WNBA - Why is it still even around?

[Bodi]

Since the WNBA raised $75 million from investors in 2022 in a single round, they can probably go a long time.

I'd add that if the NBA didn't have a revenue sharing agreement, a bunch of the NBA teams wouldn't be profitable either. Sounds kinda socialist, doesn't it....?

Not if they spend $70 Million to run the league for a year and the League only makes $60 Million dollars.

That starts the investors in a $10 Million dollar deficit....

 

[Visbek]

Not if they spend $70 Million to run the league for a year... investors that invested $75 million are looking for more than a $5 million dollar reward.

lol

So they've now gone from losing $10 million a year to $70 million?

Do you think the NBA is giving the WNBA $70 million a year? That the WNBA would classify that as revenue or income?

Do you think those investors bought the entire WNBA league for $75 million?

Did you miss the bit how this investment results in a $1 billion valuation for the WNBA?

By the way, perhaps I should introduce you to a few of the WNBA team owners.

Joe Tsai, net worth $8 billion
Mickey Arison, net worth $7 billion
Mohegan Sun casino, annual revenues around $1 billion
Herb Simon, net worth $3 billion
Ted Leonsis, net worth a *cough* paltry $1 billion

And so on. I.e. there is no question whatsoever that the WNBA would be just fine if it wasn't getting a few million from the NBA per year.

 

[Bodi]

lol

So they've now gone from losing $10 million a year to $70 million?

Investors have...

Do you think the NBA is giving the WNBA $70 million a year?

No. They give them $15 million
ESPN gives them $25 million but only gets a return of $20 million.

That the WNBA would classify that as revenue or income?

Do you think those investors bought the entire WNBA league for $75 million?

Did you miss the bit how this investment results in a $1 billion valuation for the WNBA?

By the way, perhaps I should introduce you to a few of the WNBA team owners.

Joe Tsai, net worth $8 billion
Mickey Arison, net worth $7 billion
Mohegan Sun casino, annual revenues around $1 billion
Herb Simon, net worth $3 billion
Ted Leonsis, net worth a *cough* paltry $1 billion

And so on. I.e. there is no question whatsoever that the WNBA would be just fine if it wasn't getting a few million from the NBA per year.

Lots of misdirection... the argument is that the WNBA loses money and that WNBA players complaining about not making much money should just be thankful that they have a league to play in. There you go... back on track.

 

[Earlier]

the NBA makes $8 BILLION dollars a year... the WNBA LOSES $10 Million dollars a year.

Oh boo hoo. $10 million out of $8 billion? Not very concerned here.

The NBA also almost entirely funds the WNBA. Is it fair to have WNBA players complaining about salaries not high enough?

They can complain as much as they want. There's no reason to assume that cuts would need to be made to individual salaries, as opposed to other expenses. Ultimately, since were talking 7 figure salaries, its up to the company to decide what is or isn't fair pay, but everyone certainly has a right to complain for better or worse.

"I'm at a loss for words sometimes, talking about this," she said. "It's unfortunate that men make more money for the same amount of work, or even less work."

Draymond Green responds like this:

"I'm really tired of seeing them complain about the lack of pay, b/c they're doing themselves a disservice by just complaining."

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The WNBA makes 60 million dollars but it costs $70 million to run... losing $10 million dollars a year.

I personally get tired of hearing the unequal pay argument... Serena makes the 4th highest salary out of men and women combined. Why? She draws interest, crowds, sales, more than most of the men and people pay, so she earns. Nobody really watches the WNBA. Why? It is sloppy and not interesting to watch. They lose money because the sport sucks. I will make a thread about women's soccer as well, because that one is even worse.

Honestly, that's so subjective that it's not a coherent argument for why the sport doesn't make as much money.

The WNBA generates revenues of $60 million annually, but it also has costs in excess of $70 million annually. So, the WNBA does not make money. It has turned an average $10 million net loss (revenue – costs) per year, since its inception in 1996.

Show me just how much of the costs relate directly to the player's salaries.

One of the main reasons that the WNBA remains in existence is that it is subsidized by the NBA, which are able to sustain this $10 million loss every year.

Does the WNBA Make Money? [2022 Salaries, Revenues, Profit]

With more and more people turning to sports during these lockdowns, the question everyone's wondering is does the WNBA make money?

selfimprovementbase.com

You know who is failing women's sports? Women and Feminists... they are not supporting the sports with their money...

Non sequitur. For all you know, the WNBA could just cut other unnecessary costs and be able to turn a profit while paying the players' higher salaries.

 

[Bodi]

Oh boo hoo. $10 million out of $8 billion? Not very concerned here.

NBA made $8 Billion
WNBA lost $10 Million

You realize that they are different leagues... right?

They can complain as much as they want. There's no reason to assume that cuts would need to be made to individual salaries, as opposed to other expenses. Ultimately, since were talking 7 figure salaries, its up to the company to decide what is or isn't fair pay, but everyone certainly has a right to complain for better or worse.

Just like the Soccer Equal Pay argument... it is based on Sexism

Honestly, that's so subjective that it's not a coherent argument for why the sport doesn't make as much money.

Show me just how much of the costs relate directly to the player's salaries.

Find it out yourself and use it against me if you can... that is how a debate works

Non sequitur. For all you know, the WNBA could just cut other unnecessary costs and be able to turn a profit while paying the players' higher salaries.

Red Herring.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

NBA made $8 Billion
WNBA lost $10 Million

You realize that they are different leagues... right?

Just like the Soccer Equal Pay argument... it is based on Sexism

Find it out yourself and use it against me if you can... that is how a debate works

Red Herring.

If LeBron James decides to identify as female, does the WNBA have a policy which would prohibit one of their teams from signing him?

 

[Serenity]

I enjoy watching basketball, both men and women's and don't care how much they are paid. That's up to them to negotiate.

On a list of things that concern me, it doesn't rate.

 

[Bodi]

If LeBron James decides to identify as female, does the WNBA have a policy which would prohibit one of their teams from signing him?

Her. Signing 'her'.

I hope not because he would score 200 points pretty easily.

 

[Earlier]

NBA made $8 Billion
WNBA lost $10 Million

You realize that they are different leagues... right?

And?

There's no reason to believe that the league couldn't increase pay for its players while cutting costs in others areas, not because they "have" to but simply because they can.

Just like the Soccer Equal Pay argument... it is based on Sexism

Oh silly, you're not one of those types who thinks that all "sexism" is created equal, or even necessarily a bad thing, in practice. Or demands that everyone be perfectly "consistent" just for the sake of "being consistent", whatever the hell that is even worth.

If the leagues think that there's a benefit in subsidizing WNBA or paying female players the same as male players, it's entirely their prerogative to do so.

So sit their on the sidelines and whine histrionically about "sexism" all you damn want, and see where it gets you. lmao

Find it out yourself and use it against me if you can... that is how a debate works

Red Herring.

No you find it out yourself. You're making the argument that the league's losses directly affect the player's salaries, but I'm not seeing that.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Many college football teams lose money every year. Should they be shut down, too?

When college football players on those teams start demanding salaries, sure.

 

[Bodi]

And?

There's no reason to believe that the league couldn't increase pay for its players while cutting costs in others areas, not because they "have" to but simply because they can.

So they pay the players more and get that money from where? Merchandising? Cost some hard working person their job? They are losing money and that means that to pay the players more they are going to lose money elsewhere.

Oh silly, you're not one of those types who thinks that all "sexism" is created equal, or even necessarily a bad thing, in practice.

Do you think that sexism can be a good thing?

Or demands that everyone be perfectly "consistent" just for the sake of "being consistent", whatever the hell that is even worth.

If the leagues think that there's a benefit in subsidizing WNBA or paying female players the same as male players, it's entirely their prerogative to do so.

You just contradicted yourself. They are exercising their prerogative by paying the players what they think they are worth.,

So sit their on the sidelines and whine histrionically about "sexism" all you damn want, and see where it gets you. lmao

This is a debate about League value and players salaries and here you are... a mere two posts or so into it and you are casting out veiled insults.

No you find it out yourself. You're making the argument that the league's losses directly affect the player's salaries, but I'm not seeing that.

I never even implied that. Not once. Literally.

 

[Earlier]

So they pay the players more and get that money from where? Merchandising? Cost some hard working person their job? They are losing money and that means that to pay the players more they are going to lose money elsewhere.

Not necessarily. They could just take the hit.

And even if they really "couldn't" take the hit, I don't see the problem.

Do you think that sexism can be a good thing?

Some can, some can't.

If you think that merely financing WNBA is "sexism" simply because it isn't profitable, then I'd still say it can be beneficial to do so.

You just contradicted yourself. They are exercising their prerogative by paying the players what they think they are worth.,

Then they can reconsider what they "think" they're worth. Perhaps they aren't thinking correctly.

This is a debate about League value and players salaries

I don't care about silly, subjective "value" arbitrarily defined by people who aren't even any good at appraising it to begin with.

Some people don't know true value when they see it, and foolishly and sheepishly ascribe "value" to something even when there is nothing worth ascribing to to begin with.

There are plenty of arguments people could make in favor of funding the WNBA regardless of whatever silly sets of symbols are being used to make nonsensical "value" judgments to begin with, and which don't change any of the inherent qualities of what said judgments are being ascribed to.

 

[Bodi]

Not necessarily. They could just take the hit.

And even if they really "couldn't" take the hit, I don't see the problem.

They are still losing money...

Some can, some can't.

Some sexism can be a good thing? Examples please...

If you think that merely financing WNBA is "sexism" simply because it isn't profitable, then I'd still say it can be beneficial to do so.

No. You have to actually read the argument if you want to sound informed.

I don't care about silly, subjective "value" arbitrarily defined by people who aren't even any good at appraising it to begin with.

It is not subjective... it is objective fact. The WNBA loses $10,000,000 dollars a year. I am not sure what frightens some of you about accepting this.

Some people don't know true value when they see it, and foolishly and sheepishly ascribe "value" to something even when there is nothing worth ascribing to to begin with.

You keep bringing up value... that was never part of my argument.

 

[Earlier]

They are still losing money...

They can afford to.

Please, do you really think that someone with $8 billion in revenue is living paycheck-to-paycheck just to put food on the table? Only poor people and those who can't manage money are forced to live a hardscrabble existence like that.

I'd wager that they can more than afford to take the loss without having to recoup it from any of their other expenses at all.

Some sexism can be a good thing? Examples please...

Funding the WNBA despite it "losing money" is a good thing.

No. You have to actually read the argument if you want to sound informed.


It is not subjective... it is objective fact.
The WNBA loses $10,000,000 dollars a year.

Nope. The objective fact is that how much they "lose" doesn't matter, and they can more-than-well "afford" to keep it going.

Nothing wrong with losing a little here and there.

I am not sure what frightens some of you about accepting this.

It doesn't frighten me. I simply don't care.

I think they should still fund it regardless of how much it's losing.

Or at least until it loses so much that the entirety of their profits (not just the WNBA's profits) are exceeded by their expenses. Let me know when the WNBA loses more than $8 billion a year or so.

 

[Bodi]

I'd wager that they can more than afford to take the loss without having to recoup it from any of their other expenses at all.


Funding the WNBA despite it "losing money" is a good thing.

Nope. The objective fact is that how much they "lose" doesn't matter, and they can more-than-well "afford" to keep it going.

Nothing wrong with losing a little here and there.


It doesn't frighten me. I simply don't care.

I think they should still fund it regardless of how much it's losing.

Or at least until it loses so much that the entirety of their profits (not just the WNBA's profits) are exceeded by their expenses. Let me know when the WNBA loses more than $8 billion a year or so.

You should open an Investment Banking Firm and use these phrases as your marketing... I am sure business people will be flocking.

 

[Fishking]

Lol, no. You wrote, and I quote: "The only other entity I know that can just keep existing while losing money is the government." I listed numerous entities, including sports teams, that lose lots of money.


Lol, no. Non-profits can operate indefinitely as long as they have a large enough endowment, or collect more donations, or can borrow money. E.g. Harvard's endowment is currently around $53 billion. If they lost $10 million per year, they could continue to operate for 5,000 plus years before running out of money.

The same goes for corporations. They can draw from previously stockpiled cash. They can get outside investments. If they're private, they can try to go public to raise money. If they're already public, they can sell stock, or try to go private.

Amazon lost money for 9 years in a row before turning a tiny profit.
Spotify lost money for 15 years before turning a profit in 2022.
Uber lost money for 11 years before turning a profit in 2021.
AirBnB lost money for about 8 years, turned a profit, then started losing money again.

Or, there's another source of cash here.... Can you guess what it is? Allow me to illustrate.

The Florida Panthers claimed they were losing $20-30 million per year. Take a wild guess who they asked to bail them out. Guess! Yep, it's that disgusting filthy money-losing government that you loathe so much. They put the touch on Broward County (or, to be more precise, anyone paying taxes in or to Broward County) for $86 million. The Panthers can go right on losing money, year after year, as long as The Evil Vile Money-Losing Government is willing to subsidize them.

In other words: Contrary to your glib claim, LOTS of organizations lose money and continue to operate, just like the WNBA.

No, they don't. Your examples fall flat because the WNBA literally doesn't make money, ever. Amazon has money to lose, which is mostly notional in the first place because you're talking about stock, which isn't actually money lost. The WNBA exists in a constant state of loss, in perpetuity.

No, it isn't. Since you missed it, the WNBA organization raised $75 million in an investment round in 2022. There are numerous ways they could raise additional funds.

As noted in an earlier post, I also have a healthy skepticism of a league proclaiming "we're losing money!" -- but not providing any evidence thereof -- whilst engaged in salary negotiations with the players.

You have a skepticism of something that's a well-known fact?

Anyway, my point is that no one has some sort of vague identity-based obligation to watch a specific sporting event. Sports should be for everyone, regardless of the gender of the athletes involved.

Why would dudes watch a sport that is composed of players that could be beaten by a solid boys High School team instead of men's professional basketball?

 

[soylentgreen]

It is strange that you agree with the ladies here that treating women as sex objects instead of professional athletes is Okay.

You never even come close to proving any of your idiotic accusations or claims... LOL

Where exactly did I say or even imply as such?

The only claim I have made is that those who organise sporting events as heads of their sport are still a majority of men. Sports has traditionally been seen as a man's thing.

Women are still at the glass ceiling stage of professional sports. Women's basketball has yet to catch the attention of sport viewers in america.

Just because to you is unfair that a woman can make a decision about a man without considering what the man wants as her priority motive, does not mean that women therefore are actually getting better or just as good pay in sports. It is something they still must fight for.

 

[antiquity]

Its easy to score cause you can't even hand check, they have the defensive 3 seconds in the key, if you barely touch someone its a foul, floppers everywhere. I sometimes miss the 80s when a clothesline out of the air wasn't even a flagrant foul.

I want to give reasons I don't care for basketball and the NBA in particular. One: the number of time outs including referees time out to review plays. Two: there use to be a rule for palming the ball...not any more. Three the length of commercial time. Use to be a time out was one minute now its about three minutes or more. I understand that TV pays part of the bill but...get real as all the time interrupts the flow of the game. Football is even worst as now they put commercials on a split screen while the game is going on.

 

[Bodi]

WNBA players want an equal share of the revenue that the NBA has... Their league loses money so that would mean that they do not get paid.

I don't think that they thought that one through.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

Her. Signing 'her'.

I hope not because he would score 200 points pretty easily.

OMG!! You're right!!!

I am guilty of misgendering. That's, like, 3 years minimum, isn't it?

 

[Rogue Valley]

A boys high school team would destroy an WNBA team... and there is nothing exciting about boys high school basketball.

Even considering the source, that is one of the most stupid claims I've ever seen here at DP.

 

[Bodi]

Bodi said:
A boys high school team would destroy an WNBA team... and there is nothing exciting about boys high school basketball.

Even considering the source, that is one of the most stupid claims I've ever seen here at DP.

You are a big fan of boys high school basketball??

 

[Lursa]

You are a big fan of boys high school basketball??

Does it make you uncomfortable to watch them? That's as reasonable as you hyperbolizing his comment.

 

[Rogue Valley]

You are a big fan of boys high school basketball??

You are a big fan of misogyny?

 

[Aristaeus]

Even considering the source, that is one of the most stupid claims I've ever seen here at DP.

I don't think it's stupid at all. The physical strength difference between males and females is real.

The only people I see who don't seem to grasp the degree of difference between males and females are those deluded people who think men who call themselves women should be allowed to compete in women's sport.