Will the right wing blame game work this time?

[Fishking]

"Why Is Obama Expanding Surveillance Powers Right Before He Leaves Office?"
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/01/obama-expanding-nsa-powers/513041/

The author of that article doesn't understand the topic they are covering and why intel is compartmentalized.

"In response to hacking, Obama orders 35 Russian diplomats kicked out of US"
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Forei...-orders-35-Russian-diplomats-kicked-out-of-US

Not sure what the point of this article is. We all know the claimed reason for his motivation for taking US-Russian relations to new lows. But, cool, it's really working out for the people of Syria to kick this Cold War back up.

 

[Fishking]

Man are you actually reading your post?
I find it strange that Obama a weak ass president" could pass an executive order when he couldn't even get tryouts for electing a supreme court justice??

Umm...because he can just sign an EO and a SCOTUS appointment takes cooperation from Congress. You can't really not understand that, right?

Obama did kick the Russian diplomats to the curb , Trump made friends with them how's that turning out?
The Russians did hack into the American election system this is fact not speculation FACT.
HOW THEY DID IT IS SPECULATION.eace

No, the Russians didn't hack the election system. This is not a fact. No votes were tampered with and every vote counted. As far as how things are working out with Trump trying to improve relations? Well, it's struggling because there are many vested interests in making sure we have really bad relations with them, the Military Industrial Complex being one of them, who in turn, own a lot of Congressmen (McCain).

 

[Fishking]

Overlooking mistake after mistake your political party makes just proves what a good party line /yes man you are ,so eyes front ask no questions, unless it's not your political party just keep on track ,stay the course.
Not cool bro unless you like being a puppet and having your so called party leaders manipulate the strings.
Sorry not my style.eace

Which mistakes are you talking about? Just making a vague accusation doesn't really mean anything. So how about some examples, be specific. As far as being a puppet, Trump is a very bad President but one thing he isn't is a puppet.

 

[JamesBY]

And a bi-partisan bill in Congress is passing, which will severely punish the Russians with more sanctions for interfering in the elections.

The far right and the Putin lovers are going to be crushed.

 

[Mycroft]

I'll take these one at a time

As will I.

The GOP party did nominate Trump did they not?
This phrase has been used on this forum "Obama was a Democrat" I submit to you "Trump is a Republican".

The Republican Party...thanks to its base...nominated Trump. Against the wishes of the GOP leadership...the Elites. That Republican base also ELECTED Trump as President...again, against the wishes of the GOP leadership. Those Elites did everything they could to prevent Trump's nomination and everything they could to prevent his election. Now...they are doing everything they can to prevent the agenda that got him elected.

Don't you ever ask yourself...why?

There are questions about these investigations like these, Why did Flynn lie to the Vice president of the United States under oath? or this,
Why did Sessions recuse himself from an investigation? Why was the director of the FBI fired in mid- investigation?

These investigations are a witch hunt. Plain and simple. They are attempts by the left and the GOP Elites to find some way to make Trump's Presidency illegitimate.

Why hire two members that have no political experience one an ex CEO of Exxon the other an ex lawyer for Goldman sacks , I mean is this the people's representatives or a business corporation??

Trump doesn't need politicians. He needs people who can do their jobs. He chose well.

Perhaps it is the GOP Congress who is now thinking Trump is not living up to his words or actions.

The only care they have is in obstructing Trump's words and actions.

The Democrats never said they would repeal and replace Obamacare Trump and the Republicans said that.

Correct. However, they know Obamacare is failing, but they still refuse to do anything about it...except to try pinning the blame on the Republicans. If they actually cared about the people they would try to fix their mess. They don't and they won't.

Perhaps but considering some of the Muslim terrorist on 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia I wouldn't be selling them weapons.
FYI I never agreed with giving weapons to anybody but Israel a country that is at war with Muslim terrorist , Who are we at war with again???eace

The overriding issue in the Middle East isn't Saudi Arabia. It's ISIS and terrorism. Everyone...even the Saudis and the Russians...care more about that than historical issues. Would you rather Trump just leave the whole region to fend for themselves? If they fall to the terrorists, the people of the region will suffer immensely and those terrorists will spread...eventually to our country. We are at War with Terror and that's who Trump is fighting.

 

[Mycroft]

And a bi-partisan bill in Congress is passing, which will severely punish the Russians with more sanctions for interfering in the elections.

The far right and the Putin lovers are going to be crushed.

Only if Trump signs it.

 

[MTAtech]

Only if Trump signs it.

It looks like the margin in Congress will be above what would be needed to override a veto.

 

[MTAtech]

No, the Russians didn't hack the election system. This is not a fact. No votes were tampered with and every vote counted. As far as how things are working out with Trump trying to improve relations? Well, it's struggling because there are many vested interests in making sure we have really bad relations with them, the Military Industrial Complex being one of them, who in turn, own a lot of Congressmen (McCain).

If you frame the importance of Russian hacking to only trying to change votes, you are missing the point -- I think willfully.

Russia used thousands of bots to influence public opinion that likely effected the outcome

and they also tried getting into state systems:
Russia hacked voting systems in 39 states before the 2016 presidential election

 

[Fishking]

If you frame the importance of Russian hacking to only trying to change votes, you are missing the point -- I think willfully.

Russia used thousands of bots to influence public opinion that likely effected the outcome

and they also tried getting into state systems:
Russia hacked voting systems in 39 states before the 2016 presidential election

And the MSMs have peddled their influence to a much greater level than some supposed effects by bots. It's not even a close comparison. And yet still, bots are not a hack. The election wasn't hacked, no matter how much you want to torture what that term means. Americans voted for who they wanted to vote for.

 

[Mycroft]

It looks like the margin in Congress will be above what would be needed to override a veto.

Maybe. If they want to do that.

On the other hand, Trump very well could sign it. Gain some political points.

 

[MTAtech]

And the MSMs have peddled their influence to a much greater level than some supposed effects by bots. It's not even a close comparison. And yet still, bots are not a hack. The election wasn't hacked, no matter how much you want to torture what that term means. Americans voted for who they wanted to vote for.

 

[Fenton]

If the insurance exchanges didn't work it's probably because Marco Rubio sabotaged them....

The attack stems from two years of effort by Senator Marco Rubio and others in Congress to undermine a key financing mechanism in the law.

Mr. Rubio’s efforts against the so-called risk corridor provision of the health law have hardly risen to the forefront of the race for the Republican presidential nomination, but his plan limiting how much the government can spend to protect insurance companies against financial losses has shown the effectiveness of quiet legislative sabotage.

The risk corridors were intended to help some insurance companies if they ended up with too many new sick people on their rolls and too little cash from premiums to cover their medical bills in the first three years under the health law. But because of Mr. Rubio’s efforts, the administration says it will pay only 13 percent of what insurance companies were expecting to receive this year. The payments were supposed to help insurers cope with the risks they assumed when they decided to participate in the law’s new insurance....

Marco Rubio Quietly Undermines Affordable Care Act


How Marco Rubio is quietly killing Obamacare​

AND according to the GAO, Obama illegaly trasnfered billions from the Treasury to insurance companies in the exchanges.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.ocre...iverting-billions-to-insurance-companies/amp/

Wow, and they still bailed ? Who needs risk corridors transfering profits to struggling insurers when Obama was doing it covertly ?

 

[MAGAnificent]

Well you call me a partisan Democrat although I am an Independent and have proof that I have criticized both parties.


So from the top Right wing = Republican fact
Right wing = Conservative on iffy ground but still considered fact
All knowing , Have you or Trump or the Right wing taken Responsibility for any mistake ?
NO, then you must be all knowing at least you guys seem to think so???
Right ringer is just slang for saying what you are, all though all knowing is in question , thought you would catch that as much as you use sarcasm. loleace

I am not impressed with your claim to have criticized both sides. I have criticized both sides and harshly criticised Trump during the primaries. You still by your language show a heavy tilt towards the left wing.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Bold talk for a right ringer whose party submitted 2 pieces of **** and couldn't pass either of them with a majority vote in Government?eace

Sport....I am not a republican. And I have criticized the establishment morons in the GOP congress multiple times on these talkboards over their failure as of yet to pass a repeal or repeal and replace of obamacare despite the fact that they ran on repeal for 7 years. You really need to stop projecting and start listening. Otherwise you will continue to appear as a despondent left winger.

 

[Moot]

AND according to the GAO, Obama illegaly trasnfered billions from the Treasury to insurance companies in the exchanges.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.ocre...iverting-billions-to-insurance-companies/amp/

Wow, and they still bailed ? Who needs risk corridors transfering profits to struggling insurers when Obama was doing it covertly ?

The insurance companies bailed because Marco Rubio added an amendment in the 2014 budget bill that undermined the three year reinsurance program and risk corridor built into the ACA and created uncertainty in the market.

In the original statute, risk corridor payments were not required to net to zero, meaning that the federal government could experience an increase in revenues or an increase in costs under the program. However, in the 2015 and 2016 appropriations bills, Congress specified that payments under the risk corridor program made to insurers in 2015 could not exceed collections from that year, and that CMS cannot transfer funds from other accounts to pay for the risk corridors program. This made the risk corridors program revenue neutral –meaning that only contributions collected from insurers could be used to fund payments for the risk corridor program. In the event that claims exceeded funds collected in a given year, CMS paid out claims pro rata and carried over deficiencies to be paid in the following year before any other claims are paid in that year. If the three-year risk corridors program ends with outstanding claims, HHS has stated it will work with Congress to secure funding for outstanding risk corridors payments, subject to the availability of appropriations...."

Explaining Health Care Reform: Risk Adjustment, Reinsurance, and Risk Corridors | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation


Reinsurance is the subsidization by the government of insurers who find themselves covering customers with high health costs. Obamacare's reinsurance program ran only from 2014 through 2016, and the Republican-controlled Congress has barred the government from paying insurers the entire amount they are owed for another Obamacare cost-reduction program, known as risk corridors....'

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/02/aetn...est-problem-is-that-its-not-fully-funded.html​

Now because insurance companies are lining up to sue the federal government for the money they lost because of Rubio and the GOP...the GOP congress had to pass another reinsurance program to make up for the one they destroyed under Obamacare ....

The amendment to the bill adopted Thursday would create a subsidy for insurers that cover sick, expensive patients, and could help revive Republican lawmaking efforts to repeal and replace large parts of the Affordable Care Act. They also echo a key program under Obamacare, which like the GOP proposal uses subsidies to lower premiums.

Called the Federal Invisible Risk Sharing Program, the Republican proposal would give health insurers $15 billion over nine years to subsidize the care of high-cost patients. It’s similar, though less generous, than Obamacare’s three-year-long reinsurance program, which gave insurers $7.9 billion for 2014 and $7.8 billion for 2015, according to data from the Kaiser Family Foundation, and is intended to pay out $4 billion for 2016...."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-house-to-aid-gravely-ill-in-health-care-bill​

 

[Moot]

AND according to the GAO, Obama illegaly trasnfered billions from the Treasury to insurance companies in the exchanges.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.ocre...iverting-billions-to-insurance-companies/amp/

Wow, and they still bailed ? Who needs risk corridors transfering profits to struggling insurers when Obama was doing it covertly ?

That was the amendment that Rubio added to the 2014 budget bill which barred the CMS from reimbursing the insurance companies for insuring high risk/cost patients. But I think a Federal judge just nullified that cynical, vindictive, partisan bill....

"...Because it’s hamstrung to pay the full claims, Health and Human Services has paid out only 12.6% of all claims for 2014, and nothing so far for 2015 or 2016. Moda’s lawsuit claimed that it’s due $214 million. It argued that the government essentially promised that the money would be paid, and that promise can’t be nullified just because Congress decided to tamper with where the money came from.

Judge Thomas C. Wheeler of the U.S. Court of Federal Claims agreed with Moda on every point. “There is no genuine dispute that the Government is liable to Moda,” he ruled in a decision issued Thursday. “The Government made a promise in the risk corridor program that it has yet to fulfill.” He directed the government “to fulfill that promise. After all, to say to [Moda], 'The joke is on you. You shouldn't have trusted us,' is hardly worthy of our great Government.”...."

With billions at stake, a federal judge just nullified the GOP's most cynical attack on Obamacare - LA Times​

That was in February. In April, congress passed a reinsurance bill to reimburse the insurance companies losses that the original ACA reinsurance program would've covered....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-house-to-aid-gravely-ill-in-health-care-bill​

 

[presluc]

Umm...because he can just sign an EO and a SCOTUS appointment takes cooperation from Congress. You can't really not understand that, right?



No, the Russians didn't hack the election system. This is not a fact. No votes were tampered with and every vote counted. As far as how things are working out with Trump trying to improve relations? Well, it's struggling because there are many vested interests in making sure we have really bad relations with them, the Military Industrial Complex being one of them, who in turn, own a lot of Congressmen (McCain).

Never said votes were tampered with, that I do not know.
I said the Russians hacked into an American election system, are you going to deny this ?
Check the facts.
Question; WHY???
As for the uhh, "vested interest" who's "vested interest " are we talking about here America's or Trump's???eace

 

[presluc]

Which mistakes are you talking about? Just making a vague accusation doesn't really mean anything. So how about some examples, be specific. As far as being a puppet, Trump is a very bad President but one thing he isn't is a puppet.

Well I've been here before mistakes how about these.
I'm going to build a wall across Mexico and make Mexico pay for it. campaign
We're going to build a wall across Mexico and Congress "the American taxpayer" will pay for it.
Woops ! these don't sound alike mistake
I'm gonna bring jobs back to America all of America said that in Michigan campaign
I'm gonna put coal miners back to work not everybody on unemployment is a coal miner mistake.
As soon as I'm elected I'm gonna repeal Obamacare and give Americans a good affordable Healthcare plan campaign.
After failing to pass a "good affordable Healthcare plan" TWICE , this little ditty, "We'll let Obamacare die , "IT'S THE DEMOCRATS FAULT"
When a Republican president can get a bill passed with a majority of Republicans in Congress one might question the purity of the bill in short Mistake.
You sure you want mistakes pointed out to you it's quite a long list.for such a short time.eace

 

[presluc]

As will I.



The Republican Party...thanks to its base...nominated Trump. Against the wishes of the GOP leadership...the Elites. That Republican base also ELECTED Trump as President...again, against the wishes of the GOP leadership. Those Elites did everything they could to prevent Trump's nomination and everything they could to prevent his election. Now...they are doing everything they can to prevent the agenda that got him elected.

Don't you ever ask yourself...why?



These investigations are a witch hunt. Plain and simple. They are attempts by the left and the GOP Elites to find some way to make Trump's Presidency illegitimate.



Trump doesn't need politicians. He needs people who can do their jobs. He chose well.



The only care they have is in obstructing Trump's words and actions.



Correct. However, they know Obamacare is failing, but they still refuse to do anything about it...except to try pinning the blame on the Republicans. If they actually cared about the people they would try to fix their mess. They don't and they won't.



The overriding issue in the Middle East isn't Saudi Arabia. It's ISIS and terrorism. Everyone...even the Saudis and the Russians...care more about that than historical issues. Would you rather Trump just leave the whole region to fend for themselves? If they fall to the terrorists, the people of the region will suffer immensely and those terrorists will spread...eventually to our country. We are at War with Terror and that's who Trump is fighting.

As will I.

You say the Republican party nominated Trump against the wishes of the GOP LEADERSHIP THE ELITES
Question; Who voted these GOP LEADERSHIP ELITES IN OFFICE AND WHO'S KEEPING THEM IN LEADERSHIP??

UMM ,Where have I heard that phrase before , oh yeah Nixon when the Watergate scandal came down , Nixon kept saying this is a "witch hunt" nothing more I know how that turned out , do you? and that was before all this great technology.

What was the jobs of a CEO and a hack lawyer for Goldman Sachs I'm thinking either to increase profits for Exxon oil or to tell Goldman Sachs how to increase their profits One does not hire a construction worker to do accounting , One does not hire accountants to get America back on track You need somebody that knows America not a penthouse view or a lawyers swank apartment.

One does not need to work on obstructing Trump's words or actions , he's doing that all by himself.

First of all do you actually believe that I would give the Democrats a free pass on this I have posted the Democrats had time to work on fixing this why didn't they , Christ they upgrade their phones you can't just pass a bill and walk away ya gotta check on it from time to time.
Second Trump didn't say I will work with Democrats and together we can come up with a good affordable Health care plan .
Trump said quoting here "I will repeal Obama care and I will submit a good affordable healthcare plan".

You got me confused with a whole other body pal. I made no mention of puling out of the Middle East .
ON 9/11 it was the Taliban which a group from Saudi Arabia just happen to belong to.
Today it's ISIS can you guarantee that no Muslim groups in Saudi Arabia belong to ISIS??
One other thing I keep hearing about the Saudi's and the Russians even the Syrians .
Question where were they in Desert Storm, where were they in Afghanistan
At least Israel offered to fight in Desert Storm and America was receiving a lot of valuable information from Israel.
Israel has always been America's ally the one ally in the Mideast. that America could count on.eace

 

[presluc]

I am not impressed with your claim to have criticized both sides. I have criticized both sides and harshly criticised Trump during the primaries. You still by your language show a heavy tilt towards the left wing.

I have seen no post of you criticizing Trump or the Republicans on this thread.
Once there was a republican supporter who said Trump was a wanna be politician who would fail today he works for Trump.
As far as me showing favoritism for the Democrats or being bias to the Republicans show me.

After all every body keeps telling me how tough Trump , the Republican party and Republican supporters are.
So far I ain't impressed a few questions a little Criticism Trump whines and says" stop picking on me ".

Just like you and the rest of these so called political leaders of America.

You overlook the truth, anybody that questions or criticizes the Democrats no matter what their veiw or what they are they automatically become a hard line right ringer

If they question or criticize any Republican , no mater what their views or what they are they automatically become a hard line liberal

It's like the supporters of one party is stuck in Cement and the supporters of the other party are stuck in CONCRETE.

 

[Fishking]

Never said votes were tampered with, that I do not know.
I said the Russians hacked into an American election system, are you going to deny this ?
Check the facts.
Question; WHY???
As for the uhh, "vested interest" who's "vested interest " are we talking about here America's or Trump's???eace

Well, they didn't hack into any election machines and didn't change any votes. That means people voted for who they wanted to vote for. That's kinda how elections work. You don't get to cry about some random supposed bots or Russia Today or some other nonsense later. The effects of those things aren't even a drop in the bucket.

 

[Fishking]

Well I've been here before mistakes how about these.
I'm going to build a wall across Mexico and make Mexico pay for it. campaign
We're going to build a wall across Mexico and Congress "the American taxpayer" will pay for it.
Woops ! these don't sound alike mistake

An over-promise, yes, and a mistake to say such a thing. That doesn't rate very high on the list of mistakes, though, in real impact.

I'm gonna bring jobs back to America all of America said that in Michigan campaign
I'm gonna put coal miners back to work not everybody on unemployment is a coal miner mistake.

How are these mistakes? Seems like we have to find out what actually happens there. I mean, he has already effected some small changes there.

As soon as I'm elected I'm gonna repeal Obamacare and give Americans a good affordable Healthcare plan campaign.
After failing to pass a "good affordable Healthcare plan" TWICE , this little ditty, "We'll let Obamacare die , "IT'S THE DEMOCRATS FAULT"

Yes, another over-promise, though he is correct that Obamacare will collapse if left alone.

When a Republican president can get a bill passed with a majority of Republicans in Congress one might question the purity of the bill in short Mistake.
You sure you want mistakes pointed out to you it's quite a long list.for such a short time.eace

Hmmmm....remember when Obama said it would be simple to close GITMO and he'd do it in his first year? Yeah...so he wasn't able to end the human rights violation of indefinite detention w/o a trial, seems like a bigger mistake than the Trump ones you named. You could have brought up a better mistake by Trump, with his arms deal to Saudi Arabia, which is contributing to human rights violations in Yemen. Of course, if you did that then you'd have to call out Obama for the same as well.

Aside from that, I'd say that Trump not shutting his yapper and tweeting has been his biggest mistakes so far.

 

[presluc]

Sport....I am not a republican. And I have criticized the establishment morons in the GOP congress multiple times on these talkboards over their failure as of yet to pass a repeal or repeal and replace of obamacare despite the fact that they ran on repeal for 7 years. You really need to stop projecting and start listening. Otherwise you will continue to appear as a despondent left winger.

I am listening.
Just when did the conservatives and the Republican party part ways??
Just wandering you say you are not a Republican but the main base of the Republican party is the Conservatives is it not?.
So what are you, libertarian, Tea party both have ties to the Republican party.
I have yet to see you question or criticize Trump, he is a Republican is he not?
However although no Congressman spoke out against Trump if you listen real hard you can almost hear the Republicans of Congress saying "I'M DAMN SURE NOT TO VOTE TO PASS THIS PIECE OF TRASH" I like my job.eace

 

[presluc]

Well, they didn't hack into any election machines and didn't change any votes. That means people voted for who they wanted to vote for. That's kinda how elections work. You don't get to cry about some random supposed bots or Russia Today or some other nonsense later. The effects of those things aren't even a drop in the bucket.

That was not my question.
My question was , Did the Russians hack into an American election system? yes or no
You didn't answer my question, this ain't no Senate committee you can't dodge questions or take the 5th here, so answer the question or slink off someplace but that distraction crap wont work with me I've saw too much off it over the past 17 years.

If someone hacked your computer would it be considered a drop in the bucket , business as usual , keep moving, nothing to see here???eace

 

[presluc]

An over-promise, yes, and a mistake to say such a thing. That doesn't rate very high on the list of mistakes, though, in real impact.



How are these mistakes? Seems like we have to find out what actually happens there. I mean, he has already effected some small changes there.



Yes, another over-promise, though he is correct that Obamacare will collapse if left alone.



Hmmmm....remember when Obama said it would be simple to close GITMO and he'd do it in his first year? Yeah...so he wasn't able to end the human rights violation of indefinite detention w/o a trial, seems like a bigger mistake than the Trump ones you named. You could have brought up a better mistake by Trump, with his arms deal to Saudi Arabia, which is contributing to human rights violations in Yemen. Of course, if you did that then you'd have to call out Obama for the same as well.

Aside from that, I'd say that Trump not shutting his yapper and tweeting has been his biggest mistakes so far.

If I say I'm going to do something and don't do it that's not over promising that's a mistake.
Example if I tell my employee I going to come to work but I show up and don't work that's a mistake , If I say I'm going to pay the bills when they come due and don't pay them that's a mistake.

This is the President of America we are talking about are we not and you telling me he don't know what's happening ???
Funny he knew exactly what was going on in America during his campaign , made enough speeches about it.

So what happened he get amnesia or maybe had an accident or maybe like an armchair quarterback easy to criticize but can't pass or run or throw and never actually played football.

Obama couldn't get out of Git mo he's lucky if he could get out of the Rose Garden.

As far as human rights how's America doing today on that issue a lot of Jewish people are a bit unhappy , then you also have the African Americans they ain't too happy either.eace