Women Should Be For Gun Rights

[Rucker61]

The most effective way to stop rape is for men to start talking about it.

When prevention fails, invention is the only solution left.

The victim is certainly talking about it to her attacker. Why doesn't that talk work?

 

[RF667799]

No that is not what I said at all. What I did argue was that if the sentence for murder is the same as for rape then a rapist would be better off killing their victims.

That is just asking people to think about the consequences of an extreme sentence not deciding just what the sentence should be.

That's why I asked how lenient with rapists we should be, to avoid those consequences.

 

[soylentgreen]

It is totally your problem being you that's making the horse crap claim!

I totally accept my responsibility to not harm innocents and to protect myself and family! The first is easy just follow the law! The second is very difficult at my age and considering that badguys often use numbers or weapons! So with consideration for all my personal self defense concerns I have chosen to carry a defensive firearm! I also carry in my vehicle a defensive rifle should the need for suppressive fire or extreme range ever arise.

It's no different than northerners keeping a winter survival bag in the car should they ever find themselves trapped in the cold.

I really could not care less about what you do in the way of self defense. It is not my place to tell you what to do. But disagreeing with a method of self defense is not disagreeing with self defense.

 

[soylentgreen]

Rape is also about an idiot giving himself an STI. Rape is one of the stupidest crimes ever.

Compared to some of the pain that an STI can inflict, some rapists would be wishing that they were shot down with guns by female prey.

I am not sure how to parse this. Is this kind of a back handed compliment to women to say that it is the rapist who will get an STI rather then give it.

 

[DebateChallenge]

Did you or did you not state that you would like to see the death sentence for rape? If yes, then that was the moment.

The death sentence or life in prison without parole, but how is that giving a rapist the opportunity to murder their victim?

 

[DebateChallenge]

Depends on the effect one seeks. If a person is lazy, careless of others life or simply wants to remove and inconvenient witness then yes, a gun is convenient.

You obviously don't know much about guns, gun training, and the effectiveness of guns in confrontations.

My point is to ask why bring a mugging into this?

Because its one of the ways in which women are sometimes attacked.

I believe it is known as an option to use deadly force rather than a must do type of thing.

The point is, its allowed by law in some situations.

The most effective way to stop rape is for men to start talking about it.

More of your phony baloney.

 

[soylentgreen]

That's why I asked how lenient with rapists we should be, to avoid those consequences.

You are conflating two different things. To avoid the consequences then we should be seeking to rehabilitate the offender. Where as your asking about what punishment should be served upon him so as to stop him reoffending for a certain period of time because he will be in prison. ( Let's not go into the issue of prison rape at the moment it will just muddy the water)

Does the punishment should fit the crime concept still exist in americas legal system?

 

[DebateChallenge]

Lol! And the badguy will just open his legs and allow that lol.

Your ignorance is now legendary lol.

soylentgreen obviously doesn't know much about self defense, he doesn't know much about self defense with guns and he doesn't know much about self defense period.

 

[soylentgreen]

The death sentence or life in prison without parole, but how is that giving a rapist the opportunity to murder their victim?

You got to be kidding!! I have explained this. Once again.

The opportunity for a rapist to murder their victim arises hopefully after the rape. When he realises the only person who can prove he raped the victim is the victim. Death sentence or life in prison both the same for rape or murder so what has he got to lose by killing her.

 

[DebateChallenge]

You got to be kidding!! I have explained this. Once again.

The opportunity for a rapist to murder their victim arises hopefully after the rape. When he realises the only person who can prove he raped the victim is the victim. Death sentence or life in prison both the same for rape or murder so what has he got to lose by killing her.

So what you're saying is that if rape has a less severe punishment than murder that it would make a rapist less likely to murder his victim because if he just rapes her and doesn't murder her he will get a lesser punishment.

 

[soylentgreen]

that is akin to saying surgery is not needed to address cancer.

No it is not.

An amusing choice of simile considering surgery is the one place you bring a knife instead of a gun.

The right to self defense exists separate to the 2A. Where as the 2A merely uses the right to self defense as an example for why there should be a 2A.

You said it yourself. If a person does not feel competent with a gun then don't use one.

 

[soylentgreen]

Why is is so hard for you to understand? We don't care about levels of completeness! Your solution that men police men to stop rape is a proven failure! An impossibility! Why you keep insisting that it's possible only shows a gross ignorance of the subject matter and a severe lack of critical thinking skills. You have been schooled already! You know most men have responded to the training that rape is wrong! You also know that some don't accept that training! Furthur you have been reminded that there are mental defects, controlled substance abuse, and just plain bad evil people that furthur exacerbate the rape issue!

So please enough with your nonsensical "it's other men's problem" garbage!

The danger to women is real. The ability to defend one's self is real.

I have you an incident that happened to my wife and a customer! Both women ready to stop a rapist! Both incidents involved another crime or danger! So rape isn't the only reason women SHOULD CARRY!

Can you explain to me why you think men are to stupid to learn?

 

[TurtleDude]

No it is not.

An amusing choice of simile considering surgery is the one place you bring a knife instead of a gun.

The right to self defense exists separate to the 2A. Where as the 2A merely uses the right to self defense as an example for why there should be a 2A.

You said it yourself. If a person does not feel competent with a gun then don't use one.

you missed the obvious point. cancer is a deadly problem that may require radiation, surgery, or chemotherapy. You cannot say until you encounter it, what solution or solutions is/are the best choice. Same with self defense. In come cases, a firearm is the single best choice.

 

[RF667799]

You are conflating two different things. To avoid the consequences then we should be seeking to rehabilitate the offender. Where as your asking about what punishment should be served upon him so as to stop him reoffending for a certain period of time because he will be in prison. ( Let's not go into the issue of prison rape at the moment it will just muddy the water)

Does the punishment should fit the crime concept still exist in americas legal system?

All that to respond to my post without addressing the question...

 

[soylentgreen]

Do you truly believe that with the proper level of education that no man will ever rape again?

No. What I really believe is that the men I have been debating are doing nothing more than whinging something is to hard and instead want women to resolve the issue for them.

They treat rape as if it was inevitable rather than preventive.

The other problem is that guns do spark an aggression impulse as does rape and most abuse towards women. It really is a throwing fire on fire situation.

 

[soylentgreen]

All that to respond to my post without addressing the question...

Did I not end by answering your question. The punishment should fit the crime.

A boss slapping a woman employee on the arse or making sexual references in its own way is harmful. But does it deserve the same punishment as a serial rapist?

 

[soylentgreen]

that's a valid point. If you ever saw the Onion Field, it shows what happens if a kidnapper thinks he will get fried whether or not he kills his victim.

I am not arguing for leniency for a rapist by pointing that out. But the first concern should be for the victims life, not the criminals punishment.

 

[soylentgreen]

When prevention fails, invention is the only solution left.

That basically is the problem with humans. When someone builds a better mouse trap. Some one else builds a better mouse.

The victim is certainly talking about it to her attacker. Why doesn't that talk work?

Abuse of women is a learned response. It is not a psychological problem. Women have learned not to be so submissive to men and now are leaders in their own right. If they can learn to change then why cannot men? The irony in that question is that the answer is because men do not want to talk.

 

[RF667799]

Did I not end by answering your question. The punishment should fit the crime.

A boss slapping a woman employee on the arse or making sexual references in its own way is harmful. But does it deserve the same punishment as a serial rapist?

The question is what punishment should a rapist be given to avoid provoking the rapist into homicide.

 

[soylentgreen]

You obviously don't know much about guns, gun training, and the effectiveness of guns in confrontations.

Because its one of the ways in which women are sometimes attacked.

The point is, its allowed by law in some situations.

More of your phony baloney.

I was obviously referring to motivation rather than experience with a gun.

Muggings can be simple robbery. Where as rape and abuse of women usually turn out to be personal.

Again, the law does not mandate use of a gun. It remains an option even by law.

I feel you, bro.

 

[TurtleDude]

All that to respond to my post without addressing the question...

yeah, the issue is should women be for gun rights? yes they should be because in some situations, a gun is the only thing that will save them. Talking about trying to go back and change an entire environment so that no rape will occur is both worthless in the context of this question and quixotic. It's like the gun banners who claim that if we could have just been like Japan since 1640 everything would be better

 

[Rucker61]

yeah, the issue is should women be for gun rights? yes they should be because in some situations, a gun is the only thing that will save them. Talking about trying to go back and change an entire environment so that no rape will occur is both worthless in the context of this question and quixotic. It's like the gun banners who claim that if we could have just been like Japan since 1640 everything would be better

Except for their misogyny, racism, etc

 

[soylentgreen]

The question is what punishment should a rapist be given to avoid provoking the rapist into homicide.

You do understand that is a leading question?

Considering that the rapist is committing murder with the belief he will get away with it. What makes you think punishment is his prime concern rather than concealment.

 

[soylentgreen]

you missed the obvious point. cancer is a deadly problem that may require radiation, surgery, or chemotherapy. You cannot say until you encounter it, what solution or solutions is/are the best choice. Same with self defense. In come cases, a firearm is the single best choice.

But only if you are competent with a gun.

The only difference here is that you say best choice and I say should be the last choice.

 

[TurtleDude]

But only if you are competent with a gun.

The only difference here is that you say best choice and I say should be the last choice.

true-and I do my best to increase competencies among those I know.