Would you, Could you, with a gun?

[Seth]

I would call 911, or if I worked there, I'd offer the woman a safe room to wait for the cops to arrive.

There are adults here?

( )

Fair point

 

[Lovebug]

That narrator needs to have his mouth washed with soap. English is a beautiful language, why muck it up?

As for the incident, I don't see the need for a weapon other than a footlong. Why even bring it up? Perhaps one could ask both parties to calm down, firmly but politely. Idk, we don't have all the information, we don't know what happened prior.
Assess the situation, talk. Don't escalate a situation because you carry or because you know how to put someone in a choke hold.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Sinnik, the host of that video is so offensive--in more than one way--that I had to stop watching at the 2:24 mark. But I think I heard enough to be able to answer your question.

I'm very much a coward, but if I had a gun, I would have pulled it out, aimed it at him and stood between him and the woman. I would tell the woman to run out the door as I tried to continue to hold the man at bay, and I would ask somebody there to call the cops. If the man charged me--or threatened anybody else in the store--I guess I would have to pull the trigger, but it would haunt me the rest of my life.

It's easy for me to think I might be able to do that, but all I know for sure is that I would desperately pray that God would lead me to do the right thing.

(Things like this remind me how tough a cop has to be. God bless them.)

The soft on crime in democrat run cities is going to catch up to these folks. Keep your bullshit lack of prosecuting crimes in your bs cities.

 

[SiNNiK]

A gun would not be my first choice in that situation but I would do what I could to help protect her. Pepper spray would be the first choice.

I'm trained in the use of firearms but I haven't fired a gun in over 30 years and I certainly dont carry or even own one for multiple reasons.

A side note, if you are trained in the use of firearms, then you know proficient shooting is a perishable skill. Are you still considered trained after 30 years of inactivity?

Probably not.

 

[SiNNiK]

Don’t need beyond a reasonable doubt. From the video she was being chased. She was being cornered and used the chip rack to block the bum. She jumped the counter to escape. Don’t think there would be any trouble justifying her actions had she pulled and probably even fired (if he continued his attack) in just what I saw.

There is always the possibility of the mistaken threat crap which is why I will only expose when absolutely necessary to save a life mainly me and mine.

If I can carry so can she. This lesson should educate her in how she probably should have a means to protect HERSELF. Close calls are very often educational. Good people finally exposed to the absolute evil that is out there. Can’t tell you how often someone, who all they have ever been exposed to is good peaceful law abiding people, suddenly gets confronted by a vicious animal. I sell many many guns to folks that survived a close call. It sucks that they didn’t learn from the close calls of others as I did.

No words ever spoken have been more profound than "If I can carry so can she."

I would definitely not get involved, but things like this can go from threatening to deadly in absolutely no time. I would not have waited until the first act of violence before I head out the door.

Am gone.

 

[SiNNiK]

idgaf


No one needs a gun to intervene in that situation.

You just need to be a human who is there.

More than once I've seen a small woman with nothing but wits and moxie stand up to a group of men who were out of line.

YOU DON'T NEED A GUN FOR EVERYTHING

You just have to be willing.

No one needed a gun in this situation to intervene.

It'd be a chickenshit move to pull out a gun in this instance.

Would you feel more compelled to interfere if the homeless person hit the woman?

How about if the homeless individual grabbed her?

 

[Lisa]

A side note, if you are trained in the use of firearms, then you know proficient shooting is a perishable skill. Are you still considered trained after 30 years of inactivity?

Probably not.

Obviously not. I don't care and dont want to be at this point.

 

[SiNNiK]

Obviously not. I don't care and dont want to be at this point.

Then why would you bring it up if you don't care?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Would you feel more compelled to interfere if the homeless person hit the woman?

How about if the homeless individual grabbed her?

That would change the situation to a violent crime in progress, but this is in California so one would be at risk of violating the special rights of the ‘homeless’ (a protected class?) to do much as they please as well as adding a “while armed” enhancement to any criminal charges which might result from your intervention.

 

[Daddyo]

You watched some one get raped and you did nothing?

You watched someone get killed and you did nothing?

Sheesh.
That seems like an explanation right there.



de-escalation is a thing, fwiw

Not every potential conflict has to go to violence.
MOST POTENTIAL CONFLICTS DO NOT RESULT IN VIOLENCE.


de-escalation uses skills. skills are thing which can be learned and which get better with practice.

When you only consider violence as an option, violence is the only option.
But, IRL, it ain't like that.


fine.
This whole thread is about a hypothetical situation.
The way the hypothetical is framed is ****t.

My bad bud. I’ve watched ON VIDEO. Forgot a couple very important words. My apologies.

I’ve also been selling guns for a living for 3 decades now. I have sold them to men and women who had just survived an ordeal. From rape to attempted murder. From hammer induced comas to loosing an eye from the attack. I’ve seen holes going in one side and out the other. I’ve even seen ( the end results after the event) an amputation because of the attack.

Deescalation???? When I say the use of deadly force is as a last resort I assume you understand that it includes deescalation, retreat, avoidance, less than lethal, bluffing, and every other tool we have to avoid using deadly force.

No one I know only considers violence as an option. I believe that is manufactured in the minds of anti gunners. Just as you assumed that because we carry a firearm, that we wouldn’t use those other tools in an encounter. By carrying a firearm we simply have a tool capable of covering all of the force continuum. A tool in which we can project lethal force when all else has failed or when it is the only option possible as with an active shooter. Those who don’t carry become victims when all those other tools fail.

 

[Daddyo]

Hmm… should the homeless man have been charged with attempted murder?

No he should have been charged with Assault.If he shoved the chip rack into the woman, battery also.

 

[Daddyo]

I'm not a 115 pound woman. I'm a 6'-7" tall 250 pound man. Which is why no firearm would have been necessary, I do not consider the guy to be a threat.

My point is what if the person being attacked OR the person trying to help is only 115 pounds. Would a firearm potentially be necessary then?

 

[SiNNiK]

That would change the situation to a violent crime in progress, but this is in California so one would be at risk of violating the special rights of the ‘homeless’ (a protected class?) to do much as they please as well as adding a “while armed” enhancement to any criminal charges which might result from your intervention.

A well thought out position. Thank you.

 

[hecatmoggie]

If you, for whatever reason, were armed and witnessed this, would you intervene on that woman's behalf?

I would most likely not get involved.

I have gotten involved in several situations and interveved

When weak people can't, they need to get out of the way and allow the strong people to

 

[SiNNiK]

I have gotten involved in several situations and interveved

When weak people can't, they need to get out of the way and allow the strong people to

Thank you for your response. Does that mean I can put you down as a yes?

 

[SiNNiK]

That narrator needs to have his mouth washed with soap. English is a beautiful language, why muck it up?

As for the incident, I don't see the need for a weapon other than a footlong. Why even bring it up? Perhaps one could ask both parties to calm down, firmly but politely. Idk, we don't have all the information, we don't know what happened prior.
Assess the situation, talk. Don't escalate a situation because you carry or because you know how to put someone in a choke hold.

I carry everywhere I go and am on record as saying I would not get involved.

Why would you get involved?

 

[ttwtt78640]

A well thought out position. Thank you.

It’s hard to get laws against ‘aggressive panhandling’ passed and/or enforced.

Aggressive panhandling - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hecatmoggie]

Thank you for your response. Does that mean I can put you down as a yes?

yes

I think I'm strong enough to have stood up for what's right and help someone

 

[SiNNiK]

yes

I think I'm strong enough to have stood up for what's right and help someone

What causes you to want to intervene?

 

[hecatmoggie]

What causes you to want to intervene?

I was approached by a woman one day at a road side park years ago who was in a state of shock and hurt .... .... and I intervened not knowing if the person(s) who did it were still around or not. Very tense for a while until I got her in my car and left the scene. When we met with police, the guy was like "I think she's in shock" and I said no shit sherlock. He took her to an ER - I do not know what went on after that. Best story I could get from her was she was beaten (bloody/bleeding) and thrown from a car. I suspect raped

My son's best friend (a 17 year old girl) was being physically attached by her grandfather - and I intervened. he was a big man too - very violent, very in your face and aggressive and I called the police immediately and he was glad to hit a young 17 year old but not me and I'm only 5'9" and 170# .......... funny how that works. But he didn't know if I was carrying a gun or not (I was) and so likely he wasn't too anxious to find out.

What causes me? Doing the right thing causes me.

Yesterday I was loading dirt into a trailer at a place that has free dirt (a new strip mall) . An old man drove up, carried two 5 gal buckets to get him some dirt and a little spade. I went over, said hi, lets do this .... filled his buckets and carried them to his old truck. At which time I discovered he didn't want two 5 gal buckets of dirt, he has ten buckets he wanted filled lol !! no worries, just another 15 minutes of work.

Doing the right thing sometimes is hard, sometimes its work, sometimes its much tougher than others.

my brother and I were taking out after a long 2 day float on a river. Long story short, there were 3 little kids by this dangerous section of river - actually very dangerous, swift, swirling water with metal/rocks ..... anyway, two of those girls fell in and got swept into that .... he didn't think twice about running and diving in after them. I was 5 steps behind and I did the same. We saved those girls from drowning that day. We could have both drowned too. Watching the kids drown wasn't an option.

in fact, second time I went into the water after drowning kids. .... the first time I did it I almost drowned too, maybe the closest to dying I've ever been


doing the right thing is tough and some people are incapable of doing it - get out of the way please, and let people who CAN do the right thing do it

 

[Simon W. Moon]

My bad bud. I’ve watched ON VIDEO. Forgot a couple very important words. My apologies.

You watch weird videos of folks getting raped.

I’ve also been selling guns for a living for 3 decades now.

No wonder you took exception to my obviously true statement that "You don't need guns for everything."

Deescalation???? When I say the use of deadly force is as a last resort I assume you understand that it includes deescalation, retreat, avoidance, less than lethal, bluffing, and every other tool we have to avoid using deadly force.

Really?

When I said a gun was not needed for this situation, you told me, "So wrong."

So wrong.

A gun was not used and everyone was fine.
That evidence supports my assertion that a gun was not needed for this situation.

No one I know only considers violence as an option. I believe that is manufactured in the minds of anti gunners.

Actually, that assumption is implicit in the framing of the OP.

Additionally, I'm not some sort of w/e you mean by "anti gunner"

That's two strikes against you assertion here.
Do you care to withdraw it?

Or would you prefer to be obdurate and to persist in error?

Just as you assumed that because we carry a firearm, that we wouldn’t use those other tools in an encounter.

You mind reading helmet is broken.
I do not assume that.

I was pointing out that not only was a gun unnecessary, violence was unnecessary in this situation.
I was also pointing out that I'm not trying to say I'm Batman and gonna pound some goons in the dirt.

Just pointing out the obvious.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Would you feel more compelled to interfere if the homeless person hit the woman?

How about if the homeless individual grabbed her?

I'm willing to meet force with force if I think it's helpful, if that's what you're asking.

idk if I'd be more compelled to take an action in general though.
ime, a lot of people have only temporary attention spans.
Sometimes, a distraction and redirection are sufficient to slow a roll.

violence isn't for fun or for expressing "manliness", it's just for damaging folks
you can't take it back. once you do it, it's done forever.

I believe in the Golden Rule

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Good for you Batman, now we know who to call on if such an emergency happens at a Subway near us.

See, you're still locked into the idea that violence is the only option.
[ See @Daddyo ? ]

The way the OP was not well-framed.


If you kept reading my posts, you saw that I considered more options than just violence

 

[Lovebug]

I carry everywhere I go and am on record as saying I would not get involved.

Why would you get involved?

Why not?

 

[SiNNiK]

I was approached by a woman one day at a road side park years ago who was in a state of shock and hurt .... .... and I intervened not knowing if the person(s) who did it were still around or not. Very tense for a while until I got her in my car and left the scene. When we met with police, the guy was like "I think she's in shock" and I said no shit sherlock. He took her to an ER - I do not know what went on after that. Best story I could get from her was she was beaten (bloody/bleeding) and thrown from a car. I suspect raped

My son's best friend (a 17 year old girl) was being physically attached by her grandfather - and I intervened. he was a big man too - very violent, very in your face and aggressive and I called the police immediately and he was glad to hit a young 17 year old but not me and I'm only 5'9" and 170# .......... funny how that works. But he didn't know if I was carrying a gun or not (I was) and so likely he wasn't too anxious to find out.

What causes me? Doing the right thing causes me.

Yesterday I was loading dirt into a trailer at a place that has free dirt (a new strip mall) . An old man drove up, carried two 5 gal buckets to get him some dirt and a little spade. I went over, said hi, lets do this .... filled his buckets and carried them to his old truck. At which time I discovered he didn't want two 5 gal buckets of dirt, he has ten buckets he wanted filled lol !! no worries, just another 15 minutes of work.

Doing the right thing sometimes is hard, sometimes its work, sometimes its much tougher than others.

my brother and I were taking out after a long 2 day float on a river. Long story short, there were 3 little kids by this dangerous section of river - actually very dangerous, swift, swirling water with metal/rocks ..... anyway, two of those girls fell in and got swept into that .... he didn't think twice about running and diving in after them. I was 5 steps behind and I did the same. We saved those girls from drowning that day. We could have both drowned too. Watching the kids drown wasn't an option.

in fact, second time I went into the water after drowning kids. .... the first time I did it I almost drowned too, maybe the closest to dying I've ever been


doing the right thing is tough and some people are incapable of doing it - get out of the way please, and let people who CAN do the right thing do it

You have yet to describe a scenario in where you helped someone and it ended badly. Are you avoiding those instances or were there no negative consequences to helping others, in your experience?