Would you recite the pledge?

[Demon]

That's a good point, Demon. I don't know how a teacher can prevent that. Maybe periodically going over the phrases and re-explaining it would help.

That would probably be more informative than mindlessly repeating something day after day.

 

[Emily L]

Different strokes for different folks. If the teacher had wanted me to think that the pledge of allegiance was a demonstration of patriotism rather than compulsory nationalism, she would have respected my choice. Incidentally, this also would have been a demonstration of respect for the first amendment.

In any case, I can’t help but notice that those who are most adamant about the pledge of allegiance and their love for the flag are the most dedicated to ending democracy in the United States.



Assuming that the people who attempted an insurrection on January 6 are dialed to 11 on the American flag and the pledge of allegiance, I’d say it’s not working.

Cardinal, since I'm a conservative who disagreed strongly with the attack on the Capitol, I agree with your concerns. I don't know why some far-right groups seem to want to end democracy.

Maybe, like you said, the pledge should be voluntary, as per the wishes of the parents. Maybe that would be the solution.

 

[anatta]

then pledge, the anthem - yes. I value what we have. Nothing is perfect in this world.
But looking at our history of immigration many others in the world will risk their lives to get here.
We must be doing something correct

 

[RaleBulgarian]

You teach them to recite the alphabet as a precursor to learning reading and writing skills.

You’re confusing memorizing with learning. The two are far from synonymous.

The words of the pledge speak for themselves. It's an oath of loyalty to the state and to Christianity.

Both in contradiction of our Constitution that grants Americans the rights of free expression, movement, association with those of our choosing, accepting or rejecting any religion, etc..

I’ve taken two oaths (1 of them several times) in my life. When I joined our Navy and subsequent reenlistments, and on the day my wife and me were married. Both of my own choosing, as any oath/promise should be made.

 

[AGENT J]

Would you recite the pledge?​

depends on the reason, i would though but haven't in like 29 years

The pledge of allegiance. Let’s think about it. How important is knowing that we are imperfect, but nevertheless the greatest country in the world?
"Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".
Do you believe this?

yes

The complete rejection of any form of patriotism among some citizens is troubling.
They may feel that tearing down our decades old value system is the only way to gain justice.
The reality is that tearing America down will only gain further misery.

I agree and I'm so happy those nutters failed when they tried that crap on jan 6th
our value and government system prevailed and they failed

Please, no all Americans are racists garbage. It's just not true.

agreed its not but way to many are.
I used to think it was around 10% but recent history proved to be wrong and to be very naive about that.
Now i feel its a solid 33% unfortunately but the majority still are not.

 

[Grandpappy]

None of you commies have answered my question. So, where does your allegiance lie?

No answer yet. Their training didn't specify it, so they aren't sure.

Still nothing. Did you want me to make a guess?

 

[venice_ca]

How important is knowing that we are imperfect, but nevertheless the greatest country in the world?

There's room for debate as to whether the USA is greatest in the world.

I don't like pledging my allegiance to a piece of fabric. My allegiance lies with the U.S. Constitution, and the people of this country.

~“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.”

 

[SoCal]

I'm not an educator (I was hardly a student), but I think that children begin to question and understand the pros and cons of our government at about the time they start studying American history. They discuss the reasons for the Revolution, the Bill of Rights, etc., and begin to question such things. I believe it is at that point that any kind of "indoctrination" gets a little looser and they start drawing their own conclusions. That's one of the reasons I don't think the pledge is harmful.

Well that's my point, how's that going to happen when conservatives refuse to allow teachers to use history books that teach the reality of our history? Fairy tales are wonderful and inspiring for innocent children to believe in, but at some school age well before K12, they need to be exposed to and told the truth...

 

[soap box]

None of you commies have answered my question. So, where does your allegiance lie?

My allegiance is to the Republic for which it stands. I want the preservation of the union. I want our country to go back to being a healthy democracy.
Sometimes patriotism means I oppose threats to our democracy. It's patriotic to oppose things that have shamed us throughout our history as the USA. because there is much we don't want to repeat.
Have you ever met a Lincoln Democrat before?

 

[Deuce]

Still nothing. Did you want me to make a guess?

You didn't answer. Where does your loyalty lie? With Joe Biden?

I already answered for myself. I don't owe "allegiance" to anyone. I have no king.

 

[Captain Adverse]

How many countries' constitutions, legal systems and human rights records did you study before reaching that conclusion?

Interesting question. I might ask the same of you.

How many have YOU studied to come to the conclusion this nation isn't the the most free with the most protections for individual freedoms?

Seems that millions of people seek to come here from all over the world these days. Our only real competition is Western Europe, mostly because it's easier to walk to...not so much Ocean in-between.

Meanwhile we keep hearing from those "refugees" who do reach our borders that they are seeking "asylum" from "oppressive" situations.

Now I used to think Canada and the other "British" nations were our equals. But lately, since Covid-19, we have the examples of Australian and Canadian "Administrative State" actions to "protect" their citizens from other citizens.

In any case, with a few rare exceptions, I'd say the OP and the member you responded to are both on the right track...as least for the nonce... Although some people with "Other" in their political lean seem to differ.

 

[cpwill]

Well the Soviet Union collapsed forty years later, so I guess it worked.

See? Conclusive Proof!

 

[Deuce]

Interesting question. I might ask the same of you.

How many have YOU studied to come to the conclusion this nation isn't the the most free with the most protections for individual freedoms?

Seems that millions of people seek to come here from all over the world these days. Our only real competition is Western Europe, mostly because it's easier to walk to...not so much Ocean in-between.

Meanwhile we keep hearing from those "refugees" who do reach our borders that they are seeking "asylum" from "oppressive" situations.

Now I used to think Canada and the other "British" nations were our equals. But lately, since Covid-19, we have the examples of Australian and Canadian "Administrative State" actions to "protect" their citizens from other citizens.

In any case, with a few rare exceptions, I'd say the OP and the member you responded to are both on the right track...as least for the nonce... Although some people with "Other" in their political lean seem to differ.

In Amsterdam I can smoke weed while banging a hooker in front of a cop and if the weed turns out to have been spiked with something I don't have to worry about going bankrupt from hospital bills.

Whatcha got? Millions more incarcerated?

 

[soap box]

None of you commies have answered my question. So, where does your allegiance lie?

About allegiance, the Pledge is not to a president, or a general, or any individual. We are making a promise every time to each other, to this country. That's also where my allegiance lies.
That's important to remember when people get carried away with a single person who said, " I alone can fix it"

 

[Grandpappy]

About allegiance, the Pledge is not to a president, or a general, or any individual. We are making a promise every time to each other, to this country. That's also where my allegiance lies.
That's important to remember when people get carried away with a single person who said, " I alone can fix it"

Agreed. The only answer so far.

 

[What if...?]

The pledge of allegiance. Let’s think about it. How important is knowing that we are imperfect, but nevertheless the greatest country in the world?
"Indivisible, with liberty and justice for all".
Do you believe this?
The complete rejection of any form of patriotism among some citizens is troubling.
They may feel that tearing down our decades old value system is the only way to gain justice.
The reality is that tearing America down will only gain further misery.
Please, no all Americans are racists garbage. It's just not true.

Never have. Never will.

I'm a William Tell kinda guy.

 

[Parrish]

Which other country offers better liberty and justice?

That's the thing. Liberty and justice aren't perfect, but no other country pushes as hard for it as we do.

Not true.

 

[soap box]

But Christianity isn't the only religion that has a "God." And to be honest, if the parents would like for their child to skip that part, then it should be skipped.

This might be one of those things that we might have to agree to disagree on. I'm kind of running out of arguments. I might even be wrong about this whole thing (likely). There must be something I'm missing. If I had a towel with me, I'd probably throw it in. Can I borrow one from you?

The towel? Not so fast. I won't name names but a few posters around here, combined together, don't know half the child psychology you intuitively understand.They have unknowingly posted statements to you about ideas that were dismissed by brain research in the 1990's. It's a scientific fact that the brain undergoes a switch in puberty that results in a rejection of everything that suddenly seems childish. That means you are correct, a child can say the Pledge a million times and they might only stop to think for themselves when they grow up. In the meantime it is a simple way children can identify their country.
Neurologists can rock occasionally.
When I was maybe 6 years old, I thought they were saying " where four witches stand , one nation... " and I turned out okay.

 

[Deuce]

Which other country offers better liberty and justice?

That's the thing. Liberty and justice aren't perfect, but no other country pushes as hard for it as we do.

Denmark, France, Sweden, Germany...

 

[Lovebug]

We, husband and I, believe that people have more in common than what the 24 hr media leads us to believe. Yes, we recite the poa, we stand for the anthem, we pull over for funeral possessions (esp military), we say "thank you for your service" when coming across a veteran.

 

[mrjurrs]

Modified by Congress, yes, to add "under God" to fight off the Commies back in the 50s.

Exactly why 'Hollywood' added the American way to the things Superman fought for. And the American masses remain as woefully unaware as they were back then.

 

[Emily L]

Well that's my point, how's that going to happen when conservatives refuse to allow teachers to use history books that teach the reality of our history? Fairy tales are wonderful and inspiring for innocent children to believe in, but at some school age well before K12, they need to be exposed to and told the truth...

I agree completely, SoCal. I believe there's nothing wrong in discussing (with older children) slavery, civil rights conflicts, violent protests, etc., along with the positive things. The main positive thing is that our government provides a means through which we can change and improve the negative things. I really don't understand why my fellow conservatives--or any other faction--would be against that.

 

[Emily L]

Not true.

Then why are you here in the U.S., Parrish? My bet is that you're here because you know that the government gives you the means through which you can change things. That's the beauty of our government.

 

[Emily L]

The towel? Not so fast. I won't name names but a few posters around here, combined together, don't know half the child psychology you intuitively understand.They have unknowingly posted statements to you about ideas that were dismissed by brain research in the 1990's. It's a scientific fact that the brain undergoes a switch in puberty that results in a rejection of everything that suddenly seems childish. That means you are correct, a child can say the Pledge a million times and they might only stop to think for themselves when they grow up. In the meantime it is a simple way children can identify their country.
Neurologists can rock occasionally.
When I was maybe 6 years old, I thought they were saying " where four witches stand , one nation... " and I turned out okay.

Thanks, Soap! My bet is that you must know something about early childhood, maybe even an educator, yourself. But please don't give yourself away here--it would spoil the fun we're all having!

 

[Emily L]

Denmark, France, Sweden, Germany...

Well, if you're right about those other countries having the freedoms we here in America have, then I'll stand corrected. But it was my impression that the U.S. is the only country that has a collection of personal rights and freedoms that other countries don't have, e.g., a Bill of Rights, arms rights, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, etc. Other countries certainly have some of those things, but they don't have them all. At least, that's my understanding.