The Iranian people/Persians are smart enough to differentiate between the people and the action of their government. They hate their own theocratic government and tried to overthrow it. They would love to have a more western-style government as they had under Mossedeq before we overthrew him in 1954. We should treat them likewise. Iran could be a very powerful ally for the US.Regarding China, the US - and democracy - is much their bigger enemy than Russia. Russia is much more their 'enemy of their enemy'. The Chinese government is constantly telling its people the US is their enemy. Iran is more complicated - we've given them a lot of reason to hate the US government, but the Iranian people seem to like the US people a lot.
We would not wait to see where it landed before we launched a nuclear counter strike. It would be too late. Putin knows that would be a suicide mission. We have nuclear weapons in the gulf and the Med' that would obliterate Russia and he knows that. Israel, plus India, and Pakistan are all members of the nuclear club would not wait. Saudi might have nukes as well.It seems to me the most likely ways this ends are:
- Putin is overthrown
- Putin decided to have humiliation and withdraw, trying to extract whatever face-saving concessions he can form the west for doing so, a bit like Khrushchev's withdrawal from Cuba.
- Putin uses nuclear blackmail to try to force the west to accept concessions
- Nuclear catastrophe
I wrote a post earlier for discussion I didn't post asking, what if Putin launched one nuclear missile at an unpopulated area as a start to escalating nuclear blackmail? How would the west respond?
An ironic thing is that the US had allied so much and empowered so much the Islamic forces like those who took over Iran, that some in the US government thought we'd have no problem having them as an ally - and indeed, Reagan worked with them pretty well on some things.The Iranian people/Persians are smart enough to differentiate between the people and the action of their government. They hate their own theocratic government and tried to overthrow it. They would love to have a more western-style government as they had under Mossedeq before we overthrew him in 1954. We should treat them likewise. Iran could be a very powerful ally for the US.
Iran and China won't want to involve themselves in this. Too messy for their liking.Well...if he shuts off all the energy fuels he sends westward, I imagine that will cause a little concern, especially if China and Iran throw in their financial support. Or instead of shutting it off he can just jack up the prices.
Russia is virtually a 3rd world county in economic shambles."With pretty much the whole world against Putin, how is he going to get himself out of the mess he's created?"
He doesn't have to. Russia is the largest country on Earth with the most resources.
I don't know. Russia's got a powerful military machine and its turned on Ukraine right now.
It'd be the end of him. One way or another, the rest of the world would find a way to squash him like a cockroach.It seems to me the most likely ways this ends are:
- Putin is overthrown
- Putin decided to have humiliation and withdraw, trying to extract whatever face-saving concessions he can form the west for doing so, a bit like Khrushchev's withdrawal from Cuba.
- Putin uses nuclear blackmail to try to force the west to accept concessions
- Putin unleashes his military more powerfully and gets enough of a 'victory' in Ukraine to declare victory and withdraw, leaving the west to ask how long to continue the sanctions and what the goal is
- Nuclear catastrophe
#4 seems perhaps the most likely.
I wrote a post earlier for discussion I didn't post asking, what if Putin launched one nuclear missile at an unpopulated area as a start to escalating nuclear blackmail? How would the west respond?
And it's getting worse by the day now that they've been basically cut off from most foreign monetary reserves.Russia is virtually a 3rd world county in economic shambles.
It's mostly poorly trained conscripts with low morale. Their heart is not in this fight.
That powerful military machine is getting it's ass smeared by a country that is outmanned 2 to 1.
Putin had very little to gain and a lot to lose by invading Ukraine. This will be remembered as one of the worst foreign policy decisions, along with the US invading Iraq in 2003, as well as Vietnam.And it's getting worse by the day now that they've been basically cut off from most foreign monetary reserves.
He can stop any time he wants...and then all he has to do is raise energy prices on the EU...and the sanctions will magically disappear.Not only has he started a war but his own people are starting to seriously suffer and protest against him. Will he turn against his own people with military violence like Hitler did before his downfall?
They created the OSP to justify their beliefs when the USIC failed to support those beliefs.Bush/Cheney/Powell/Rice knew it was a lie from the start. They created the lies to start the war.
Team Bush didn't believe disinformation about Iraq, they created misinformation about Iraq - just as Putin created false flags about Ukraine attacking Russia.
they in fact DID believe disinformation AND they lied.
This **** right here by Laura Bush at the State of the Union, Ahmad Chalabi, was an Iranian agent who gained special access to Team Bush and filled their heads with shit about a cake walk.
He can stop any time he wants...and then all he has to do is raise energy prices on the EU...and the sanctions will magically disappear.
You have the cause and effect backwards. We chose Chalabi because he'd be our puppet and say the things we wanted him to say. Other parts of our government knew what a terrible figure he was and terrible plan it was to back him, and managed to sabotage the plan publicly ruining Chalabi's credibility, saving us from that disaster - but not the different disaster Rumsfeld caused.
Putin had very little to gain and a lot to lose by invading Ukraine. This will be remembered as one of the worst foreign policy decisions, along with the US invading Iraq in 2003, as well as Vietnam.And it's getting worse by the day now that they've been basically cut off from most foreign monetary reserves.
When the facts don't support your decisions you make up your own facts. This is one of the reasons that I was very vocal in my opposition to the 2003 Iraq war. It was fairly obvious from the start it would a disaster because I get my news from the BBC and other sources that weren't being spoon-fed by the US government. This is one of the reasons that I learned some Arabic so I could listen to the news sources from the middle east.They created the OSP to justify their beliefs when the USIC failed to support those beliefs.
I don't.
But I am uninterested in re-hashing it at the moment.
Sure is a fancy strawman you built for yourself.Ya, some guy named Chalabi showed up and totally turned around US policy by fooling all of our top government.
Quite a guy.
Oh...don't get triggered by his talk about nukes. That won't happen. That's just his way of doing what N. Korea does when they fire off a missile.Have you let Putin know about your plan?
I like you idea much better than Putin's idea of flinging nukes
Please let Putin know so Putin can stop talking about starting nuclear war.
Sure is a fancy strawman you built for yourself.
Not only has he started a war but his own people are starting to seriously suffer and protest against him. Will he turn against his own people with military violence like Hitler did before his downfall?
Putin doesn’t have the level of control over the Russian military that Hitler did, his. If Putin were crazy enough to try to control the civilian populace with military force, it would be disastrous for all.
So with million in harm's way tonight you are worried about gas prices? We can live without his bloody oil.Well...if he shuts off all the energy fuels he sends westward, I imagine that will cause a little concern, especially if China and Iran throw in their financial support. Or instead of shutting it off he can just jack up the prices.
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