Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

[bomberfox]

Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’

www.theguardian.com

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’


Wyoming is faced by a transition to renewable energy that’s gathering pace across America, but it has now come up with a novel and controversial plan to protect its mining industry – sue other states that refuse to take its coal.
A new state law has created a $1.2m fund to be used by Wyoming’s governor to take legal action against other states that opt to power themselves with clean energy such as solar and wind, in order to meet targets to tackle the climate crisis, rather than burn Wyoming’s coal.
==========================================================================
Interesting move. Can someone or some corporation be forced to buy something that they want to stop buying? Can a state sue them if they refuse?

Thats highly dubious but typical for this GOP

 

[mrjurrs]

Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’

www.theguardian.com

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’


Wyoming is faced by a transition to renewable energy that’s gathering pace across America, but it has now come up with a novel and controversial plan to protect its mining industry – sue other states that refuse to take its coal.
A new state law has created a $1.2m fund to be used by Wyoming’s governor to take legal action against other states that opt to power themselves with clean energy such as solar and wind, in order to meet targets to tackle the climate crisis, rather than burn Wyoming’s coal.
==========================================================================
Interesting move. Can someone or some corporation be forced to buy something that they want to stop buying? Can a state sue them if they refuse?

WY should look up the difference between market and command economy.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Coal is a vital part of Alaska's economy. We sell most of it to China. Oil, however, is Alaska's biggest cash cow, and 95% of that goes to the lower-48. If we had our act together we would also be exporting our vast supply of natural gas, but alas it is not to be.

Since you are either confused or uneducated, I will inform you that carbon dioxide is not "pollution." CO2 is actually a beneficial, life-giving gas. What you are thinking of is CO, or carbon monoxide, which is a gas that is deadly to oxygen-breathing life and is considered "pollution." CO has absolutely nothing to do with climate change, and even the effects of CO2 on the climate is hotly debated.

Your so-called "green energy" also contributes even more CO2 to the atmosphere than fossil-fueled vehicles. Where do you think all that power you use to power your electric vehicle comes from?

The above is mostly all correct, but for a couple of things: CO2 is not so beneficial once the concentration gets too high. Sure, it's necessary for life on Earth to even exist, but it does change the climate. If there were no CO2 at all, the Earth would be frozen and lifeless. Too much, and the average temperature begins to rise to what it was during the carboniferous era, when there were no humans around to have experienced it. That was a great time for dinosaurs, but we humans will have a difficult time adjusting to it.

Secondly, that excess CO2 is the cause of global warming is only "hotly contested" amongst some pundits who don't understand the science. Every scientific organization on Earth is saying the same thing: Increases in concentration of carbon dioxide are causing a warmer planet on average and increased extremes of weather.

 

[Grand Mal]

Coal is a vital part of Alaska's economy. We sell most of it to China. Oil, however, is Alaska's biggest cash cow, and 95% of that goes to the lower-48. If we had our act together we would also be exporting our vast supply of natural gas, but alas it is not to be.

Since you are either confused or uneducated, I will inform you that carbon dioxide is not "pollution." CO2 is actually a beneficial, life-giving gas. What you are thinking of is CO, or carbon monoxide, which is a gas that is deadly to oxygen-breathing life and is considered "pollution." CO has absolutely nothing to do with climate change, and even the effects of CO2 on the climate is hotly debated.

Your so-called "green energy" also contributes even more CO2 to the atmosphere than fossil-fueled vehicles. Where do you think all that power you use to power your electric vehicle comes from?

I don't know about Alaska but here in British Columbia It's hydro which makes it basically solar. The sun picks the water up off the ocean and it falls on the mountains. As it runs back down to the ocean we make it turn turbines, generating electricity.

 

[Lisa]

Consider the source. The ADN is a San Francisco based paper that doesn't have the first clue about Alaska.

First, Usibelli coal mine is not located in Sutton, but rather 115 miles south of Fairbanks, right next door to Denali National Park, and has been in operation since 1943 supplying six coal power plants in Alaska, plus shipping coal to South Korea, China, Chile, and other Pacific Rim nations.

Second, the coal mine located in Sutton, Alaska, is called the Eska coal mine and has been in operation since 1968.

The only problem either of those coal companies had with permitting was under the anti-American communist Obama who wanted to illegally abolish all coal everywhere.

There use to be as many as 17 coal mines in the Matanuska-Susitna Valley. Alaska will continue to use coal power plants and furnish households with coal for heating because it is a cheap and abundant resource, and in some cases for a given area the only resource.

If your only choice was to use coal to stay warm through an Alaskan Winter no doubt you would choose to freeze to death.

States do not have the right, or the authority, to regulate commerce between States. Only Congress has that authority.

Apparently in WY's case they do have a customer in NY that wants their coal, and NY is trying to tell WY that they cannot sell their product in their State, and they cannot do that constitutionally. Not without approval from Congress.

The Alaska Daily news is printed in Anchorage. When did that become a suburb of SanFrancisco?

The Anchorage Daily News is a daily newspaper published by the Binkley Co., and based in Anchorage, Alaska. It is the most widely read newspaper and news website in the state of Alaska. The newspaper is headquartered in Anchorage, with bureaus in Wasilla, Alaska and Juneau, Alaska.

 

[Glitch]

You defending using such a dirty energy and calling me uneducated. Typical projecting right winger. You are proving you are the one who is uneducated with your idiotic comments about CO2,.

And you just proving the selfishness of them continuing to lie about climate change to push their shitty, polluting, dying energy source.

Yes, the fact that you don't know the difference between CO2 and CO and consider CO2 to be a "pollutant" demonstrates beyond any doubt that you are uneducated.

 

[Glitch]

I don't know about Alaska but here in British Columbia It's hydro which makes it basically solar. The sun picks the water up off the ocean and it falls on the mountains. As it runs back down to the ocean we make it turn turbines, generating electricity.

We also use hydroelectric power (or at least Anchorage does). They placed a large drain in the bottom of lake Ekultna, just outside of Anchorage, and as the lake drains it powers the generators. This way it can continue to function even when the lake is frozen over during the Winter. The Spring melt refills the lake. It does work better than the wind farm they set up on a nearby island which is only operational a few months during the year, but neither provide enough power. They have two natural gas power plants doing the bulk of work, but natural gas is rapidly running out in the Mat-Su Valley.

 

[KingLeo]

Maybe owners of horses and buggies should sue the major auto makers.

It seems the Wyoming governor should refuse the campaign donations from the coal companies and make his wind swept state a leader in wind generated energy. Coal generated energy is a dying technology.

 

[Glitch]

The Alaska Daily news is printed in Anchorage. When did that become a suburb of SanFrancisco?

When the San Francisco company bought it. It may be printed and dististributed in Anchorage, but all the stories are written in California. Nobody in Alaska would use the ADN to wrap their fish in, much less buy it.

 

[Glitch]

Coal generated energy is a dying technology.

Except where it is not.

 

[bomberfox]

A reminder that “state’s rights” does not mean what people say it means.

People forgot the states needed the federal government to step in to protect constitutional rights. States rights meant the states didnt have to respect constitutional rights.

 

[danielpalos]

Wyoming stands up for coal with threat to sue states that refuse to buy it

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’

www.theguardian.com

Republican governor says measure sends message that Wyoming is ‘prepared to bring litigation to protect her interests’


Wyoming is faced by a transition to renewable energy that’s gathering pace across America, but it has now come up with a novel and controversial plan to protect its mining industry – sue other states that refuse to take its coal.
A new state law has created a $1.2m fund to be used by Wyoming’s governor to take legal action against other states that opt to power themselves with clean energy such as solar and wind, in order to meet targets to tackle the climate crisis, rather than burn Wyoming’s coal.
==========================================================================
Interesting move. Can someone or some corporation be forced to buy something that they want to stop buying? Can a state sue them if they refuse?

No. Only true Socialists operate like that on a nation-State basis.

 

[KingLeo]

Except where it is not.

Short term.
Over 100 coal burning power plants (of the roughly 250 total in the US) have been converted to natural gas.
And more scheduled.
Coal is a dying industry, time for Wyoming to realize it.

 

[notquiteright]

When the San Francisco company bought it. It may be printed and dististributed in Anchorage, but all the stories are written in California. Nobody in Alaska would use the ADN to wrap their fish in, much less buy it.

Yeah damn Californians are everywhere...

57,000 plus daily and 71,000plus Sunday. Guess the US mail is making bank by all those copies being mailed to California...

 

[Glitch]

The above is mostly all correct, but for a couple of things: CO2 is not so beneficial once the concentration gets too high. Sure, it's necessary for life on Earth to even exist, but it does change the climate. If there were no CO2 at all, the Earth would be frozen and lifeless. Too much, and the average temperature begins to rise to what it was during the carboniferous era, when there were no humans around to have experienced it. That was a great time for dinosaurs, but we humans will have a difficult time adjusting to it.

Secondly, that excess CO2 is the cause of global warming is only "hotly contested" amongst some pundits who don't understand the science. Every scientific organization on Earth is saying the same thing: Increases in concentration of carbon dioxide are causing a warmer planet on average and increased extremes of weather.

Not exactly correct either. Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. As to its effect on the climate, that is still hotly debated, but the overall consensus is that increases in CO2 lag temperature increases by ~800 years. So the CO2 increases we are seeing today during the 20th century are the result of temperature increases that occurred during the 12th century.

Furthermore, during the end of the Permian at the time of the extinction events, when the mean surface temperature exceeded 35°C, the atmospheric CO2 levels were between 250 and 350 ppmV, which is below current levels. The Carboniferous period ended 47 million years before the first dinosaur appeared. The Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous periods are when the dinosaurs existed.

Also, humans do not have a difficult time adjusting to higher levels of CO2. A full business conference room will regularly exceed 1,000 ppmV of CO2. According to OSHA, humans don't start having a problem with CO2 until it reaches 30,000 ppmV, or 3% of the total atmosphere.

CARBON DIOXIDE | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

Those who think CO2 is the sole greenhouse gas responsible for global warming are complete idiots. Since they are ignoring the chief greenhouse gas - water vapor. H2O is responsible for as much as 95% of all the radiative forcing, while CO2 is responsible for less than 3%, and the human contribution of CO2 is only 1.18% of that < 3%. Which makes the human contribution insignificant, even if you could tie CO2 into changing the climate, which you can't since it is the climate that changes the CO2 content in the atmosphere and not the other way around.

That is the difference between an education and leftist indoctrination.

 

[Glitch]

Short term.
Over 100 coal burning power plants (of the roughly 250 total in the US) have been converted to natural gas.
And more scheduled.
Coal is a dying industry, time for Wyoming to realize it.

There are places were there is no natural gas, and only coal or wood for heat and electricity. Coal will not die as long as their is a need, and there will always been a need some place.

 

[Lisa]

When the San Francisco company bought it. It may be printed and dististributed in Anchorage, but all the stories are written in California. Nobody in Alaska would use the ADN to wrap their fish in, much less buy it.

They are the owners.

My newspaper was owned by McClatchey media but it was still written and printed in Akron.

You are wrong again. Your opinions aren't facts. Your bluster only proves that they are opinions and not objective facts, no matter how angry you get when you are questioned.

The newspaper is headquartered in Anchorage, with bureaus in Wasilla, Alaska and Juneau, Alaska.

You don't like it because its not a conservative mouthpiece,

Alaska Dispatch News

LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording

mediabiasfactcheck.com

 

[JacksinPA]

There are places were there is no natural gas, and only coal or wood for heat and electricity. Coal will not die as long as their is a need, and there will always been a need some place.

But less & less with time. Huge operations like in WY can't economically continue to operate if no one buys their coal. That's the point of having those huge dump trucks: scale. Without scale, their economics go to hell.

 

[Lisa]

But less & less with time. Huge operations like in WY can't economically continue to operate if no one buys their coal. That's the point of having those huge dump trucks: scale. Without scale, their economics go to hell.

Peabody Bear Run mine in SW Indiana that opened in 2010 is already scaling back and is expected to close before the current mine permits run out. Nobody wants coal any longer.

Miners to be Laid Off as Peabody Scales Back Production - Inside INdiana Business

A Sullivan county mine is laying off 35 workers as the company deals with decreasing demand for coal, according to our partners at WTHI-TV. St. Louis-based Peabody Energy Corp. (NYSE: BTU) has anno...

www.insideindianabusiness.com

 

[Glitch]

They are the owners.

My newspaper was owned by McClatchey media but it was still written and printed in Akron.

You are wrong again. Your opinions aren't facts. Your bluster only proves that they are opinions and not objective facts, no matter how angry you get when you are questioned.

I'm not the one who couldn't identify the correct coal companies and their locations. That would be the ADN, because none of their propagandists live within 3,000 miles of the State they are writing about.

You don't like it because its not a conservative mouthpiece,

Alaska Dispatch News

LEFT-CENTER BIAS These media sources have a slight to moderate liberal bias. They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording

mediabiasfactcheck.com

The ADN is just another fine example of leftist propaganda. The true Enemy of the People, like all leftist filth.

 

[Glitch]

But less & less with time. Huge operations like in WY can't economically continue to operate if no one buys their coal. That's the point of having those huge dump trucks: scale. Without scale, their economics go to hell.

Perhaps in the US. As Asia continues to boom economically, so does their demand for more power. Alaska has 5.1 trillion tons of coal resources, about five times that of China. Most of the coal Alaska exports goes to South Korea currently, but we can certainly increase our production and ship even more coal to other countries as needed.

Alaska currently gets 14.1% of its power from coal, and unless they start shipping natural gas into the Mat-Su Valley very soon, they are going to have no alternative but to build yet another coal power plant in the near future.

 

[Peter]

Europe will soon be completely coal free.
It really isn't a business with any growth potential.

 

[Cardinal]

Perhaps in the US. As Asia continues to boom economically, so does their demand for more power. Alaska has 5.1 trillion tons of coal resources, about five times that of China. Most of the coal Alaska exports goes to South Korea currently, but we can certainly increase our production and ship even more coal to other countries as needed.

Alaska currently gets 14.1% of its power from coal, and unless they start shipping natural gas into the Mat-Su Valley very soon, they are going to have no alternative but to build yet another coal power plant in the near future.

Speaking of China…

China to stop building coal plants in developing nations

President Xi Jinping announces a necessary step to controlling global emissions.

arstechnica.com

Coal is a dying industry.

 

[JacksinPA]

Yes, the fact that you don't know the difference between CO2 and CO and consider CO2 to be a "pollutant" demonstrates beyond any doubt that you are uneducated.

CO2 above a the level needed to maintain plant life can be toxic because it contributes to the Greenhouse Effect. You can't live on CO2 also.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Not exactly correct either. Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas. As to its effect on the climate, that is still hotly debated, but the overall consensus is that increases in CO2 lag temperature increases by ~800 years. So the CO2 increases we are seeing today during the 20th century are the result of temperature increases that occurred during the 12th century.

Furthermore, during the end of the Permian at the time of the extinction events, when the mean surface temperature exceeded 35°C, the atmospheric CO2 levels were between 250 and 350 ppmV, which is below current levels. The Carboniferous period ended 47 million years before the first dinosaur appeared. The Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous periods are when the dinosaurs existed.

Also, humans do not have a difficult time adjusting to higher levels of CO2. A full business conference room will regularly exceed 1,000 ppmV of CO2. According to OSHA, humans don't start having a problem with CO2 until it reaches 30,000 ppmV, or 3% of the total atmosphere.

CARBON DIOXIDE | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

Those who think CO2 is the sole greenhouse gas responsible for global warming are complete idiots. Since they are ignoring the chief greenhouse gas - water vapor. H2O is responsible for as much as 95% of all the radiative forcing, while CO2 is responsible for less than 3%, and the human contribution of CO2 is only 1.18% of that < 3%. Which makes the human contribution insignificant, even if you could tie CO2 into changing the climate, which you can't since it is the climate that changes the CO2 content in the atmosphere and not the other way around.

That is the difference between an education and leftist indoctrination.

It is not being hotly debated that global climate change, fueled by global warming, is real and a current threat to the well being of humankind. The only "debate" on the subject is between politicians and pundits who know nothing. The science is proven beyond a reasonable doubt, and agreed on by every scientific organization world wide.

Yes, there are other greenhouse gasses, and yes, water vapor is one of them. Moreover, water vapor is both a cause and an effect of global warming: As the air gets warmer, there is more water vapor, and as there is more water vapor, the air gets warmer. It's a catch 22. What that does is magnifies the effect of CO2 on the climate. More CO2, more warming, more warming, more water vapor, more water vapor, more warming. I believe it's referred to as the "tipping point" when we can no longer mitigate global warming by limiting the amount of carbon dioxide emitted .

Oh, and sure, we humans can live with more CO2 in the atmosphere. It really doesn't hurt us until the concentration gets a lot higher than it is now. What we can't live with very well is the effects of global warming, i.e., more extremes of weather. Anyone who doesn't recognize that we're having more extremes of weather is simply asleep.



It looks like I got my geologic periods mixed up. I'll give you that.