Women Should Be For Gun Rights

[HangLow]

LOL A new criminal is born every minute. As far as recidivism is concerned dealing with the reasons that criminals get caught in an endless loop of crime and imprisonment would be a huge help agree. The problem is that more criminals in prison means more profits for the private prison corporations so there is more interest in keeping the cycle going than rehabilitating felons so they don't return to jail. We imprison a higher % of our people that any other nation and yet our gun crime rate is also among the highest.

​

Now think about this nightmare...
The crime is irrelevant. The POINT is the DA offered him a deal and he pled guilty under that deal.
Then he was transferred OUT of the state-run prison and into a FOR-PROFIT prison
where suddenly his deal WENT away and he served another year and a half.
NO courts. NO lawyers. NO hearings. NO trial.
Just boom his sentence was DOUBLED.
HOW THE **** DOES THAT HAPPEN ????

 

[Rich2018]

​

Now think about this nightmare...
The crime is irrelevant. The POINT is the DA offered him a deal and he pled guilty under that deal.
Then he was transferred OUT of the state-run prison and into a FOR-PROFIT prison
where suddenly his deal WENT away and he served another year and a half.
NO courts. NO lawyers. NO hearings. NO trial.
Just boom his sentence was DOUBLED.
HOW THE **** DOES THAT HAPPEN ????

So fine the inmates for their crimes and pay a "grant" to the prison for the same ammount.

 

[soylentgreen]

Applying and receiving are two different animals in most universes.

My claim was that using a handgun for self defense in NYC is illegal. I didn't include without a permit and that was my fault! I was thinking it I promise. Now I did correct this in my follow-up. Which you ignored as usual. I even included figures to prove how few licenses have been issued.

So my claim has been amended. You can offer a rebuttal or perhaps some evidence of all or most legal applicants getting their permits. Without that it's clear that I have done more than enough to back my claim!

I had read the link and am well aware of your constitution so I knew you were mistaken about self defense being illegal. But you have explained this so need to keep on about it.

I do not disagree with your claim that americans in NY are made to jump through hoops to get a gun license. The issue we have is whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. It certainly is not illegal. Nor is it unconstitutional for a state to choose what laws they will make regarding the welfare of the people in that state, so long as it does not contradict constitutional law. And it obviously does not because these state regulations have been there for some time.

So simply backing your claim that it happens is not much of a backing for it should not happen.

I would hope that your not suggesting some extreme where every citizen of america is entitled to a gun, criminals, children , the suicidally depressed etc. So then it could be agreed that at least some regulation is necessary.

 

[TurtleDude]

I had read the link and am well aware of your constitution so I knew you were mistaken about self defense being illegal. But you have explained this so need to keep on about it.

I do not disagree with your claim that americans in NY are made to jump through hoops to get a gun license. The issue we have is whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. It certainly is not illegal. Nor is it unconstitutional for a state to choose what laws they will make regarding the welfare of the people in that state, so long as it does not contradict constitutional law. And it obviously does not because these state regulations have been there for some time.

So simply backing your claim that it happens is not much of a backing for it should not happen.

I would hope that your not suggesting some extreme where every citizen of america is entitled to a gun, criminals, children , the suicidally depressed etc. So then it could be agreed that at least some regulation is necessary.

you're wrong because the second amendment has only recently been applied to the states and it takes a while for those cases to hit the courts

 

[soylentgreen]

OK, as long as you are aware of the distinction when you say:

I was not aware I had implied in any way that foreigners was any part of the conversation. I find when it comes to gun debates best to stick to what happens in america than confuse some of the pro gun here with complications such as what happens in other countries.

 

[soylentgreen]

you're wrong because the second amendment has only recently been applied to the states and it takes a while for those cases to hit the courts

That is a trump trick. Just keep pretending the supreme court will keep listening to the same shitty arguments over and over.

It's just playing the old trick which only benefits lawyers of keep the court cases going till one or the other finally runs out of money to pay the lawyers.

 

[Daddyo]

I had read the link and am well aware of your constitution so I knew you were mistaken about self defense being illegal. But you have explained this so need to keep on about it.

I do not disagree with your claim that americans in NY are made to jump through hoops to get a gun license. The issue we have is whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. It certainly is not illegal. Nor is it unconstitutional for a state to choose what laws they will make regarding the welfare of the people in that state, so long as it does not contradict constitutional law. And it obviously does not because these state regulations have been there for some time.

So simply backing your claim that it happens is not much of a backing for it should not happen.

I would hope that your not suggesting some extreme where every citizen of america is entitled to a gun, criminals, children , the suicidally depressed etc. So then it could be agreed that at least some regulation is necessary.

You aren't understanding me again. In NYC you need a permit to purchase and or carry. There are like 5 different permits. The city rarely issues a permit to civilians!!!! The city RARELY issues permits to civilians!!!!!!!!!!!! So just because any law abiding civilian who wants a gun can legally purchase one with a permit.....if few or none get permits they cannot legally do so.

So when an otherwise law abiding and totally eligible NYC resident is denied a permit the constitution is being violated! When this happens you cannot by a gun like the link I provided said "anyone can" based on NYC law. They would be right if the permit applications were approve regularly but they are not. So for all residents in NYC some 8,400,000 armed self defense with a firearm is illegal for 8,337,000. That my friend is my point.

Any law abiding citizen should be allowed to carry. Florida is a shall issue state and a great example of how it should be done. No bias government official to block your right. If you are clean criminally, not mentally defective, and free of restraining orders you will get your license with a small amount of training.

And no permit or training is needed to simply purchase a firearm as in NYC. Just a clean background and not a crazy.

 

[Daddyo]

That is a trump trick. Just keep pretending the supreme court will keep listening to the same shitty arguments over and over.

It's just playing the old trick which only benefits lawyers of keep the court cases going till one or the other finally runs out of money to pay the lawyers.

You say you know our constitution. If you and I were justices and split on the intent of our founders with respect to individual vs militia, how would we figure out what the true intent was? I contend that it is our duty as justices to find out the founders intent. In doing so it is gin clear that our founders wanted citizens to have access to firearms. They LITTERALLY said it over and over many times during the constitutional convention and elsewhere.

So all the legal speak and lawyer battles be damned in this case as we know what the intent was.

Now if you still say it's a militia or state right you are going against our founders and your duty as a justice. You are allowing biases to manipulate your judgment. You are now an activist justice! It's really that simple. There is so much from our founders proving they wanted the people to have guns to protect themselves from the ruffian and government alike!

 

[Daddyo]

And Trump has nothing to do with it!

 

[soylentgreen]

You aren't understanding me again. In NYC you need a permit to purchase and or carry. There are like 5 different permits. The city rarely issues a permit to civilians!!!! The city RARELY issues permits to civilians!!!!!!!!!!!! So just because any law abiding civilian who wants a gun can legally purchase one with a permit.....if few or none get permits they cannot legally do so.

So when an otherwise law abiding and totally eligible NYC resident is denied a permit the constitution is being violated! When this happens you cannot by a gun like the link I provided said "anyone can" based on NYC law. They would be right if the permit applications were approve regularly but they are not. So for all residents in NYC some 8,400,000 armed self defense with a firearm is illegal for 8,337,000. That my friend is my point.

Any law abiding citizen should be allowed to carry. Florida is a shall issue state and a great example of how it should be done. No bias government official to block your right. If you are clean criminally, not mentally defective, and free of restraining orders you will get your license with a small amount of training.

And no permit or training is needed to simply purchase a firearm as in NYC. Just a clean background and not a crazy.

But they can buy a gun. The NY state cannot ban or restrict home ownership of a gun. What a person has in their own home has constitutional right to be there. But the state does have the right to restrict guns on the street in the public arena of which they have a mandate to govern.

If you want to make a good argument then stop trying to exaggerate the situation, it only invalidates your argument. You are not discussing the banning of a gun you are discussing the restriction of use of a gun.

The conditions between these two places are not the same. Each state has the right to determine its own laws. Because florida has such laws is not an argument that ny should also have those laws.

 

[soylentgreen]

You say you know our constitution. If you and I were justices and split on the intent of our founders with respect to individual vs militia, how would we figure out what the true intent was? I contend that it is our duty as justices to find out the founders intent. In doing so it is gin clear that our founders wanted citizens to have access to firearms. They LITTERALLY said it over and over many times during the constitutional convention and elsewhere.

So all the legal speak and lawyer battles be damned in this case as we know what the intent was.

Now if you still say it's a militia or state right you are going against our founders and your duty as a justice. You are allowing biases to manipulate your judgment. You are now an activist justice! It's really that simple. There is so much from our founders proving they wanted the people to have guns to protect themselves from the ruffian and government alike!

I honestly could not give a **** about your founding fathers. If they wrote a constitution in order that they be treated as if they wrote a holy writ never to be disputed or changed then they have written nothing of worth. The constitution of a people should reflect the people not some dead peoples vision of a society.

Do not try this patriotism crap it just brings out the anarchist in me.

 

[Rich2018]

I was not aware I had implied in any way that foreigners was any part of the conversation. I find when it comes to gun debates best to stick to what happens in america than confuse some of the pro gun here with complications such as what happens in other countries.

You said in post#1587:

Anyone who is 21 years old or above and has American citizenship can buy a gun in New York City.

And this is not true. You don't have to be a citizen to (legally) buy a gun.

 

[soylentgreen]

You said in post#1587:


And this is not true. You don't have to be a citizen to (legally) buy a gun.

The statement does not imply that it is the only condition that a gun can be bought. Simply that it is a condition. There are rules also covering visitors but why complicate things with points , while true, are not really relevant.

 

[Rich2018]

The statement does not imply that it is the only condition that a gun can be bought. Simply that it is a condition. There are rules also covering visitors but why complicate things with points , while true, are not really relevant.

Stop backtracking

You said:

I was not aware I had implied in any way that foreigners was any part of the conversation....

When you clearly referred to just "AMERICAN citizens"

Hello, in NY, people who are NOT American citizens are FOREIGNERS.


You were wrong. Just own it and stop backtracking.

 

[Daddyo]

But they can buy a gun. The NY state cannot ban or restrict home ownership of a gun. What a person has in their own home has constitutional right to be there. But the state does have the right to restrict guns on the street in the public arena of which they have a mandate to govern.

If you want to make a good argument then stop trying to exaggerate the situation, it only invalidates your argument. You are not discussing the banning of a gun you are discussing the restriction of use of a gun.

The conditions between these two places are not the same. Each state has the right to determine its own laws. Because florida has such laws is not an argument that ny should also have those laws.

Wrong they can't because in the city limits of New York you need a permit to purchase! So you didn't read my link as you said. Still ran your mouth like you are an expert though lol.

Again in NYC you need a permit to buy, posses, or carry a firearm. It's almost impossible to get one........see the numbers I posted above. They have essentially banned firearms from the vast majority of citizens in that city.

 

[Daddyo]

I honestly could not give a **** about your founding fathers. If they wrote a constitution in order that they be treated as if they wrote a holy writ never to be disputed or changed then they have written nothing of worth. The constitution of a people should reflect the people not some dead peoples vision of a society.

Do not try this patriotism crap it just brings out the anarchist in me.

You will find anarchy against this country futile because of the 2nd amendment.

Those founders provided an amendment process to change the constitution. Should the people want change there is a proper way. Until then the second amendment stands as an individuals right.

 

[Rich2018]

You will find anarchy against this country futile because of the 2nd amendment.

"anarchy against this country" ?

Perhaps you mean insurrection ?
And yes it was tried on Jan 6th and failed.

But the 2A doesn't keep America free from tyrants - its democracy does - and the respect people (largely) have for it.

Those founders provided an amendment process to change the constitution. Should the people want change there is a proper way. Until then the second amendment stands as an individuals right.

It does but it so badly needs repeal.

 

[soylentgreen]

Stop backtracking

You said:


When you clearly referred to just "AMERICAN citizens"

Hello, in NY, people who are NOT American citizens are FOREIGNERS.


You were wrong. Just own it and stop backtracking.

Fine, then I am wrong. About a point that has no relevance to the subject and was not even implied.

 

[Rich2018]

Fine, then I am wrong.

OK.

About a point that has no relevance to the subject and was not even implied.

Whatever.