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Would you prefer to send your children (and/or fund) Charter Schools over Public Schools?

Would you prefer to send your children (and/or fund) Charter Schools over Public Schools?

  • Total voters
    66
Captain Adverse said:
The problem is this. Certain segments of our society push to support "public schools" controlled by teacher unions and school boards with "political education agendas."

For decades public schools have been "dumbing down" lessons to suit the lowest performers, and have recently started eliminating "advance placement" classes in the name of "equity." Then there is the mass politicization of education, adding the negative of indoctrination instead of education.

Parents in general, with of course exceptions, don't appreciate their kids NOT getting the best education possible. They expect schools to teach, not indoctrinate.

Charter Schools still have to meet basic education standards, but because the teachers are not "locked in" by union contracts, they have to perform to standards or they lose their jobs. That job is to properly educate so kids can meet the parent's goal of getting them a better shot at improving their future lives.

Seems to me some people don't think this is as important as pushing political indoctrination.
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Believe it or not I'm actually more cynical on this matter than are you.

I don't believe they're dumbing down the curricula in the name of equity. I believe they're doing it because it's easier to author and administer one lesson plan (which happens to be aimed at the lowest common denominator) than it is to develop multiple lesson plans geared to students at different levels.

FWIW, this is the principal reason we left our local trad and applied to a charter. We have the good fortune of having academically strong kids, and they simply weren't being challenged because too many teachers (not all) at our local elementary were too lazy to do their jobs well. That was decidedly not the case at our local charter, to everyone's benefit.
 
vegas giants said:
You can read the original studies right there. If you dispute them cite your evidence


Until then....it seems you just dont like the messenger
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In this thread I have cited studies from MIT and Stanford that support my assertions. You're welcome to read them.
 
Captain Adverse said:
The problem is this. Certain segments of our society push to support "public schools" controlled by teacher unions and school boards with "political education agendas."

For decades public schools have been "dumbing down" lessons to suit the lowest performers, and have recently started eliminating "advance placement" classes in the name of "equity." Then there is the mass politicization of education, adding the negative of indoctrination instead of education.

Parents in general, with of course exceptions, don't appreciate their kids NOT getting the best education possible. They expect schools to teach, not indoctrinate.

Charter Schools still have to meet basic education standards, but because the teachers are not "locked in" by union contracts, they have to perform to standards or they lose their jobs. That job is to properly educate so kids can meet the parent's goal of getting them a better shot at improving their future lives.

Seems to me some people don't think this is as important as pushing political indoctrination.
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Thanks for proving my point about what the push for charter schools is all about.. Republicans like YOU hatred of unions...
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Thanks for proving my point about what the push for charter schools is all about.. Republicans like YOU hatred of unions...
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I didn't risk my kids' primary education to make a political point. I, like thousands of other parents, made an informed decision and chose a charter. Subsequent events have proven it to be the right choice, and no amount of pro-union jingoism is going to convince me otherwise.
 
NatMorton said:
In this thread I have cited studies from MIT and Stanford that support my assertions. You're welcome to read them.
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And you are welcome to read my studies.


I welcome your direct criticism of them
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Thanks for proving my point about what the push for charter schools is all about.. Republicans like YOU hatred of unions...
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1. I am not Republican.

2. I currently belong to a "union" at my present employment.

3. I don't "hate unions," I hate Union leadership that loses it's way. I.e. who forget their job is to maintain reasonable job requirements and fair wages. IMO NOT to push political agendas of their own which may not even reflect what the majority of the members want.

Your response is full of assumption bias, making a personal attack on no basis other than such bias.

That means you have no argument, so you are forced to resort to fallacious attacks.

Tagline time. :coffee:
 
vegas giants said:
And you are welcome to read my studies.


I welcome your direct criticism of them
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Against my better judgement I went back to Ravitch's rag and looked at what was there. There are no links to the studies cited and no conclusive passages quoted that can be challenged. Furthermore, there seems to be nothing there about MA charters.

So, if you have a study you'd like to cite, please do so yourself (with a link) and quote the relevant passages, as I have done here, repeatedly.
 
Captain Adverse said:
1. I am not Republican.

2. I currently belong to a "union" at my present employment.

3. I don't "hate unions," I hate Union leadership that loses it's way. I.e. who forget their job is to maintain reasonable job requirements and fair wages. IMO NOT to push political agendas of their own which may not even reflect what the majority of the members want.

Your response is full of assumption bias, making a personal attack on no basis other than such bias.

That means you have no argument, so you are forced to resort to fallacious attacks.

Tagline time. :coffee:
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You can almost set your watch by them.
 
NatMorton said:
Against my better judgement I went back to Ravitch's rag and looked at what was there. There are no links to the studies cited and no conclusive passages quoted that can be challenged. Furthermore, there seems to be nothing there about MA charters.

So, if you have a study you'd like to cite, please do so yourself (with a link) and quote the relevant passages, as I have done here, repeatedly.
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You dont know how to copy and paste those studies into google?

I want you to deny they exist first
 
Aside from the fact that charter schools are almost universally a grift, the fact that PragerU, Cato, Reason, the GOP, and other anti-government kleptocratic groups and think tanks support them so vigorously should give anyone pause. With all the public resources that go into failed charter schools, the deficits in the public education system could be fixed and then some. Charter schools bleed resources, and when the schools fail, which many of them do -- then what?

In addition:

 
vegas giants said:
You dont know how to copy and paste those studies into google?

I want you to deny they exist first
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No, I'm not going to waste my time given the source you provided. Ravitch is not to be trusted on this subject, as I have demonstrated.

What I deny is that there are studies that disprove the assertions I've made about MA charters. If you have one that does, by all means, let's see it.
 
NatMorton said:
No, I'm not going to waste my time given the source you provided. Ravitch is not to be trusted on this subject, as I have demonstrated.

What I deny is that there are studies that disprove the assertions I've made about MA charters. If you have one that does, by all means, let's see it.
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You deny what you admit you have not read


Says it all for me. Lol
 
Dans La Lune said:
Aside from the fact that charter schools are almost universally a grift, the fact that PragerU, Cato, Reason, the GOP, and other anti-government kleptocratic groups and think tanks support them so vigorously should give anyone pause. With all the public resources that go into failed charter schools, the deficits in the public education system could be fixed and then some. Charter schools bleed resources, and when the schools fail, which many of them do -- then what?

In addition:

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And yet, better student outcomes in charters.
 
NatMorton said:
At some point you're going to come to the realization that ad hominem will get you nowhere.
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At some point you will realize that pretending to play the middle doesn't work. This isn't Fox, pretty smart people here. They can see threw the BS..

And CA is about as much as a libertarian as I am..

Have a nice day..
 
More: https://www.ncsl.org/research/education/charter-schools-research-and-report.aspx

In 2004, the U.S. Department of Education published a report indicating that more than half of all charter school authorizers had trouble closing a charter school that was not performing well. Charter schools not being held accountable for their results is a problem because it is a prominent feature of the charter school concept. Recent research from the Center for Education Reform (CER), a charter advocacy group, indicates that 12% of all charter schools that have opened have been closed, with more than two thirds of the closures coming as a result of financial deficiencies or mismanagement. CER argues that this "shows that ineffective schools first demonstrate the inability to remain financially viable or effectively operate well before there are signs that the school is struggling academically." However, critics suggest authorizers fail to close those schools that are academically failing but are still fiscally competent.
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...

The results of the Mathematica study gives context to previous research. A well-publicized study of charter schools by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) in 15 states and the District of Columbia studied 70% of the students enrolled in charter schools in the U.S. They found 17 percent of charters posted academic gains that were significantly better than traditional public schools, 37 percent of charter schools were significantly worse, and 46 percent were statistically indistinguishable. Another recent study by Zimmer et al. found that charters in five jurisdictions were performing the same as traditional public schools, while charter schools in two other jurisdictions were performing worse.
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Basically, charter schools are a BAD SOLUTION to deficits in the public education system, that actually make the problem worse, not better.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
At some point you will realize that pretending to play the middle doesn't work. This isn't Fox, pretty smart people here. They can see threw the BS..

And CA is about as much as a libertarian as I am..

Have a nice day..
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It's not a question of how smart you are. It's a question of what you can prove, and you've proven little here today except that you have an irrational bias against charter schools.

You have a nice day, too.
 
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