Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you live?

[year2late]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

I don't think he said the word "slamming". He did say it was consistent with hitting concrete. And then the state tried to say it was a tree branch. *snickers*

I don't buy tree branch, but certainly never ever ever slamming. By the way, were all the "impacts" to the back of the head?


Slamming implies to all reasonable people a true act of hitting with great force.

By the way, were the "impacts" all to the back of the head?

I think they were strikes to the face and back of the head combined.

What does make a difference may be on one level it was punches...most people do not pull out their guns and shoot people who punch them. SO it is important to me that there was REALLY slamming. Slamming the head on concrete (remember, concrete will not give when force is applied, but the head will)can instantly cause a life or death injury. How did George manage through multiple slams against concrete with a few very small lacerations and a few bumps. Makes absolutely no sense unless there was no slam and just a impact like in a fall or such. No sense. The head just is not built to take in such strong impacts to concrete - let alone multiple ones.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Mashed potatoes are my absolute most favorite food!

The whole Martin and Zimmerman fracas is pretty pointless to debate since it is almost entirely speculation on both sides.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Mashed potatoes are my absolute most favorite food!

The whole Martin and Zimmerman fracas is pretty pointless to debate since it is almost entirely speculation on both sides.

i agree thats why i stated that it doesnt matter whether you think he is innocent or guilty, i didnt want that debate though it turned into that

I simply wanted to know if people would want/trust him on their own neighborhood watch. But its seems to me that many just voted on whether they think he is innocent or guilty they didnt really give an honest objective vote. Thats my opinion anyway.

I certainly think he is innocent of Murder 2 but i most certainly wouldnt want him anywhere around my neighborhood let alone on neighborhood watch with a loaded gun.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

i agree thats why i stated that it doesnt matter whether you think he is innocent or guilty, i didnt want that debate though it turned into that

I simply wanted to know if people would want/trust him on their own neighborhood watch. But its seems to me that many just voted on whether they think he is innocent or guilty they didnt really give an honest objective vote. Thats my opinion anyway.

I certainly think he is innocent of Murder 2 but i most certainly wouldnt want him anywhere around my neighborhood let alone on neighborhood watch with a loaded gun.

I seriously doubt at this point that Zimmerman wants to ever look at another gun again let alone ever hold one.

I think the entire concept of an armed neighborhood watch is inherently flawed. What exactly is good about a bunch of people with little to no training in armed urban patrol just walking around ready to fire off shots at a moment's notice and paying little heed to how their bullets could go errant and hit a passerby or go through a neighbor's window?

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

1.)I seriously doubt at this point that Zimmerman wants to ever look at another gun again let alone ever hold one.

2.) I think the entire concept of an armed neighborhood watch is inherently flawed.
3.) What exactly is good about a bunch of people with little to no training in armed urban patrol just walking around ready to fire off shots at a moment's notice and paying little heed to how their bullets could go errant and hit a passerby or go through a neighbor's window?

1.) hmmm very possible but i doubt it
2.) simply depends on who the people are and most that im aware of are only about WATCH
3.) see 2
3.) see 2

 

[CRUE CAB]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Patrolling neighborhoods is less effective than other methods...........

Can you expand on that? I disagree.

 

[j-mac]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

I don't buy tree branch, but certainly never ever ever slamming. By the way, were all the "impacts" to the back of the head?


Slamming implies to all reasonable people a true act of hitting with great force.

By the way, were the "impacts" all to the back of the head?

I think they were strikes to the face and back of the head combined.

What does make a difference may be on one level it was punches...most people do not pull out their guns and shoot people who punch them. SO it is important to me that there was REALLY slamming. Slamming the head on concrete (remember, concrete will not give when force is applied, but the head will)can instantly cause a life or death injury. How did George manage through multiple slams against concrete with a few very small lacerations and a few bumps. Makes absolutely no sense unless there was no slam and just a impact like in a fall or such. No sense. The head just is not built to take in such strong impacts to concrete - let alone multiple ones.

Well, by all means then could you contact the NFL doctor, and inform them that based on your medical degree that you don't think that trauma to the head can occur without significant outward signs of injury? I am sure they will drop the helmet to helmet contact rule immediately. :roll:

 

[sbrettt]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Mashed potatoes are my absolute most favorite food!

The whole Martin and Zimmerman fracas is pretty pointless to debate since it is almost entirely speculation on both sides.

Yet people are so self righteous with their opinions.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Yet people are so self righteous with their opinions.

absolutely
mashed potatoes are at best OK unless served with milk gravy

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

absolutely
mashed potatoes are at best OK unless served with milk gravy

Now, that's just wild speculation. Add some garlic, and you have a real treat. Milk gravy just adds to it a bit.

 

[year2late]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Well, by all means then could you contact the NFL doctor, and inform them that based on your medical degree that you don't think that trauma to the head can occur without significant outward signs of injury? I am sure they will drop the helmet to helmet contact rule immediately. :roll:

In the NFL, how often are they hitting the concrete repeatedly? Doesn't take an MD to understand that issue.

By the way, is the helmet padded to absorb shock?

Head to concrete. Concrete doesn't give. Head does.

The helmet in and of itself relieves some of the impact. Unless you are saying Georges head was slammed against the pavement with a helmet on, you are describing two entirely different issues. The helmet makes it much more possible that someone can have actual brain injury without outward signs of injury.

 

[j-mac]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

In the NFL, how often are they hitting the concrete repeatedly? Doesn't take an MD to understand that issue.

By the way, is the helmet padded to absorb shock?

Head to concrete. Concrete doesn't give. Head does.

The helmet in and of itself relieves some of the impact. Unless you are saying Georges head was slammed against the pavement with a helmet on, you are describing two entirely different issues. The helmet makes it much more possible that someone can have actual brain injury without outward signs of injury.

Well then, I once again suggest you get on the phone with the commissioner of the NFL, and tell him based on your vast experience as not only a medical doctor, but also now a force impact expert, that they can do away with the rule, and allow helmet to helmet contact....When you say this:

"By the way, is the helmet padded to absorb shock?

Head to concrete. Concrete doesn't give. Head does."

You prove that you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about...You just made the case for Z that regardless of the appearance of severity of injury, trauma to the head can occur.

 

[year2late]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Well then, I once again suggest you get on the phone with the commissioner of the NFL, and tell him based on your vast experience as not only a medical doctor, but also now a force impact expert, that they can do away with the rule, and allow helmet to helmet contact....When you say this:

"By the way, is the helmet padded to absorb shock?

Head to concrete. Concrete doesn't give. Head does."

You prove that you have absolutely NO IDEA what you are talking about...You just made the case for Z that regardless of the appearance of severity of injury, trauma to the head can occur.

So, are you saying you think the injuries that would happen when a helmeted NFL player in play would closely approximate those injuries tat would occur when a bald headed not helmeted individual has his head slammed repeatedly against concrete?

Yes or no?

 

[j-mac]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

So, are you saying you think the injuries that would happen when a helmeted NFL player in play would closely approximate those injuries tat would occur when a bald headed not helmeted individual has his head slammed repeatedly against concrete?

Yes or no?

I think that your assertion that you can tell as a lay person, and from photo's that the injuries to the back of Z's head were insignificant...I then asked you about the NFL, and you seemed to say that the helmets were padded so injury could happen. Which is absurd....You say that injuries like concussions can happen when force is applies by two helmeted heads meeting in play, but can't happen when a head comes in contact with cement in a fight?

Your contention is that you can tell, and I say you are full of __________ fill in the blank...

 

[year2late]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

I think that your assertion that you can tell as a lay person, and from photo's that the injuries to the back of Z's head were insignificant...I then asked you about the NFL, and you seemed to say that the helmets were padded so injury could happen. Which is absurd....You say that injuries like concussions can happen when force is applies by two helmeted heads meeting in play, but can't happen when a head comes in contact with cement in a fight?

Your contention is that you can tell, and I say you are full of __________ fill in the blank...

common sense.

Cement does not give.

Head does.

Slamming should cause more significant visable injuries. Unless you are the man of steel.

 

[j-mac]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

common sense.

Cement does not give.

Head does.

Slamming should cause more significant visable injuries. Unless you are the man of steel.

Oh, so now you are back to the force expert hat.....Ok, tell me, would an injury be more significant, or less significant with resistance, as opposed to no resistance? Would the injuries be more, or less if the head meeting concrete was a result of a punch, or a forcible and directed grabbing of the head and pushing it into the sidewalk?

There are variables that determine how hard the head hit, angles, force involved, and other blows like punches taken to the head that are in play, and you think you are versed enough to say, 'ah, well the injuries don't look bad enough, so I think Z is lying'.....That's crap dude....

 

[sharon]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

I think that your assertion that you can tell as a lay person, and from photo's that the injuries to the back of Z's head were insignificant...I then asked you about the NFL, and you seemed to say that the helmets were padded so injury could happen. Which is absurd....You say that injuries like concussions can happen when force is applies by two helmeted heads meeting in play, but can't happen when a head comes in contact with cement in a fight?

Your contention is that you can tell, and I say you are full of __________ fill in the blank...

The EMTs, George's PA and the ME said George's injuries were minor.

 

[j-mac]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

The EMTs, George's PA and the ME said George's injuries were minor.

Are any of them neurologists? Is there a CAT scan we can look at? Do concussions always manifest themselves outwardly immediately? With all that aside, whether the injuries turned out to be minor, or not is irrelevant. All that matters is the standard of the law and that is:

"776.013 Use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—
(1) A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another...

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

This is a standard that does not require that subsequent examination reveal that harm to have occurred. THAT is all that matters.

 

[year2late]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Oh, so now you are back to the force expert hat.....Ok, tell me, would an injury be more significant, or less significant with resistance, as opposed to no resistance? Would the injuries be more, or less if the head meeting concrete was a result of a punch, or a forcible and directed grabbing of the head and pushing it into the sidewalk?

There are variables that determine how hard the head hit, angles, force involved, and other blows like punches taken to the head that are in play, and you think you are versed enough to say, 'ah, well the injuries don't look bad enough, so I think Z is lying'.....That's crap dude....

Pushed into the sidewalk isn't what ZImmerman said. He said SLAMMED into. Pushed into could imply that the head was already on the sidewalk, just pushed into it without the absolute implied force of George's repeated claim of having his head SLAMMED into the concrete. For what it is worth, "pushed into" the sidewalk sounds more plausible and more in line with the two superficial very small lacerations and the few bumps on the back of his head.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Pushed into the sidewalk isn't what ZImmerman said. He said SLAMMED into. Pushed into could imply that the head was already on the sidewalk, just pushed into it without the absolute implied force of George's repeated claim of having his head SLAMMED into the concrete. For what it is worth, "pushed into" the sidewalk sounds more plausible and more in line with the two superficial very small lacerations and the few bumps on the back of his head.

yes, such a major semantic distinction [/sarcasm]

slammed versus pushed

now read your own post and come back and explain its significance to a finding of guilt or innocence

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

We can stop speculating pretty soon. Zimmerman is not going to testify, and the trial is about over.

Next issue: Do we agree with the jury? Answer: They don't care.

 

[j-mac]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Pushed into the sidewalk isn't what ZImmerman said. He said SLAMMED into. Pushed into could imply that the head was already on the sidewalk, just pushed into it without the absolute implied force of George's repeated claim of having his head SLAMMED into the concrete. For what it is worth, "pushed into" the sidewalk sounds more plausible and more in line with the two superficial very small lacerations and the few bumps on the back of his head.

Sorry, but you are arguing a distinction without a difference, because the only thing that matters is the statute...So, if Z felt his life was in danger, or in fear of great bodily harm, then self defense is warranted. So, instead of playing word games and trying to parse every 'if', 'and', or 'is', you need to focus on the body of the story. And in that nothing has changed, and the prosecution's witnesses to extent even corroborated Z's account of what happened. So I'd say that the State is in big trouble in this case.

 

[year2late]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Sorry, but you are arguing a distinction without a difference, because the only thing that matters is the statute...So, if Z felt his life was in danger, or in fear of great bodily harm, then self defense is warranted. So, instead of playing word games and trying to parse every 'if', 'and', or 'is', you need to focus on the body of the story. And in that nothing has changed, and the prosecution's witnesses to extent even corroborated Z's account of what happened. So I'd say that the State is in big trouble in this case.

You say that but then you seem to be arguing that his injuries were caused by slamming head into concrete using some NFL analogy.

But yes there is a difference. Having your head slammed into concrete - it is reasonable to think Zimmerman felt a life or death . But having your head that was already on or near the ground pushed, is not reasonable to think you were in a life or death situation. Unless you are saying any fight could be life or death then BANG.


But it doesn't matter how we interpret things. It matters how 6 jurors do. I am just not seeing murder 2, but I do think there should be some criminal responsibility. If I had seen a grown man following a teen boy while driving in a car, then get out and follow him on foot.....my first thought would be some perve that was trying to do very bad things. If you saw Zim follow Trayvon on car then on foot...would you assume he was "being helpful"?

 

[j-mac]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

You say that but then you seem to be arguing that his injuries were caused by slamming head into concrete using some NFL analogy.

Because looking at photos of injuries to the head on the news, and saying that they don't look serious enough to you, is ridiculous. It is irrelevant.

But yes there is a difference. Having your head slammed into concrete - it is reasonable to think Zimmerman felt a life or death . But having your head that was already on or near the ground pushed, is not reasonable to think you were in a life or death situation. Unless you are saying any fight could be life or death then BANG.

But what you don't seem to get, is that it doesn't matter if YOU think it was reasonable, only if Z did at the moment.

But it doesn't matter how we interpret things. It matters how 6 jurors do. I am just not seeing murder 2, but I do think there should be some criminal responsibility. If I had seen a grown man following a teen boy while driving in a car, then get out and follow him on foot.....my first thought would be some perve that was trying to do very bad things. If you saw Zim follow Trayvon on car then on foot...would you assume he was "being helpful"?

What? making up hypothetical scenarios is a futile exercise. It doesn't matter what I think, only what has been proven, and so far the prosecution has not proven that Z was unreasonable at the moment of the shooting. In fact, they seemed to have bolstered that case foolishly.

 

[year2late]

Re: Would you want & trust George Zimmerman to be on neighborhood watch where you liv

Dude, they didn't look serious enough when he went to the doctor!

Not serious enough for a stitch or an xray.


The funny thing is that I don't think Murder 2 is appropriate, but I do care that he lied about how the altercation unfolded. If the jury senses he lied, they may his accounts differently.