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Would there have been 911 & would we have been bombed in UK if there was no Israel ? (1 Viewer)
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Jay R
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London Tube bombing is usually abbreviated to 7/7, that title's a little messy.
As for the question, Israel isn't really the issue for the terrorists operating within Europe and the US. The 9/11 attack was targeted at the heart of the financial community, an attack on the western industrialised world at large that just happened to occur on US soil. The London and Madrid train bombings were targeted by domestic terror groups to try and influence the two countries policies regarding the US led occupation of Iraq, terrorists cannot operate via democratic opinion because their beliefs are of no interest to the moderate majority of our societies, so they opt to terrify people, communities, organisations and even nations into doing as they say. Britain held firm in the face of such attack and saw the culprits for what they were, it doesn't change the British public's scepticism over Iraq, but neither did it get us to change according to the wishes of the murderous minority. Spain on the other hand rolled over and voted in a Liberal government mere days later.
The terrorists operating in the middle East are trying to achieve two goals. The overthrow of certain governments seen to be 'traitors' for their dealings with the west, having unwillingness to implement Islamic law, or a general dissaffection with leadership. Saudi Arabia is a good example. The second goal, and a more general one, is the destruction of Israel. Some groups are actively involved in this on a day to day basis, others will just cite it as something they support as a part of their propaganda and rhetoric. Terrorists planning and carrying out attacks in the US and EU are focussed on attacking our societies primarily to cause damage the prosperity that we have, and that we are supposedly denying to the Muslim world. As such there is every liklihood that we are targets regardless of what stance we adopt towards Israel.
That's a very brief summary, terrorism is a complex and convoluted business and every group will have a subtley different agenda and motivation. For example some terrorists are citing the Koranic principles of converting and conquering non-Muslim lands as an implicit instruction to seek to create an entirely Muslim world. In this case Israel is completely irrelevent, because the terrorist wants all of us either coverted to Islam and living under Islamic law, or dead.
As for the question, Israel isn't really the issue for the terrorists operating within Europe and the US. The 9/11 attack was targeted at the heart of the financial community, an attack on the western industrialised world at large that just happened to occur on US soil. The London and Madrid train bombings were targeted by domestic terror groups to try and influence the two countries policies regarding the US led occupation of Iraq, terrorists cannot operate via democratic opinion because their beliefs are of no interest to the moderate majority of our societies, so they opt to terrify people, communities, organisations and even nations into doing as they say. Britain held firm in the face of such attack and saw the culprits for what they were, it doesn't change the British public's scepticism over Iraq, but neither did it get us to change according to the wishes of the murderous minority. Spain on the other hand rolled over and voted in a Liberal government mere days later.
The terrorists operating in the middle East are trying to achieve two goals. The overthrow of certain governments seen to be 'traitors' for their dealings with the west, having unwillingness to implement Islamic law, or a general dissaffection with leadership. Saudi Arabia is a good example. The second goal, and a more general one, is the destruction of Israel. Some groups are actively involved in this on a day to day basis, others will just cite it as something they support as a part of their propaganda and rhetoric. Terrorists planning and carrying out attacks in the US and EU are focussed on attacking our societies primarily to cause damage the prosperity that we have, and that we are supposedly denying to the Muslim world. As such there is every liklihood that we are targets regardless of what stance we adopt towards Israel.
That's a very brief summary, terrorism is a complex and convoluted business and every group will have a subtley different agenda and motivation. For example some terrorists are citing the Koranic principles of converting and conquering non-Muslim lands as an implicit instruction to seek to create an entirely Muslim world. In this case Israel is completely irrelevent, because the terrorist wants all of us either coverted to Islam and living under Islamic law, or dead.
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Re: Would there have been 911 & would we have been bombed in UK if there was no Israe
Can you explain just how they are a pain to your backside?
Another question could be Is Palestine worth it?
pobinr said:
Can you explain just how they are a pain to your backside?
Another question could be Is Palestine worth it?
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pobinr said:
You need to lay off the crack son!
superskippy
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Why is Israel a consideration in this? Osama Bin Laden and Al-Quada have launched no attacks against Israel, have not cited Israel as the reason for their attacks and have made the reasons quite clear, and their rhetoric is actually rarely put against Israel.
Al-Quada has deep hatred for America and the UK, for very proclaimed reasons.
We may not be the reasons, but we will gladly aid you against them. I'm sure in the world of cloak and dagger our specialty we do more than just that.
Al-Quada has deep hatred for America and the UK, for very proclaimed reasons.
We may not be the reasons, but we will gladly aid you against them. I'm sure in the world of cloak and dagger our specialty we do more than just that.
Mr. D
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Re: Would there have been 911 & would we have been bombed in UK if there was no Israe
You must spend alot of time in Tel'Aviv if you have never read Osama Bin Ladin's statements listing Israel's treatment of Palestinian Muslims as one of his reasons for hating Israel and it's big brother the U.S.
That is not his main concern! It is more accurate to say that the Western influence on Islamic countries is the main concern of Islamic Fundamentalists Terrorists, but Israel's actions are also a big part of it! Oversimplified, they want the West to get their influence out of Muslim majority countries so they can get back to Sharia law and fundamentalist Islam of the Middle Ages! Osama wants modern industrialization in the Middle East without the effect of Western culture!
superskippy said:
You must spend alot of time in Tel'Aviv if you have never read Osama Bin Ladin's statements listing Israel's treatment of Palestinian Muslims as one of his reasons for hating Israel and it's big brother the U.S.
That is not his main concern! It is more accurate to say that the Western influence on Islamic countries is the main concern of Islamic Fundamentalists Terrorists, but Israel's actions are also a big part of it! Oversimplified, they want the West to get their influence out of Muslim majority countries so they can get back to Sharia law and fundamentalist Islam of the Middle Ages! Osama wants modern industrialization in the Middle East without the effect of Western culture!
jennyb
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and i suppose you think the world would be all peace and love and la dee da if there were no israel as well? you are blaming israel for other religions hatreds of her..that is her fault? dont you think it is a better thing if there were no islamic fundamentalists? i dont know about you, but i have no desire to live under sharia law........no music, no dancing, a woman can be excecuted at the whim of her husband, or be imprisoned for showing skin...no voting, no alcohol, continuous praying.....no thanks,,,,yes the fight for israel is VERY well worth it.....it means freedom for all..israel is not known as americas sister for nothing use your head...THINK:roll:
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Such circular and highly racist illogic.
You might as well say that African Americans must be at fault here in the states, because obviously the KKK hates them. The hate exists, therefore the objects of the hate must be the cause of the hate, and since the KKK hates them, and we have decided they are the cause of the hate, then we must support the KKK. If the KKK wishes to exterminate them, then this would remove African Americans as the cause of their hatred and so we must support such removal because that would end the hate.
Wow -- genocide is a virtue. Who woulda thunk?
You might as well say that African Americans must be at fault here in the states, because obviously the KKK hates them. The hate exists, therefore the objects of the hate must be the cause of the hate, and since the KKK hates them, and we have decided they are the cause of the hate, then we must support the KKK. If the KKK wishes to exterminate them, then this would remove African Americans as the cause of their hatred and so we must support such removal because that would end the hate.
Wow -- genocide is a virtue. Who woulda thunk?
superskippy
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Re: Would there have been 911 & would we have been bombed in UK if there was no Israe
Al-Qaeda has fired off more rhetoric against Denmark and France than it has against Israel. Which is a telling sign of what someones motivator is if your in the Middle East.
Osama Bin Laden makes passing reference to the Palestinian cause at times, but never does he make it an issue or and never has he launched an attack against Israel or even operated in the territories or as evidence shows funneled any money to them.
Israel is not the issue for Al-Qaeda.
Mr. D said:
Al-Qaeda has fired off more rhetoric against Denmark and France than it has against Israel. Which is a telling sign of what someones motivator is if your in the Middle East.
Osama Bin Laden makes passing reference to the Palestinian cause at times, but never does he make it an issue or and never has he launched an attack against Israel or even operated in the territories or as evidence shows funneled any money to them.
Israel is not the issue for Al-Qaeda.
Mr. D
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Re: Would there have been 911 & would we have been bombed in UK if there was no Israe
Sometimes I wonder if people read posts before they disagree with them! Which post favored living under Sharia law? None of the recent comments even reflect on what is being said in most posts. Israel's treatment of Palestinian Muslims is a lesser issue, but it is still an issue. The terrorist leadership are not stupid or insane. They have specifc goals, and they are not to convert every person on earth to Islam or murder them! I know that's a nice simplistic view that justifies a new bloody, mindless crusade, but didn't we find out that thinking the situation in Vietnam and Iraq were both simple teach us anything? Evidently not! :doh
Sometimes I wonder if people read posts before they disagree with them! Which post favored living under Sharia law? None of the recent comments even reflect on what is being said in most posts. Israel's treatment of Palestinian Muslims is a lesser issue, but it is still an issue. The terrorist leadership are not stupid or insane. They have specifc goals, and they are not to convert every person on earth to Islam or murder them! I know that's a nice simplistic view that justifies a new bloody, mindless crusade, but didn't we find out that thinking the situation in Vietnam and Iraq were both simple teach us anything? Evidently not! :doh
