Wis. governor offers a way around ObamaCare problems

[sangha]

Ummm...

All insurance companies must offer plans that comply with Obamacare's rules.

No insurer is required to offer any plans on the exchange

 

[calamity]

This will never be allowed by the Obama administration because:

1. It's a Republican idea.

2. Even though the Democrats have proposed something similar...this is proposed by a Republican.

3. Did I mention...Republicans?

I see no problem with this proposal.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Ummm...

All insurance companies must offer plans that comply with Obamacare's rules. Nothing will be undercut. Furthermore, Walker's idea doesn't "offer" subsidies on anything. The fed is the one giving the subsidies.

Seriously, dude...did you even read the OP's article?

I'm not a dude. To respond to your post, Walker's plan would use subsidies without guarantee of adequate coverage. Hardly surprising to see such a proposal from him. He's courting the moneyed group.

"While Gruber supports that proposal, he doesn't think much of Walker's other request of the Obama administration, which would allow consumers to use ACA subsidies to purchase any health insurance plan offered in Wisconsin. We agree with Gruber: Health insurance plans purchased through the ACA should meet the minimum standards set up by the act. Allowing consumers to buy any plan undercuts the goal of adequate health insurance for all Americans and a sustainable market in which all consumers participate."

Read more from Journal Sentinel: On, Wisconsin - Gov. Scott Walker offers sound proposal on health care

 

[Mycroft]

I'm not a dude. To respond to your post, Walker's plan would use subsidies without guarantee of adequate coverage. Hardly surprising to see such a proposal from him. He's courting the moneyed group.

"While Gruber supports that proposal, he doesn't think much of Walker's other request of the Obama administration, which would allow consumers to use ACA subsidies to purchase any health insurance plan offered in Wisconsin. We agree with Gruber: Health insurance plans purchased through the ACA should meet the minimum standards set up by the act. Allowing consumers to buy any plan undercuts the goal of adequate health insurance for all Americans and a sustainable market in which all consumers participate."

Read more from Journal Sentinel: On, Wisconsin - Gov. Scott Walker offers sound proposal on health care

Both you and the person quoted in the article you linked don't really understand Obamacare.

The proposed ObamaCare health insurance rules and regulations are in. The new ObamaCare health insurance rules dictate the minimum standards of all health insurance plans sold off and on the exchange. The rules proposed November 20th 2012 aren't technically "new", but are provisions contained within the bill in a simplified cohesive form.

The new health insurance rules will help states to make decisions regarding their exchanges and will help health insurance companies understand how to structure their plans. ObamaCare's new rules on health insurance also help consumers consumers to understand and compare health plans and employers to promote and encourage wellness.

ObamaCare Health Insurance Rules, Regulations and Standards

btw, I call EVERYONE dude...I don't discriminate when it comes to sex.

 

[Mycroft]

No insurer is required to offer any plans on the exchange

I didn't say nor imply that they were.

But every insurance company that offers a plan...whether on or off any exchange...must comply with the minimum standards set by the rules of Obamacare.

 

[VanceMack]

I realize this will never fly because people are so heavily invested in the fed taking care of all their needs, but this isnt a BAD idea with the modification that ALL social spending should revert back to the states, that fed taxes should be reduced, and the state should be tasked to resolve their tax and spending needs individually. Of course...that shines a bright spotlight onto what is ACTUALLY being spent and it would be significantly harder to push excess spending on future generations that way...but still...it IS the best and right thing to do.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Both you and the person quoted in the article you linked don't really understand Obamacare.

How so?

 

[Mycroft]

From the article...


What is an exchange?


Am I to understand that if Fox News doesn't call it an exchange then you literally don't know it's an exchange? Granted it's only going to be for the poor and "uninsured".

Ummm...there is nothing in the two quotes you gave that says anything about Walker wanting to set up an exchange. In fact, the first quote you gave...from the article...specifically says that Walker wants his citizens to be able to "sidestep" the federal exchange. As in, getting their federal subsidy WITHOUT going through any exchange.

Doesn't sound like he want to set one up, now, does it?

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

I didn't say nor imply that they were.

But every insurance company that offers a plan...whether on or off any exchange...must comply with the minimum standards set by the rules of Obamacare.

Walker requests was that they don't have to comply with the minimum standard.

 

[Mycroft]

Walker requests was that they don't have to comply with the minimum standard.

Perhaps you need to give me a link with Walker's request asking that they don't have to comply with minimum standards. The one link you did give shows only that the writer doesn't understand Obamacare rules.

 

[Mycroft]

How so?

sigh...

I gave you a link to the Obamacare rules, didn't I? Did you read them? It says that every insurance plan sold...on or off the exchange...must comply with the Obamacare minimum standards. Therefore, no plans sold in WI can be "inadequate"...as you and the writer think they can be.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Perhaps you need to give me a link with Walker's request asking that they don't have to comply with minimum standards. The one link you did give shows only that the writer doesn't understand Obamacare rules.

You haven't explained how the writer doesn't understand the rules so I'll wait. In the meantime, here in MA we can get coverage directly through private insurers only no subsidies will apply and with good reason.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

sigh...

I gave you a link to the Obamacare rules, didn't I? Did you read them? It says that every insurance plan sold...on or off the exchange...must comply with the Obamacare minimum standards. Therefore, no plans sold in WI can be "inadequate"...as you and the writer think they can be.

I also gave you a link in which Walker requested the private insurers would not have to follow the same rules laid out by the ACA in order to qualify for a subsidy.

 

[Mycroft]

I also gave you a link in which Walker requested the private insurers would not have to follow the same rules laid out by the ACA in order to qualify for a subsidy.

Yes...and what rules did he not want to have to follow? I'll tell you: The rule that says that subsidies can only be received by going through the exchange. He didn't ask that the rule about minimum standards for insurance policies be changed or that WI insurance companies do not have to follow them.

If you think he did, then you are going to have to show me where he said that.

 

[Mycroft]

You haven't explained how the writer doesn't understand the rules so I'll wait. In the meantime, here in MA we can get coverage directly through private insurers only no subsidies will apply and with good reason.

I did explain...with links. Go back and re-read what I've posted...and try to understand the words I used.

Okay?

In the meantime...sucks to live in MA, I guess, since citizens of many other States can get subsidies through private insurers. That's Obama's doing, by the way. I know he had a good reason for setting that process up, but perhaps you disagree with him.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

I did explain...with links. Go back and re-read what I've posted...and try to understand the words I used.

Okay?

In the meantime...sucks to live in MA, I guess, since citizens of many other States can get subsidies through private insurers. That's Obama's doing, by the way. I know he had a good reason for setting that process up, but perhaps you disagree with him.

You can only get subsidies if you follow the rules insurance companies have to follow through ACA. They are all private companies on the exchange btw. Again, the difference between Obama's plan and Walker's is that Walker wants to give the subsidies to the insurers without having to follow the rules set up by the federal government. The reason why the rules are in place by the federal government is so we benefit economically. It's not put into place as a free for all for private insurers. In many ways, this reminds me of the plan the Republicans fought for when they privatized Medicare even more and ended up costing us economically on a country basis and individual basis. It's clear to see where their interest lie.

 

[Mycroft]

You can only get subsidies if you follow the rules insurance companies have to follow through ACA. They are all private companies on the exchange btw. Again, the difference between Obama's plan and Walker's is that Walker wants to give the subsidies to the insurers without having to follow the rules set up by the federal government. The reason why the rules are in place by the federal government is so we benefit economically. It's not put into place as a free for all for private insurers. In many ways, this reminds me of the plan the Republicans fought for when they privatized Medicare even more and ended up costing us economically on a country basis and individual basis. It's clear to see where their interest lie.

Actually, the federal government HAS set up rules that allow private insurers to get the subsidy payments without the customer needing to go through an exchange. That is one of the things Walker is asking for in WI. Oh, and he needs the Obamacare people to sign off on it. He already has support from his State legislature...including many Democrats.

In any event, it wouldn't be a "free for all" for anyone. It would only give more options for the consumer than having to go only through the crappy federal exchange. The consumers who qualify for a subsidy would qualify no matter how they applied. That doesn't change.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Actually, the federal government HAS set up rules that allow private insurers to get the subsidy payments without the customer needing to go through an exchange. That is one of the things Walker is asking for in WI. Oh, and he needs the Obamacare people to sign off on it. He already has support from his State legislature...including many Democrats.

In any event, it wouldn't be a "free for all" for anyone. It would only give more options for the consumer than having to go only through the crappy federal exchange. The consumers who qualify for a subsidy would qualify no matter how they applied. That doesn't change.

Your argument is contradictory in nature. On one hand you are saying it is legal for people to buy private insurance directly from the insurer and receive subsidies, and then you are saying this is what Walker is asking but can't receive because of (I'm not sure). Show me a state where insurance can be sold off the Marketplace and be subsidized first, then explain why other states can do this but not Walker's state. TIA

 

[Mycroft]

Your argument is contradictory in nature. On one hand you are saying it is legal for people to buy private insurance directly from the insurer and receive subsidies, and then you are saying this is what Walker is asking but can't receive because of (I'm not sure). Show me a state where insurance can be sold off the Marketplace and be subsidized first, then explain why other states can do this but not Walker's state. TIA

You really should read a thread before you start posting. Then I won't have to repeat myself.

From the link in my OP:

He is floating a proposal that would still channel federal subsidies to Wisconsin’s poor and uninsured, but his plan would allow them to purchase coverage directly from the insurer and sidestep the on-line “exchange” created by the Affordable Care Act.

His idea is getting support, even in the bitterly divided Wisconsin state house. Six Democrats crossed party lines and backed his proposal in the assembly, sending it over to the Senate with a healthy majority.

Still, before it goes into effect, Walker’s idea would need the blessing of the Obama administration.

That means he has to get approval from the Obama administration before his state can go ahead with his proposal.

In regards to states where policies CAN be sold outside the exchange, I gave a link for that in another post:

A new private health insurance marketplace is allowing Americans who qualify for Obamacare subsidies to bypass Healthcare.gov to enroll in health insurance plans while the government's website is going through numerous fixes. The workaround by GoHealth.com is reportedly the first functional non-government site that enables Americans to enroll in Obamacare plans.
According to the company, it "confirmed a Web-Broker Entity agreement with the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) and Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS)" in August, "allowing the company to instantly quote rates, calculate tax credits and subsidies and enroll consumers in health plans created by the new health reform law."

~

Last week, CMS officials indicated more private markets may be functional soon, allowing increasing numbers of people to potentially enroll in various health insurance programs.

Now...the reason this isn't happening in all states is that all states haven't made agreements with the Obama administration. That is what Walker wants to get done.

Really...no matter what your anti-Republican bias makes you think, this isn't some dastardly Republican plot to undermine Obamacare. It is simply Walker trying to help the citizens of his state...using procedures already put into place by the Obama administration.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

You really should read a thread before you start posting. Then I won't have to repeat myself.

From the link in my OP:



That means he has to get approval from the Obama administration before his state can go ahead with his proposal.

In regards to states where policies CAN be sold outside the exchange, I gave a link for that in another post:



Now...the reason this isn't happening in all states is that all states haven't made agreements with the Obama administration. That is what Walker wants to get done.

Really...no matter what your anti-Republican bias makes you think, this isn't some dastardly Republican plot to undermine Obamacare. It is simply Walker trying to help the citizens of his state...using procedures already put into place by the Obama administration.

My point has nothing to do with any plot. It has to do with who Walker is advocating for which is the private insurers.

"The Walker administration actually made two requests to Kathleen Sebelius, President Barack Obama's secretary of Health and Human Services. Both would allow consumers to receive federal subsidies under the health care law without going through the online markets known as exchanges, which offer private health plans but only those that have met certain minimum standards.

Two weeks ago, Walker requested that consumers be allowed to use the federal subsidies to buy any health plan offered in Wisconsin. That request, which would represent a substantial change of policy for the Affordable Care Act, is unlikely to win approval from the Obama administration."



Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/news/health...nges-b99156395z1-234418351.html#ixzz2nU20vTsT

 

[Mycroft]

My point has nothing to do with any plot. It has to do with who Walker is advocating for which is the private insurers.

"The Walker administration actually made two requests to Kathleen Sebelius, President Barack Obama's secretary of Health and Human Services. Both would allow consumers to receive federal subsidies under the health care law without going through the online markets known as exchanges, which offer private health plans but only those that have met certain minimum standards.

Two weeks ago, Walker requested that consumers be allowed to use the federal subsidies to buy any health plan offered in Wisconsin. That request, which would represent a substantial change of policy for the Affordable Care Act, is unlikely to win approval from the Obama administration."



Read more from Journal Sentinel: http://www.jsonline.com/news/health...nges-b99156395z1-234418351.html#ixzz2nU20vTsT

sigh...

As I've already explained...with a link...ALL insurance policies offered by ANY insurance company in ANY state MUST meet the minimum standards set forth in Obamacare.

Walker isn't helping insurance companies because they already must abide by Obamacare in regard to the policies they offer. Walker IS helping his citizens by trying to allow them to bypass that trainwreck called healthcare.org and by trying to allow them more choice who they get their policy from if they qualify for a subsidy.

While I have my misgivings about his proposal, which I've talked about in another post in this thread, I can't fault him for his motivation. He simply wants to do right by his state's citizens.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

sigh...

As I've already explained...with a link...ALL insurance policies offered by ANY insurance company in ANY state MUST meet the minimum standards set forth in Obamacare.

Walker isn't helping insurance companies because they already must abide by Obamacare in regard to the policies they offer. Walker IS helping his citizens by trying to allow them to bypass that trainwreck called healthcare.org and by trying to allow them more choice who they get their policy from if they qualify for a subsidy.

While I have my misgivings about his proposal, which I've talked about in another post in this thread, I can't fault him for his motivation. He simply wants to do right by his state's citizens.

If he wants to do right by these citizens, why would he allow any standard? It's the any Obama's admin. has issue with and not so much these people not receiving insurance. Just follow the requirements. It's the fiscally responsible thing to do.

 

[Mycroft]

If he wants to do right by these citizens, why would he allow any standard? It's the any Obama's admin. has issue with and not so much these people not receiving insurance. Just follow the requirements. It's the fiscally responsible thing to do.

Like I said, he wants his citizens to have more choices than the trainwreck website the Obama administration created...not change any minimum standards for insurance policies that are being sold.

I see you still don't understand this issue. Walker IS following the requirements in regard to what kinds of policies can be offered...in fact, I haven't seen him say anything about changing those minimum standards. What he is asking is that Obama broaden who is allowed to deal with any subsidies that consumers might qualify for. Obama has already broadened those rules some...he is allowing "selected" companies to deal with the subsidy issue outside of the exchange. Walker is asking that ANY insurance company in WI be allowed to do the same.

Heck, if Obama were smart...and if the government were capable of doing it without totally borking security...he should open that same process to all insurance companies nationwide. I don't see that happening, though, because Obama isn't known for allowing any choice...only choice that he wants the people to have.

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Like I said, he wants his citizens to have more choices than the trainwreck website the Obama administration created...not change any minimum standards for insurance policies that are being sold.

I see you still don't understand this issue. Walker IS following the requirements in regard to what kinds of policies can be offered...in fact, I haven't seen him say anything about changing those minimum standards. What he is asking is that Obama broaden who is allowed to deal with any subsidies that consumers might qualify for. Obama has already broadened those rules some...he is allowing "selected" companies to deal with the subsidy issue outside of the exchange. Walker is asking that ANY insurance company in WI be allowed to do the same.

Heck, if Obama were smart...and if the government were capable of doing it without totally borking security...he should open that same process to all insurance companies nationwide. I don't see that happening, though, because Obama isn't known for allowing any choice...only choice that he wants the people to have.

How can you get federal subsides without getting them at the source, in other words the healthcare.gov website operating as the federal exchange?

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Like I said, he wants his citizens to have more choices than the trainwreck website the Obama administration created...not change any minimum standards for insurance policies that are being sold.

I see you still don't understand this issue. Walker IS following the requirements in regard to what kinds of policies can be offered...in fact, I haven't seen him say anything about changing those minimum standards. What he is asking is that Obama broaden who is allowed to deal with any subsidies that consumers might qualify for. Obama has already broadened those rules some...he is allowing "selected" companies to deal with the subsidy issue outside of the exchange. Walker is asking that ANY insurance company in WI be allowed to do the same.

Heck, if Obama were smart...and if the government were capable of doing it without totally borking security...he should open that same process to all insurance companies nationwide. I don't see that happening, though, because Obama isn't known for allowing any choice...only choice that he wants the people to have.

From the article-
"The Walker administration actually made two requests to Kathleen Sebelius, President Barack Obama's secretary of Health and Human Services. Both would allow consumers to receive federal subsidies under the health care law without going through the online markets known as exchanges"

We know one is with the federal requirements. What do you think is the other? TIA