burrard inlet but the tankers have to pass under road bridges at First and Second Narrows and a rail bridge at Second Narrows.
I don't know why the oil companies don't expand their refinery capacity in Canada. I suspect refineries are very expensive to build and they're not sure how long it would take to recoup that investment, or even if they would.

 

[Jay59]

Starting an OP with a false statement isn't a good move.

Fact Check-Though Keystone XL Pipeline had secured most of its funding, it was only 8% constructed

In the weeks following U.S. President Joe Biden’s decision to scrap the Keystone XL oil pipeline, posts on social media have claimed that the project “was in Phase 4 & just about completed” and that it had been “paid for” by the time Biden “pulled the plug.” While it is...

www.reuters.com

It isn't false and your citation can be used to prove it. The project had cleared all the financial and regulatory hurdles, cleared the route, set the foundations, and was beginning the laying of pipe. All the OP said is that this phase, that was 8% a year ago, would have been completed by now.

I was wondering if you were just a POE, you've just confirmed it.

This laughing at facts is a problem for you. Have you sought help.

Eh. That's not a cite. I took it upon myself to look. Yes, there are places in ND and Montana with resources, and speculators had their eyes on TC Energy. That doesn't mean they would have been producing nor connected to the XL by now.

He answered your question and you confirmed that it is good information

Canada doesn't build refineries. Neither does the USA.
This whole situation is on the oil companies.

It's on the environmental lobby that makes construction impossible. They make it difficult to simply maintain what is already built.

Surprise! The U.S. Is Still Energy Independent

The Energy Information Administration recently posted December export numbers that showed the U.S remained energy independent in 2021.

www.forbes.com

That post was on chemical engineering. Why the change of subject?

But but Trump

You brought him up. Why?

When President Trump took over, the downward trend continued. During President Trump’s last year in office, the net import number turned negative. It is therefore true that we gained energy independence (per this definition of net imports) under President Trump. Net exports in 2020 averaged 635,000 BPD for the year.

2020 was different. Can you think of a reason? It's not like there was a pandemic or anything, right?

 

[Airyaman]

This laughing at facts is a problem for you. Have you sought help.

Keystone XL finally gets the go-ahead, after Alberta promises to help foot the bill | Oil Sands Magazine

TC Energy finally sanctioned the Keystone XL project, after the province of Alberta agreed to provide a $7.5 billion cash injection.

www.oilsandsmagazine.com

Construction is expected to officially kick-off in the next few weeks, with an in-service date now pegged for 2023.

https://www.keystonexl.com/siteassets/pdfs/fact-sheets/keystone-xl-canada.pdf

Q3 2023 – Anticipated in-service date

Did you say something about facts?

 

[MamboDervish]

An interesting counter point to your post.

That's not a counterpoint to my post. In fact no real counter point to any point I made. Investment in renewables reduces our dependence on oil - both foreign and domestic, because you see, the thing about renewables is - THEY'RE RENEWABLE !!! See the difference?
No .... I suspect not.
And what could possibly be more laughable than an alleged rebuttal from Americans for Prosperity - A KOCH BROTHERS stink tank?!!?



Aaahhh - we laughed and laughed and laughed at that one. Do you think they may have more than a vested interest in fossil fuel profits? Hmm? Thanks for the guffaws. Like I said, not on Biden at all.

No response to how the price at the pump might be mitigated by oil companies themselves - were they not making MORE THAN A TRILLION DOLLAR$ - A YEAR - IN PROFITS !??!
No response to the financial impact of fossil fuel products on the environment - nor the ever rising costs of cleanup.
No response to oil lobbying money owning our politicians.
No response to the health impacts on our citizens, their children, their grandchildren . . . . .

 

[Craig234]

Were the XL pipeline not stopped by Biden it would have been completed by now. Oil from Canada and North Dakota would be flowing to refineries. Thousands of good paying jobs would have been created. The price of gasoline would be lower. This is the fault of Joe Biden.

What will be happening one year from now? What further problems might there be, that would be avoided by increased Noth American production. That pipeline needs to be completed.

Nope. Good for Biden killing it.

We don't need that Koch brothers windfall and harm to the planet. There are already apparently thousands of unused drilling permits.

 

[MamboDervish]

I don't know why the oil companies don't expand their refinery capacity in Canada. I suspect refineries are very expensive to build and they're not sure how long it would take to recoup that investment, or even if they would.

Perhaps it's because lobbying American politicians to do their bidding, and subsidize their pipeline, amounts to a fraction of the cost, and a fraction of the risk.

 

[bave]

Venezuela has their own deposit of tar sand oil. They refine their own oil. Canada has 9 refineries that process tar oil. That which goes to Texas refineries is made into fuel some of which is exported. The idea in your head that tar oil is sent to Texas ports to be shipped to venezuela to be refined and then sent to China is....foolish.

Not really accurate.

Gulf coast refineries, specifically, need a mix of heavy sour oil to operate at peak efficiency. Venezuelan refineries cannot process their own heavy sour crude. So a lot of Venezuelan oil used to go to Galveston to get mixed and then refined. Also, a lot of light sweet oil went from the Gulf to Venezuela in order for them to process their own crude. Since Venezuelan oil has come largely off the market these refineries are using more Northern Ural crude, which is similarly sour to replace this VZ oil.

 

[Jay59]

Keystone XL finally gets the go-ahead, after Alberta promises to help foot the bill | Oil Sands Magazine

TC Energy finally sanctioned the Keystone XL project, after the province of Alberta agreed to provide a $7.5 billion cash injection.

www.oilsandsmagazine.com

https://www.keystonexl.com/siteassets/pdfs/fact-sheets/keystone-xl-canada.pdf

Did you say something about facts?

You are proving OP's point. So, you were laughing at facts.

 

[Airyaman]

You are proving OP's point. So, you were laughing at facts.

He said it would be finished by now. My calendar says it's March 2022, not 3Q 2023.

 

[justoneman]

Nope. Good for Biden killing it.

We don't need that Koch brothers windfall and harm to the planet. There are already apparently thousands of unused drilling permits.

Again most of the leased land has no oil under it. Companies spend millions trying to locate the deposits. This bs about already having land leases is stupid.

 

[AGENT J]

SO two pages in and the lies, propaganda false narratives in the OP are still getting destroyed LOL
I love watching these nutter posts go down in flames and people mock them right, left and center.

The reality remains if the XL could have magically been done and working last year the globe would still have its oil/gas issue

 

[Airyaman]

SO two pages in and the lies, propaganda false narratives in the OP are still getting destroyed LOL
I love watching these nutter posts go down in flames and people mock them right, left and center.

The reality remains if the XL could have magically been done and working last year the globe would still have its oil/gas issue

Well, tbf, I think the OP is a POE so there is that...

 

[AGENT J]

Well, tbf, I think the OP is a POE so there is that...

the majority of honest, educated objective posters right, left and center probably agree lol

 

[IQ57]

Under Trump gas less than $2, no credit.

Under Biden gas over $4, no blame.

I think this is simple enough to understand.

 

[Jay59]

He said it would be finished by now. My calendar says it's March 2022, not 3Q 2023.

OK.

The reaction was excessive for that sort of quibble

Well, tbf, I think the OP is a POE so there is that...

Now we get the real reason. You wanted to Trump all over him.

the majority of honest, educated objective posters right, left and center probably agree lol

You too it seems.