WTF Is Up With Atheists Lately?

[atrasicarius]

So the guy's an idiot. Does that mean we have to go out of our way to point and laugh loudly at him in public or go tell him to his face that he's a moron? No. Just live and let live. He's not hurting anyone by thinking he's being perfectly rational. My day wouldn't get any better by walking up to him and saying "Dood, you're delusional in the extreme."

Yeah, and that's what I said a couple of posts ago. But he shouldn't expect any respect from us, and he shouldn't be surprised if we're laughing at him among ourselves. And, of course, if he comes onto a site that's specifically for arguing about ****, he shouldn't expect a free pass for his beliefs.

 

[Cephus]

Once again, same question: why would atheists adopt the slimeball behavior they detest in religious people?

And WTF difference does it make how many atheists are around? Is there a critical mass to be reached, where all religious BS suddenly stops?

There's nothing slimeball about standing up for factual reality. There's nothing slimeball about being frustrated and angry over the actions of theists either. When the theists grow up and stop trying to force their beliefs on others, you can be sure that the number of people upset about their actions will be reduced as well.

 

[Arcana XV]

It would be a perfectly rational explanation for the level of venom I've seen out of some people.

I'm sure there are plenty of atheists who are genuinely atheist, I'm talking about the especially vitriolic ones.

Oh, I get it. That whole "he doth protest to much, methinks" and whatnot. LOL I guess it makes sense.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

There's nothing slimeball about standing up for factual reality. There's nothing slimeball about being frustrated and angry over the actions of theists either. When the theists grow up and stop trying to force their beliefs on others, you can be sure that the number of people upset about their actions will be reduced as well.

Nothing's wrong with any of that -- and none of that is what Pinkie was asking about.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Oh, I get it. That whole "he doth protest to much, methinks" and whatnot. LOL I guess it makes sense.

Yep. Sort of like those Family Value Republicans who end up getting caught in an airport restroom or something similar.

 

[Cephus]

Nothing's wrong with any of that -- and none of that is what Pinkie was asking about.

It has everything to do with what Pinkie was asking about. Atheists have every right to be pissed considering all the abuse they've been put through and continue to be put through. Yet instead of criticizing what theists do to atheists, Pinkie is only complaining about the wholly justified actions of a very small number of atheists. Atheists deserve equality and they deserve not to be discriminated against. When do you think that's going to happen?

 

[Arcana XV]

Yeah, and that's what I said a couple of posts ago. But he shouldn't expect any respect from us, and he shouldn't be surprised if we're laughing at him among ourselves. And, of course, if he comes onto a site that's specifically for arguing about ****, he shouldn't expect a free pass for his beliefs.

Point. I'm civil to believers and all, but I certainly don't feel like I owe them respect for their beliefs.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

It has everything to do with what Pinkie was asking about. Atheists have every right to be pissed considering all the abuse they've been put through and continue to be put through. Yet instead of criticizing what theists do to atheists, Pinkie is only complaining about the wholly justified actions of a very small number of atheists. Atheists deserve equality and they deserve not to be discriminated against. When do you think that's going to happen?

Be pissed. Demand equality. Decry discrimination. Don't act like a child.

As for Pinkie's thread, it had a subject. It has stuck to that subject. She has not in any way stated approval for what some theists do to atheists.

 

[atrasicarius]

Point. I'm civil to believers and all, but I certainly don't feel like I owe them respect for their beliefs.

If I ever saw an atheist ranting about **** on a street corner, I would go up and smack him for making the rest of us look bad. Never seen that, though.

 

[Pinkie]

It would be a perfectly rational explanation for the level of venom I've seen out of some people.

I'm sure there are plenty of atheists who are genuinely atheist, I'm talking about the especially vitriolic ones.

I think for most people I have interacted with, it's one of two things. Either they suffered badly growing up in a religious atmosphere or they have suffered badly as an adult for not belonging to a religion. (Specifically, christianity. The American religious bigot AKA obnoxious fundie rarely gives anyone points for being a Jew, Muslim, etc.)

I certainly suffered as a child from my religious atmosphere. I MAY have suffered as an adult for not belonging to a church, but if so, I'm not aware of it.

Either way, my belief/spirituality/whatever you may call it is the result of decades of reading, pondering, experiencing life, etc. This is also true of SOME religious people (but I've never known one who behaved like a bigot). I don't have any difficulty managing mutual respect.....I consider it a hallmark of healthy, mature adulthood.

So why would an atheist ever have the bigot issue/a bigotry problem?

THAT'S what I can't grasp.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

I think for most people I have interacted with, it's one of two things. Either they suffered badly growing up in a religious atmosphere or they have suffered badly as an adult for not belonging to a religion. (Specifically, christianity. The American religious bigot AKA obnoxious fundie rarely gives anyone points for being a Jew, Muslim, etc.)

Wouldn't surprise me in the least.

So why would an atheist ever have the bigot issue/a bigotry problem?

THAT'S what I can't grasp.

Because if you treat someone like crap for long enough, either they decide to fill the roll that you've established for them (feeling that they have no other choice) or they're going to blindly return the favor (feeling that it's appropriate to fight fire with fire, never mind that you end up burning down the rest of the forest).

 

[Arcana XV]

If I ever saw an atheist ranting about **** on a street corner, I would go up and smack him for making the rest of us look bad. Never seen that, though.

Heh. The internet is our street corner. Seems that's where most of our loons are at.

 

[Pinkie]

There's nothing slimeball about standing up for factual reality. There's nothing slimeball about being frustrated and angry over the actions of theists either. When the theists grow up and stop trying to force their beliefs on others, you can be sure that the number of people upset about their actions will be reduced as well.

I completely agree with you about the bad behavior of some religious people. I'M NOT ONE SUCH. So why would I be getting blowback?

Because I believe there is a Divine, I have to take all the **** Pat Robertson so richly deserves?

That just doesn't make sense to me, Cephus.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

I completely agree with you about the bad behavior of some religious people. I'M NOT ONE SUCH. So why would I be getting blowback?

Because I believe there is a Divine, I have to take all the **** Pat Robertson so richly deserves?

That just doesn't make sense to me, Cephus.

Sam Harris' book argued this exact point. Religious moderates offer "shelter from criticism" to extremists. By claiming you share the same beliefs (just interpreted differently) both are allowed to practice their beliefs.

 

[Cephus]

I completely agree with you about the bad behavior of some religious people. I'M NOT ONE SUCH. So why would I be getting blowback?

How are you getting any blowback? Has anyone criticized you in this thread? I haven't seen it if so.

Because I believe there is a Divine, I have to take all the **** Pat Robertson so richly deserves?

That just doesn't make sense to me, Cephus.

No and it probably isn't right, but the fact remains that there is no evidence to support belief in the divine. I don't care if you believe it, that doesn't obligate me to respect the beliefs, nor to make you feel good about them. As far as I'm concerned, people who are more concerned about their emotional comfort than about factual reality are doing something wrong. Follow reality where it leads, no matter how it might make you feel, don't go where you feel best, then try to justify holding that belief.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

Here's something else scary: forty percent of Americans think Armageddon will happen during their lifetime.

Newsweek: Forty Percent of Americans Believe the World Will End as... -- re> NEW YORK, Oct. 24 /PRNewswire/ --

Talk about being conceited.

 

[TacticalEvilDan]

Sam Harris' book argued this exact point. Religious moderates offer "shelter from criticism" to extremists. By claiming you share the same beliefs (just interpreted differently) both are allowed to practice their beliefs.

So what label are the reasonable atheists planning to claim, so as to differentiate themselves from the jerks?

 

[Cephus]

Here's something else scary: forty percent of Americans think Armageddon will happen during their lifetime.

Newsweek: Forty Percent of Americans Believe the World Will End as... -- re> NEW YORK, Oct. 24 /PRNewswire/ --

Talk about being conceited.

They've been saying that for the past 2000 years or so. Heck, look at some of the crazy religious groups who keep preaching the end of the world and are always wrong, yet their followers still cling to their absurd ideas. Reality and religious belief seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

[atrasicarius]

Heh. The internet is our street corner. Seems that's where most of our loons are at.

Well, the difference between the internet and an actual street corner is you just don't click the link or watch the video.

 

[Pinkie]

Sam Harris' book argued this exact point. Religious moderates offer "shelter from criticism" to extremists. By claiming you share the same beliefs (just interpreted differently) both are allowed to practice their beliefs.

I DO NOT share the beliefs of any religious people.

My spiritual beliefs are: there is a Divine.

I openly acknowledge I CHOOSE to believe this to fill an emotional need I have and others may not. I make no attempt whatsoever to "prove" God exists.

I do not believe in an afterlife, sin, the devil, or any other tenent of any religion, certainly NOT christianity.

I've run across other Deists in my time, but to my knowledge, there are no conventions for us, no youtube videos by us, no facebook pages promoting our (single) belief.

In the eyes of virtually all religious people -- and for sure, every fundie -- I'm indistinguishable from any atheist. So, lucky me, I get **** from all sides.

 

[zgoldsmith23]

So what label are the reasonable atheists planning to claim, so as to differentiate themselves from the jerks?

Well we could call them ... "jerks."

They've been saying that for the past 2000 years or so. Heck, look at some of the crazy religious groups who keep preaching the end of the world and are always wrong, yet their followers still cling to their absurd ideas. Reality and religious belief seem to be at opposite ends of the spectrum.

I'm not sure reality and religious belief are even on the same plane.

 

[atrasicarius]

So what label are the reasonable atheists planning to claim, so as to differentiate themselves from the jerks?

There are atheists who are also assholes. There are religious people who are also assholes. Then there are religious extremists. It's really not the same thing.

 

[Arcana XV]

Well, the difference between the internet and an actual street corner is you just don't click the link or watch the video.

No difference. You can keep walking and ignore the kook on the street corner too.

 

[Pinkie]

See this image?

IMO, that woman is NOT religious. She's a power hungry sociopath who'd say or do anything for power and fame. This is my opinion of the Religious Right in general, and it was when they called themselves the Moral Majority, the Silent Majority, etc.

I view these people as the ****stain on American politics, and IMO, dealing with them as a form of religious type of ANY sort is self-defeating. What we who find them odious SHOULD be doing is pointing out that there is absolutely no resemblance between their avowed POVs and any known religion, ESPECIALLY christianity.

The power grab being made now by the Religious Right terrifies me, and I'd like some support in beating them back -- especially from atheists. So yes, it's irritating to me to instead be taken to the woodshed by an atheist who wants to rant at me about my belief in God.

 

[Cephus]

I openly acknowledge I CHOOSE to believe this to fill an emotional need I have and others may not. I make no attempt whatsoever to "prove" God exists.

As such, there is nothing wrong with criticizing you for holding beliefs for which you have no rational reason whatsoever to think are actually true. You're admitting that you have no credible, objective reason to believe what you believe, you're doing it because it makes you feel good. We're just pointing out that you are acting irrationally. Since people can simply invent any concept to fill emotional holes, from gods to aliens to Bigfoot to Santa Claus, that really doesn't do any good when we really ought to care if what we permit into our heads is actually real.