Would You Support Secession?

[RealityNow]

China out-built us over the past 50 yrs, with state of the art technology in their building style, we are about to embark upon a new building boom in America, with the Infrastructure plans. What many who fight it don't know, its only phase one. It will take phase two and phase three to diminish our debt and cover our unfunded obligation and that can be done within less than 30 yrs.
Many of these old block, tackle, deny and attack types... will be long gone, so their relevancy today, is not something that should be any burden upon building the future. They will die out in their own desperation of chasing the past and never know the greatness of the future that is continually unfolding each day.

These old heads who fight technology, they fight science and they are not educated in the higher uses of advanced mathematics; so their comprehension of how these are intermingled... is obvious.

In their ignorance, they choose the higher risk of death and death itself... in their denial of technology and science that provides vaccines against a deadly strain of virus. They will perish by and through their own ignorance.

Ephesians 4:18​

They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart.

Hosea 4:6​

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge, I reject you from being a priest to me. And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

Acts 17:30​

The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent,

 

[Chomsky]

[Cont'd Part 2 of 2]

Anyway, the point of all this above, is that I very strongly believe in a broad & rigorous liberal arts education, through undergrad, to have a lifetime foundation of knowledge & perspective. Then, follow it with a professional degree - to make your money. Your basic font of knowledge & history will only make you more effective in your profession & business, whether that be law, medicine, finance, or a business for yourself.

(I also highly encourage learning a profession on someone else's dime, then opening-up your own shop - but that's a whole 'nuther thing!)

BTW, all this collective education is really a blast, when the kids that are out come back for dinners & holidays. It's amazing to see how they've grown, the additional knowledge they've gained, and the amazing discussions they have with us & among each other. It re-enforces in my mind, that I did the right thing, with them. And the best part? The kid that took his own untraveled path? Several years later at a yard party he had for his oldest friends, including many of his prep school friends, he admitted to me the things he did at the school were the best things he ever did. He now loves his H.S. experience, and highly values and credits it, including the influence it had on his attaining his (really cool!) profession. In fact, all the kids now, as young adults, greatly appreciate their educations. Each one! They tell me, and thank me!

I went back to the business the second day to complete some business items, and he wanted to talk more, I shared a few minutes with him and wished him well in being a studious learning and prolific investigator for facts and to learn the principles.

Awesome! The reason I push a liberal education so strongly, is not just of the education itself, but how it opens up a thirst for more knowledge along with providing the context to understand the acquired knowledge!

Stimulate the mind, and they will develop their own desire to continue that stimulation. Get them reading at the very youngest age. Whatever you can find that interests them. The important thing is to get them reading, to get them desiring knowledge. Many of the more successful students have a commonality - they like to read! Start them early, whatever it takes, and you've developed a life-long habit & endeavor!

 

[bomberfox]

I chalk the secession talk under "things not thought through."

Can you imagine the devastating economic effect of having every military base and federal office in Texas close? Or Florida? Or Georgia?



Then of course, these new borders would have to be defended, so remaining states would have windfall opportunities to boost their economies.

Theres basically one side that hates compromise too. It might force these people to think for a second.

 

[RealityNow]

[Part 1 of 2}



Excellent advice!

Very luckily being the product of a Catholic Prep, thanks to hard-working loving parents, I sent my kids to the same. I wanted them to have a broad liberal education, especially in reading, writing, critical thinking, debate, history, etc. I also did not neglect the sciences & math went them, either, particularly math! I wanted breadth of knowledge for them, along with historical perspective & critical thinking. In fact, I cut them deals where if they took several classes & activities during their prep school experience, I promised I would give them total latitude in their university experience, and support them unconditionally in whatever they so chose.

In addition, I strongly encouraged them to continue with a strong liberal arts undergrad from the best school that would take them, then finish with a graduate professional degree. I do believe a rigorous liberal undergrad education, followed by a brand name professional graduate degree, is one of life's most empowering combinations.

One kid took to this like nothing I've seen, a real book worm, and she shocked me with her zeal, performance, and successes, including post education successes in her professional life.. Another did very well too through undergrad, but took awhile to get her grad degree. Still, she made it, and is doing well.

The last kid did phenomenally well through H.S., but then took a totally unexpected track in freshman year at the university. He held me to my earlier words, in giving him complete autonomy while still supporting him. He did everything I asked at the prep school, even though some of it was only to please my wishes & guidance (at the time). So now, when he insisted on taking an unconventional path I never considered - something I was dead against before he graduated - I had no choice but to fulfill my end of the bargain and support him in his endeavor. A deal was a deal. I knew if these kids did as I asked in H.S., they would have the basic preparation to move-on in life - no mater what they chose to do post H.S. (or when they chose to do it). So, I gave him his choice and supported him emotionally, physically, & financially, even though I had huge doubts. True to my doubts, the kid's path took many excruciating twists & turns!

But, guess what? The unconventional kid, through tenacity, drive, and force of determination, overcoming obstacles that might have crushed others, succeeded wildly in what he chose to do! Seriously, he is now doing what very few men can do, and it's something I doubt I could do, nor could most I know. And he did it by 23!

{Cont'd below]

Much Respect to you and the open minded vision to know they are the future !!! and being able to enjoy seeing them achieve and do well.

• Remember, Howard Graham Buffett, Warren Buffet's son took his own path and he has done very well and is a great contributor within society.

There is no life path without rocks and stones, uneven terrain and some have weeds, thistle and thorns. But when you equip a child with the backing and emotional support and if possible financial support.. they will travel their path and find the means to do good.

I talk to my son, grandkids about the path and trajectory and the self investment to navigate society and life, my grandkids parents give them steady, good and sound advice, emotional, and financial support in these developing years, already may grand son is working in the field of finance he chose when he was in his teens, and he has been considered as gifted to be given good levels of responsibility in his work. My grand daughters goes to a high standards well established university school on full ride scholarship she earned herself.
My son has always had self employment aspiration he first had a shot running his step dads business, he had it own trucking business and now has his own real estate brokerages and his wife has more than 20 yrs in her own independently owned law firm. They are strongly "family oriented and intimately connected"... embrace God principles in their decision making. Much credit goes to my son's mothers family... in this life process.

 

[RealityNow]

[Cont'd Part 2 of 2]

Anyway, the point of all this above, is that I very strongly believe in a broad & rigorous liberal arts education, through undergrad, to have a lifetime foundation of knowledge & perspective. Then, follow it with a professional degree - to make your money. Your basic font of knowledge & history will only make you more effective in your profession & business, whether that be law, medicine, finance, or a business for yourself.

(I also highly encourage learning a profession on someone else's dime, then opening-up your own shop - but that's a whole 'nuther thing!)

BTW, all this collective education is really a blast, when the kids that are out come back for dinners & holidays. It's amazing to see how they've grown, the additional knowledge they've gained, and the amazing discussions they have with us & among each other. It re-enforces in my mind, that I did the right thing, with them. And the best part? The kid that took his own untraveled path? Several years later at a yard party he had for his oldest friends, including many of his prep school friends, he admitted to me the things he did at the school were the best things he ever did. He now loves his H.S. experience, and highly values and credits it, including the influence it had on his attaining his (really cool!) profession. In fact, all the kids now, as young adults, greatly appreciate their educations. Each one! They tell me, and thank me!



Awesome! The reason I push a liberal education so strongly, is not just of the education itself, but how it opens up a thirst for more knowledge along with providing the context to understand the acquired knowledge!

Stimulate the mind, and they will develop their own desire to continue that stimulation. Get them reading at the very youngest age. Whatever you can find that interests them. The important thing is to get them reading, to get them desiring knowledge. Many of the more successful students have a commonality - they like to read! Start them early, whatever it takes, and you've developed a life-long habit & endeavor!

Again, CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU !!!!! AND MUCHWITHIN WISHES AND GRACES TO YOUR CHILDRENS CONTINUED GROWTH, DEVELOPMENT AND SUCCESSES.

Thank you also, for understanding what I've shared. If you know my posting history, I'm not one to be shallow, slack, passive or ignoring facts of history that many try to avoid learning. I have no issue with being blunt and raw when and as necessary. I care to share information to those who care to engage information. Those who fight against it, try and label it to suit their fears... does not dissuade me for talking about what many have spent their lives avoiding to think, investigate, apply critical thinking and embrace their denialisms. I don't come to forums to play games, I share information, and hopefully inspire those who want to learn, to pursue learning, to advance themselves beyond their fears and the folklore fears that have encircled them in their environments, to be aware, be motivated and learn to advance themselves beyond the backwards regressive influences.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The Constitution does not allow for secession, EMN.

The constitution is silent on the topic and the idea that secession is illegal only became accepted because the south, very stupidly, started a war and lost.

In actuality though there is some recognition for the idea secession is legal because the seceding states were treated as militarily occupied territories and had to be re-admitted as states. Re-admission would be unnecessary If they never truly left.

 

[RealityNow]

The constitution is silent on the topic and the idea that secession is illegal only became accepted because the south, very stupidly, started a war and lost.

In actuality though there is some recognition for the idea secession is legal because the seceding states were treated as militarily occupied territories and had to be re-admitted as states. Re-admission would be unnecessary If they never truly left.

You evidentially don't understand what and why these laws exist

18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES​

It might even be to your enlighten, to know that it was the systems created under Representative Democracy and Regulatory Governance, that the Judicial and Legislative Branch's of United States Governance, made sure these laws are firmly in place.

It does not matter if you don't learn and don't understand... it won't change anything about the Judicial, Legislative and Governing Systems of This Nation.
There are nearly 1,770 judgeships authorized across the 209 courts in the federal court system and 13 Federal Appellate Districts Courts and a Supreme Court... That interprets the laws... not the "folklore whims of public citizen individuals" .

You might some day learn, the Constitution is not silent on anything that concerns the Nation. That's why it established "A Legislative Branch" to deal with any variable, particular or specific matter, issue, concerns, right and legislating regulatory governance. It's evident you don't know as much as you think you know about The Constitution.

So, spin on in any type of anti governance that turns you on... you only agitate yourself.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You evidentially don't understand what and why these laws exist

18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES​

It might even be to your enlighten, to know that it was the systems created under Representative Democracy and Regulatory Governance, that the Judicial and Legislative Branch's of United States Governance, made sure these laws are firmly in place.

It does not matter if you don't learn and don't understand... it won't change anything about the Judicial, Legislative and Governing Systems of This Nation.
There are nearly 1,770 judgeships authorized across the 209 courts in the federal court system and 13 Federal Appellate Districts Courts and a Supreme Court... That interprets the laws... not the "folklore whims of public citizen individuals" .

So, spin on in any type of anti governance that turns you on... you only agitate yourself.

It is not treason or sedition to call for altering the government through legal and peaceful means. Save your fingers the cramps

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Show me where Congress has declared war with any of these alleged “enemies”.

So, is it your position that there was no such thing as "The Korean War", or "The Vietnam War", or "The Gulf War (both v. 1 and v.2) ?

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

No, this is the only thing that matters. If we’re not at war then that country is not our enemy.

You know, technically that actually makes sense.

The other country may well be a "competitor" but it is not an "enemy".

Of course, the net result of "losing a competition" could well be indistinguishable from "losing a war" in that the society of the losing country ends up getting changed beyond recognition.

 

[Chomsky]

The constitution is silent on the topic and the idea that secession is illegal only became accepted because the south, very stupidly, started a war and lost.

In actuality though there is some recognition for the idea secession is legal because the seceding states were treated as militarily occupied territories and had to be re-admitted as states. Re-admission would be unnecessary If they never truly left.

??

Where do you come up with this stuff?

It's been settled for over a century & a half! "Texas v White" (1869).

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

It’s amazing how the left loves Tito, a corrupt alcoholic womanizing old windbag who killed lotsa people and call Pinochet a war criminal.

You don't have to "love" Tito to recognize that it was only his authority and prestige that kept the various factions in Yugoslavia from engaging in all out genocide against all of the other factions. The same can be said for Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

PS - Since you choose to live in the United States of America, tell me what is so wrong about having a corrupt alcoholic womanizing old windbag as a head of state (please use Mr. Trump to illustrate your points).

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

You evidentially don't understand what and why these laws exist

18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 115—TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES​

It might even be to your enlighten, to know that it was the systems created under Representative Democracy and Regulatory Governance, that the Judicial and Legislative Branch's of United States Governance, made sure these laws are firmly in place.

It does not matter if you don't learn and don't understand... it won't change anything about the Judicial, Legislative and Governing Systems of This Nation.
There are nearly 1,770 judgeships authorized across the 209 courts in the federal court system and 13 Federal Appellate Districts Courts and a Supreme Court... That interprets the laws... not the "folklore whims of public citizen individuals" .

You might some day learn, the Constitution is not silent on anything that concerns the Nation. That's why it established "A Legislative Branch" to deal with any variable, particular or specific matter, issue, concerns, right and legislating regulatory governance. It's evident you don't know as much as you think you know about The Constitution.

So, spin on in any type of anti governance that turns you on... you only agitate yourself.

When are you going to recognize that 18 USC 115 refers to VIOLENT OVERTHROW and does NOT refer to "voting to leave the union and then doing so"?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You don't have to "love" Tito to recognize that it was only his authority and prestige that kept the various factions in Yugoslavia from engaging in all out genocide against all of the other factions. The same can be said for Saddam Hussein in Iraq.

PS - Since you choose to live in the United States of America, tell me what is so wrong about having a corrupt alcoholic womanizing old windbag as a head of state (please use Mr. Trump to illustrate your points).

Trump is a teetotaler and has been his whole public life. He literally went to the UN and did a toast with Diet Coke in a champagne glass.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

??

Where do you come up with this stuff?

It's been settled for over a century & a half! "Texas v White" (1869).

Texas v White is NOT a part of the Constitution of the United States of America - it is "judge made law" (and, given the proximity to the American Civil War, likely not to have actually been very sound judge made law at that).

 

[EMNofSeattle]

??

Where do you come up with this stuff?

It's been settled for over a century & a half! "Texas v White" (1869).

If we used exclusively the jurisprudence of 1869 then we can make abortion and sodomy illegal again. Ok I’ll accept your argument if you will argue for that

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Trump is a teetotaler and has been his whole public life. He literally went to the UN and did a toast with Diet Coke in a champagne glass.

OK, so Mr. Trump is only 80% of a corrupt alcoholic womanizing old windbag.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You know, technically that actually makes sense.

The other country may well be a "competitor" but it is not an "enemy".

Of course, the net result of "losing a competition" could well be indistinguishable from "losing a war" in that the society of the losing country ends up getting changed beyond recognition.

I mean maybe so. But many countries lose badly based on international competition. Argentina hasn’t been at war with another country for over a century and has been pretty much cleaned out internationally

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Russia has repeatedly engaged in activities hostile to the US for the years at this point. The fact that open fifth columnists have a crush on him does not change the fact that he is an enemy of the US.

And, equally, the US has repeatedly engaged in activities hostile to Russia for years.

Mind you, the Russians did not invade the United States of America like the US did after WWI.

 

[Moi621]

YES !

Support The FREE Bear Flag Republic
California
Too little of our Federal Tax Dollars
are spent in California.
California did a better job of Indigent
Medical Care before LBJ's MediCaid destroyed it.

California doesn't need the Federals.
There will always be, California


Moi
Californian

STOP ​

 

[Chomsky]

If we used exclusively the jurisprudence of 1869 then we can make abortion and sodomy illegal again. Ok I’ll accept your argument if you will argue for that

I accept the jurisprudence in standing. I can't speak to your denial.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

And, equally, the US has repeatedly engaged in activities hostile to Russia for years.

Mind you, the Russians did not invade the United States of America like the US did after WWI.

We didn’t technically invade the Russians either, we sent military forces to Russia to assist White Russians and then left when the Japanese appeared like they wanted to seize real estate from Russia and then also the White Russians fell apart. We backed a faction of Russians and didn’t necessarily try to take over Russian territory.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Oh look, you are wrong again......on both accounts. The districts in Northern Ireland were carefully gerrymandered to ensure that the Catholics had absolutely no say in government, the local police forces(which were riddled with sympathizers and allies of Unionist death squads throughout their history) were almost entirely Protestant, male unemployment for Catholics was almost three times that of male Protestants, and peaceful protests to try and change those issues were attacked by the police completely unprovoked.

No amount of squirming from you can change the fact that the Nationalist movement was nothing more than a stalking horse for genocidal foreign regimes.


It’s interesting that you tearfully sob over members of the Catholic Church getting in trouble for literally committing treason, but have absolutely no problem with a two bit Jim Crow knockoff in Northern Ireland. You desperately trying to deny the facts doesn’t change them. And no amount of hysterically shrieking “but commies” can change the fact that it was the brutal oppression the Unionists inflicted in Northern Ireland which led to the Troubles.

My GOSH!!!

Now you are coming out against the very bedrock foundation of the American electoral process - Gerrymandering.

Have you no shame sir?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I accept the jurisprudence in standing. I can't speak to your denial.

But you also accept that all it takes is new jurisprudence then. So if the long accepted laws against homosexual acts and abortion can be changed by a new ruling then all it takes is the new ruling and you can’t treat the old one as sacrosanct

 

[Chomsky]

Texas v White is NOT a part of the Constitution of the United States of America - it is "judge made law" (and, given the proximity to the American Civil War, likely not to have actually been very sound judge made law at that).

What the heck are you talking about? It's a freakin' SCOTUS ruling!