Wind generation output tops 15,000 MW in ERCOT region

[natsb]

66% of their electricity bills are taxes, tariffs, and fees imposed by the government - very little of which is routed to support the alternative energy industry. The actual cost of production and delivery of electricity from renewable sources isn't that high.

Okay, that got a snicker out of me. The Denmark Government is the sole owner of the Denmark power company. The Government subsidizes, which they do heavily, the windmills for the power company, then places a tax on electricity to offset those subsidies. Sure, this incestuous relationship allows the Government to proclaim cheap renewable energy, but they are not the ones actually paying the bill, are they?

Everything can appear affordable when your spending other people's money.

 

[Napoleon]

Right! That's why they're saying it costs too much.

Your own source substantiated its claim by linking to another article that says bills are high because of taxes, tariffs, and fees not because of costs associated with production and distribution of alternative energy. Maybe you should read your sources more thoroughly next time.

 

[jonny5]

There is a real viable solution already in the planning stages.
The only government involvement would be streamlining the home solar requirements,
and perhaps encouraging power grid improvements.
As for the energy, surplus wind and solar can be stored as man made hydrocarbon fuels,
that are carbon neutral, and are chemically identical to fossil fuels.
(they will be carbon neutral, because the carbon to build the molecules will come from atmospheric CO2.)
The current technology will be cost competitive with fossil oil, when the oil price gets about $90 a barrel.

Nuclear is already far more competitive, because it produces more power at a lower production cost. Wind is probably fine for remote or low power usage, but its pointless for wide area power.

 

[longview]

Nuclear is already far more competitive, because it produces more power at a lower production cost. Wind is probably fine for remote or low power usage, but its pointless for wide area power.

The source of the energy for the portable fuel is important only in that it is sustainable.
Nuclear is great for electricity, I think it could be improved by researching and standardizing the plant designs.
If a company chooses the "off the shelve" design, the regulatory steps would be less.
I could even see small rail car size reactors, providing steam for coal plants.
(Almost all coal plants have ether rail or barge access.)

 

[jonny5]

The source of the energy for the portable fuel is important only in that it is sustainable.
Nuclear is great for electricity, I think it could be improved by researching and standardizing the plant designs.
If a company chooses the "off the shelve" design, the regulatory steps would be less.
I could even see small rail car size reactors, providing steam for coal plants.
(Almost all coal plants have ether rail or barge access.)

Sustainability is not the only important thing. Cost, efficiency, availability are all important.

 

[longview]

Sustainability is not the only important thing. Cost, efficiency, availability are all important.

Long term, sustainability is very important, short term not so much.
I actually think we now have sustainability beaten, the challenge is how store
energy densely enough to fly jets and run ships.

 

[blackjack50]

Yeah, birds would disagree.

Will Wind Turbines Ever Be Safe For Birds? | Audubon

Windfarms kill 10-20 times more than previously thought | Save the Eagles International

I guess you can't keep everyone happy? Save the planet...kill the birds.


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[countryboy]

I guess you can't keep everyone happy? Save the planet...kill the birds.


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Let's not get carried away. Windmills are NOT going to save the planet. :roll:

Birds and bats are essential components of the ecosystem. Who's to say we aren't destroying the planet by causing their extinction?

 

[blackjack50]

Let's not get carried away. Windmills are NOT going to save the planet. :roll:

Birds and bats are essential components of the ecosystem. Who's to say we aren't destroying the planet by causing their extinction?

Was being very sarcastic. I guess I should have specified. Windmills are lauded as excellent power generators. They are loved by the green movement. But obvious not by bird lovers.

Basically pointing out that even the green movement can't keep ecolovers happy.


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[apdst]

Your own source substantiated its claim by linking to another article that says bills are high because of taxes, tariffs, and fees not because of costs associated with production and distribution of alternative energy. Maybe you should read your sources more thoroughly next time.

The fact is, if wind turbines paid for themselves, the government wouldn't have to subsidize them.

 

[Napoleon]

The fact is, if wind turbines paid for themselves, the government wouldn't have to subsidize them.

Weak sauce. Every branch of the energy industry receives subsidies and tax breaks.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Weak sauce. Every branch of the energy industry receives subsidies and tax breaks.

If you say so.

Do you know the difference between a tax break and subsidy?

Does the BPA get subsidies for their hydro-power?

 

[Napoleon]

If you say so.

Do you know the difference between a tax break and subsidy?

Does the BPA get subsidies for their hydro-power?

Yes, I do, which is I mentioned them separately. BPA is a Federal agency that rolls up under the Department of Energy so, yeah I imagine the government does pay production costs since it owns it.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Yes, I do, which is I mentioned them separately. BPA is a Federal agency that rolls up under the Department of Energy so, yeah I imagine the government does pay production costs since it owns it.

You imagine... but don't know...

At least you admit it.

They have been subsidized for wind power, which is proving to be a disaster over here. Hydro is so much cheaper, and there isn't a large enough infrastructure to use the excess electricity now that they have been building wind farms.

 

[Napoleon]

You imagine... but don't know...

At least you admit it.

They have been subsidized for wind power, which is proving to be a disaster over here. Hydro is so much cheaper, and there isn't a large enough infrastructure to use the excess electricity now that they have been building wind farms.

Federal agency budgets aren't subsidies. The BPA is just a marketing agency under the Department of Energy that sells energy to public and private utilities. What they don't sell domestically they sell to Canada and all at cost because, as a public agency, they aren't allowed to profit.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Federal agency budgets aren't subsidies. The BPA is just a marketing agency under the Department of Energy that sells energy to private utilities.

Yes, they sell their electricity. Get paid for it. Does it matter that they are a federal agency?

 

[Napoleon]

Yes, they sell their electricity. Get paid for it. Does it matter that they are a federal agency?

Yes, because as a Federal agency they are not allowed to profit from those sales so they sell at cost. It also matters because Federal agency budgets to produce said energy aren't subsidies.

 

[apdst]

Weak sauce. Every branch of the energy industry receives subsidies and tax breaks.

The oil and gas can survive without subsidies. In The United States, at least oil and gas companies don't receive cash subsidies. The difference being, the green energy segment would collapse without cash subsidies from the government.

 

[Napoleon]

The oil and gas can survive without subsidies. In The United States, at least oil and gas companies don't receive cash subsidies. The difference being, the green energy segment would collapse without cash subsidies from the government.

New industry always requires startup capital. How affordable would producing energy with fossil fuels be for consumers if the industry stopped receiving massive tax breaks and incentives?

 

[Lord of Planar]

New industry always requires startup capital. How affordable would producing energy with fossil fuels be for consumers if the industry stopped receiving massive tax breaks and incentives?

That's why there is such a think as a tax lower than others. Called a "capital gains tax." Private investors often lose money making investments.

Are you suggesting the government be a Nanny?

 

[Napoleon]

That's why there is such a think as a tax lower than others. Called a "capital gains tax." Private investors often lose money making investments.

Are you suggesting the government be a Nanny?

I'm suggesting that the government fund the future instead of keeping the past on life support.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I'm suggesting that the government fund the future instead of keeping the past on life support.

I see you love using "Other People's Money" for places it isn't needed.

 

[Napoleon]

I see you love using "Other People's Money" for places it isn't needed.

A transition from fossil fuels is needed and it isn't "other people's money." Tax revenue belongs to the State and we can pay for it by ensuring that multi-billion dollar corporations pay their fair share in taxes.

 

[countryboy]

A transition from fossil fuels is needed and it isn't "other people's money." Tax revenue belongs to the State and we can pay for it by ensuring that multi-billion dollar corporations pay their fair share in taxes.

I have a feeling you're in for a very bad 8 years.

 

[Napoleon]

I have a feeling you're in for a very bad 8 years.

4 years.