One need take into account that the actual referendum of 2017 showed a voter turnout of around 43 pct. So even if a 100pct vote for secession had occurred (which it didn't, although it came close), the significance is zilch.The best argument in favour of it, which you didn't present to me, and which I was ignorant of up until now - because as I said, I haven't got all the facts (and that's why I asked - I'm not trying to appear a know-it-all here), is the independence referenda.
80.8% of the cast votes supported the Yes–Yes option, 10.1% the Yes–No, 4.5% the No option.
2014 Catalan self-determination referendum - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Ok, well in light of that, I have to agree, they should be given self-determination.
I'm still waiting for objective analysis to see if it would be better for them economically, but they have the right to do what they like.
Just as Britain had the right to stick its own head on a pike by going through the motions with Brexit..
Much like my position on Brexit, I don't see any argument for Scotland to be significantly better off or worse off as an independent nation, with much of the balance being down to random events. Also like Brexit though, there would be massive disruption, argument and costs in the process of transition, but multiplied many times given the much greater scale and scope.
I don't see the EU being all that bothered either way about an independent Scotland joining, and some EU nations may well object to it for their own reasons. I certainly don't see them gaining any of the special benefits the UK had, they'd just be treated as another new and relatively small applicant. It would also create an entirely new land border between the EU and the (r)UK, potentially leading to a whole load of new issues there.
Where are you getting that from. The idea had been in the offing for decades before and was a Labour manifesto pledge in the previous election. I'm not sure Labour would have pushed for devolution if there wasn't significant call for it, but I'm aware of zero evidence of it being forced on anyone.
I'm not talking about either England, Scotland or the UK overall, I was (if you re-read) speaking of Spain in general and Catalonia in particular (seeing how YOU brought it up in the post I responded to).
Much like my position on Brexit, I don't see any argument for Scotland to be significantly better off or worse off as an independent nation, with much of the balance being down to random events. Also like Brexit though, there would be massive disruption, argument and costs in the process of transition, but multiplied many times given the much greater scale and scope.
I don't see the EU being all that bothered either way about an independent Scotland joining, and some EU nations may well object to it for their own reasons. I certainly don't see them gaining any of the special benefits the UK had, they'd just be treated as another new and relatively small applicant. It would also create an entirely new land border between the EU and the (r)UK, potentially leading to a whole load of new issues there.
Also, the process of joining the EU, even if it was accelerated, would take many years and Scotland would likely need to be independent for many years before even starting the process to be able to establish and demonstrate the economic and political stability that is required. Again, not significantly better or worse off in the end but facing long transition years either way.
Where are you getting that from. The idea had been in the offing for decades before and was a Labour manifesto pledge in the previous election. I'm not sure Labour would have pushed for devolution if there wasn't significant call for it, but I'm aware of zero evidence of it being forced on anyone.
The only clear benefit of Scottish independence I can see is that I'd be able to apply for dual nationality, but I'm not nearly arrogant enough to consider that worth the costs and risks.
Harp on this as much as you like (regarding Spain), the referendums on Catalonian independence (both the 2014 self-declared non binding one and the 2017 one held in defiance of Spanish law) were illegal by the legal parameters of this here country.
Same here!
So i see it, too
You could suggest why it would necessarily be better. Note that the national government of an independent Scotland is an entirely different prospect to the current devolved administration (for good or bad). We don't know what form a new Scottish government would take or who would end up in the key decision making roles, so I'm not sure how you can make definitive statements either way.
Which one? I only found one from back in 2014 which pointed out how dishonest and misleading the statements from the strong proponents on both sides of the debate can be, and concluded that there are too many unknowns to say for certain (https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-independent-scotland-worse).
From the point of application yes (and you missed out on countries with slightly shorter processes), but I pointed out, an newly independent Scotland wouldn't be able to apply straight away. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just pointing out that it wouldn't be anything like as quick or easy as the proponents would like us to believe.
If we give Scotland a “geographical share” of oil revenue – working on the most likely assumption that hydrocarbons in the Scottish part of the North Sea would become Scottish assets after independence – Scotland has paid in a bit more than it takes out in recent years.
Today’s Treasury paper glosses over this fact by saying:
“Including a geographic share of oil revenues, Scotland’s overall fiscal position has on average been broadly the same as the UK’s since devolution.”
That may be “broadly” true but it doesn’t tell the whole story. In four out of the last five years, if you include oil, Scotland has paid in more to the Treasury than it has taken out as a percentage.
very well said!
Scotland is more Europa.friendly than England!
True...but I doubt the EU subsidizes their economy in anywhere near similar a manner.
Hahaha, ever since Brexit, Scotland has been missing out.
To be clear...I do not care either way what Scotland does.
Well, you were speaking in the present tense and, of course, the EU isn't currently subsidizing Scotland at all.