Why You Should Respect Religion

[Stace]

Liberals forget that there wasn't always a friendly police officer a phone call away. The old times were horrible and lawless. In many cases the ONLY reason to act in an ethical manner was religious code.

Religion gave us a reason to act like human beings in a time when we were still animals. If you refuse to see that you are either:

1. An idiot.
2. In denial.
3. Rebelling against your parents.

And THIS is why I think certain things about you that can't be said outside of the basement. You seem to hold the belief that no liberal has religion, when in fact, you couldn't be further from the truth.

Though some of us have morals and can "act like human beings", without being idiots, in denial, or rebelling against our parents, without religion. Some of us can think for ourselves, rather than having a book, a deity, or even a minister telling us how we should live our lives.

 

[Apostle13]

How about to give people a reason to live a moral life in violent times? Why did anyone living in a tribe far from the rule of law not just rape all the women they wanted, killed anyone they liked, and take what they could by force?

Oh yeah... that whole religion thing. A man says to another man "don't kill your neighbor because I said so". The other man responds "why should I"?

A man says to another man "don't kill your neighbor". The other man responds "why should I?" The first man responds: "because it is the will of God, the king of kings, and he will be your judge in the afterlife".

Which is the more compelling argument?

Liberals forget that there wasn't always a friendly police officer a phone call away. The old times were horrible and lawless. In many cases the ONLY reason to act in an ethical manner was religious code.

Religion gave us a reason to act like human beings in a time when we were still animals. If you refuse to see that you are either:

1. An idiot.
2. In denial.
3. Rebelling against your parents.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Akhbar.

Seems you got issues... Just for the record human beings are still animals.
You should'nt generalize liberals either.

 

[FreeThinker]

Though some of us have morals and can "act like human beings", without being idiots, in denial, or rebelling against our parents, without religion. Some of us can think for ourselves, rather than having a book, a deity, or even a minister telling us how we should live our lives.

And the day you acknowledge that all those ethics and morals that you have today were all based on very old religions, maybe you can come to terms with your parents.

It is easier today to make ethical decisions than it was long ago because today we have hundreds of thousands of laws to enforce good behavior as well as a justice system. In the old days these things did not exist or were too weak to carry out enforcement.

Yes Stace, today you don't need religion to be a good person. BUT I would like to see you act with the same ethics and morals 1000 years ago in a lawless land, a land in which the only thing stopping a man from killing you was his belief in final judgement.

You spit on the very thing that helped build everything we are today.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

While that all seems a bit harsh...And well, I guess you think you got it all figured.
I will agree in part that religion is highly overrated and at least some are outright stupid. I typically always take a stand against religion. However, I do believe in God, in the biblical accordance. I see and advocate Him as being a personal God. I am neither weak-minded, poor, or in need of a crutch. Heaven is a real place, and believing not in hell won't make it any less hotter for you when you get there.
...And while I don't much respect religion, I do respect individual choice.

Got any evidence that Heaven is real? You made it a statement without prefacing it with a qualifications that this is merely a your personal belief.

And I always enjoy it when I'm told I'm off to Hell for not believing in the right way. Nothing pleases me more than voluntary substantiation of my posts by people who think they're objecting to what I say.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

How about to give people a reason to live a moral life in violent times? Why did anyone living in a tribe far from the rule of law not just rape all the women they wanted, killed anyone they liked, and take what they could by force?

Living a moral life requires brainwashing? That's a novel concept. How can it be moral when the rules are derived irrationally?

What times haven't been violent? So, are those people you describing live in a tribe, or were they living in total anarchy. Take your pick of one, and only one. Both is not possible.

Oh yeah... that whole religion thing. A man says to another man "don't kill your neighbor because I said so". The other man responds "why should I"?

Because out of self-defense the first neighbor will recruit all the other neighbors to punish the miscreant because, logically, if he gets away with it once, he'll do it again when it's his convenience. So, out of simple self-defense, people recognize that they cannot permit murderers to exist among them. This is simple common sense, and doesn't require religious mumbo-jumbo to justify.

A man says to another man "don't kill your neighbor". The other man responds "why should I?" The first man responds: "because it is the will of God, the king of kings, and he will be your judge in the afterlife".

See how much simpler life would have been if the hocus-pocus wasn't used? "Don't kill our neighbor because we'll be forced to kill you" has such an immediate and personal impact, whereas "Don't kill him because you won't go to heaven if you do" sounds like such a wimpy thing to do, besides which, it doesn't carry any weight.

Which is the more compelling argument?

Mine.

Obviously.

Liberals forget that there wasn't always a friendly police officer a phone call away. The old times were horrible and lawless. In many cases the ONLY reason to act in an ethical manner was religious code.

That's true. Liberals do have problems with the reality thing, since their premises are as logical as any other religion.

What's that got to do with me?

Religion gave us a reason to act like human beings in a time when we were still animals. If you refuse to see that you are either:

1. An idiot.
2. In denial.
3. Rebelling against your parents.

Then again, my refusal to see what you say most definitely means that I'm not wearing sunglasses under the blankets in the back of a closet in the basement at midnight on a moonless night far away from any city lights.

Nice personal attack, though. I take it your own religion accepts it's advocates proving their ignorance to the world? One heck of a novel recruiting technique, I must say.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Akhbar.

I wonder what you think "Akhbar" means? LOL

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

......Its time to play, "YOU DON'T KNOW JACK"....

Where you even aware that Judaism existed before Christianity? That the "variant" of the book is actually the Original and that the Christian's are the ones with the "variant" of the book? Do you know ANYTHING about Judaism?

I didn't think so.

Sure, I knew all that. So I was lazy discussing the origins of one gutter religion because I'd already talked about another and it was easier that way.

What's the diff? It's not like either one has anything to do with reality.

 

[FreeThinker]

Because out of self-defense the first neighbor will recruit all the other neighbors to punish the miscreant because, logically, if he gets away with it once, he'll do it again when it's his convenience. So, out of simple self-defense, people recognize that they cannot permit murderers to exist among them. This is simple common sense, and doesn't require religious mumbo-jumbo to justify.

See how much simpler life would have been if the hocus-pocus wasn't used? "Don't kill our neighbor because we'll be forced to kill you" has such an immediate and personal impact, whereas "Don't kill him because you won't go to heaven if you do" sounds like such a wimpy thing to do, besides which, it doesn't carry any weight.

How about this scenario: one neighbor goes to another and says "lets go kill bob and take his stuff". Who is going to stop them without a government?

Your logic relies totally upon there being ethical people to carry out justice against those that commit crimes. Sorry bud, the ratio of good men to thieves and villians in the old days was lacking.

Religion gives people a reason to act in an ethical manner in the absense of law.

Nice personal attack, though. I take it your own religion accepts it's advocates proving their ignorance to the world? One heck of a novel recruiting technique, I must say.

If you bothered to read the very first post in this thread you would have seen that I'm an atheist. Nice try though.

I wonder what you think "Akhbar" means? LOL

Something not too witty or original.

 

[FreeThinker]

Sure, I knew all that. So I was lazy discussing the origins of one gutter religion because I'd already talked about another and it was easier that way.

What's the diff? It's not like either one has anything to do with reality.

The difference is you are totally ignorant of the thing you are trying your hardest to attack.

 

[tecoyah]

And the day you acknowledge that all those ethics and morals that you have today were all based on very old religions, maybe you can come to terms with your parents.

It is easier today to make ethical decisions than it was long ago because today we have hundreds of thousands of laws to enforce good behavior as well as a justice system. In the old days these things did not exist or were too weak to carry out enforcement.

Yes Stace, today you don't need religion to be a good person. BUT I would like to see you act with the same ethics and morals 1000 years ago in a lawless land, a land in which the only thing stopping a man from killing you was his belief in final judgement.

You spit on the very thing that helped build everything we are today.

Reading this statement....I am compelled to ask a simple question. Here you seem to admit the scripture was written to control lawless behavior in mankind, pretty much saying it was written by people....to control people.

Where does the actual God come into play...?

 

[HU-210]

Your logic relies totally upon there being ethical people to carry out justice against those that commit crimes. Sorry bud, the ratio of good men to thieves and villians in the old days was lacking.

Religion gives people a reason to act in an ethical manner in the absense of law.

It's incomprehensible to me how you can try to debate, if you haven't even properly read on ethics. Oh, it's just philosophy, just use difficult words and everyone will believe you have something to say. Please. The argument you present here has been used in a most interesting manner my Marquis de Sade. I suggest reading his Justine (or the New Justine), or the philosophical extract thereof.

Mr U

 

[Stace]

And the day you acknowledge that all those ethics and morals that you have today were all based on very old religions, maybe you can come to terms with your parents.

Guess what? My family isn't religious at all. Nothing about the way I was raised had ANYTHING to do with religion. And I have no problem with my parents, or, more specifically, my mother, as my biological father hasn't been very much a part of my life since I was five.

It is easier today to make ethical decisions than it was long ago because today we have hundreds of thousands of laws to enforce good behavior as well as a justice system. In the old days these things did not exist or were too weak to carry out enforcement.

And some people are just naturally good people that have good ethical and moral codes regardless of all of that. I don't know why it's so hard for you to admit that not everyone needs or follows religion and that they can still be good people.

Yes Stace, today you don't need religion to be a good person. BUT I would like to see you act with the same ethics and morals 1000 years ago in a lawless land, a land in which the only thing stopping a man from killing you was his belief in final judgement.

Well, how do you expect to ever see that? Unless you have some sort of time machine you haven't been telling anyone about. But I HIGHLY doubt you can prove that EVERYONE back in the day had religion.

You spit on the very thing that helped build everything we are today.

I don't spit in the face of anything. I'm just trying to get you to understand that not everyone gives a hoot about religion, nor is it responsible for the moral and ethical codes of every person that has ever walked this earth.

 

[Thorgasm]

Exactly. It is just a tradition based on history. When I say the pledge or swear on the Bible it doesn't mean that I believe in Jesus or a god. It means I respect the traditions of the past.

Taking any references to god out of our government's traditions is just foolishly trying to erase history. Religion was a big part of what made America, America. It was the entire reason people came to the new world.

To deny that is to deny history.

How about "one nation, under slavery"? It's nice how "traditionalists" can cherry pick the traditions they want to protect. How about "one nation, oppressing women"? Or "one nation, ethnic cleansing"? You see religion is what gave the Puritans their rationale for killing those "pagan savages". Do you even know how long "under god" has been in the pledge?

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

How about this scenario: one neighbor goes to another and says "lets go kill bob and take his stuff". Who is going to stop them without a government?

What the hell does a "government" have to do with respecting religion?

Your logic relies totally upon there being ethical people to carry out justice against those that commit crimes. Sorry bud, the ratio of good men to thieves and villians in the old days was lacking.

No. My logic rests entirely on the known self-interest of individuals to join together for mutual defense against foes.

It's called "how human society evolved from that of 'pack' to 'civilization'".

Try learning some history.

Religion gives people a reason to act in an ethical manner in the absense of law.

Nice assetion. Too bad it doesn't have anything to do with reality. Perhaps you're so weak that you need to pretend you'll be punished when you die if you're not a nice boy when no one's looking, the rest of us, the normal ones, have conciences, empathy, and compassion that derive from our awareness of our own mortality that guide us in those little situations where the chance to do bad is so easy.

And no, while religion may be used to shape those, it's not necessary. Look at me.






If you bothered to read the very first post in this thread you would have seen that I'm an atheist. Nice try though.





Something not too witty or original.[/QUOTE]

 

[128shot]

God as you know it just don't exist.


Is it really that hard to figure out? look around. someone who needs consistant worship can't be brilliant enough to even think of "free will"

 

[kal-el]

Heaven is a real place, and believing not in hell won't make it any less hotter for you when you get there.

:rofl I suppose you have actual eye-witness accounts of these places? And according to your dead carpenter, you don't need to believe in him or God to go to heaven:

Matthew 19:16-19
Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only one who is good." "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." "Which ones?" The man inquired. Jesus replied, " Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself."

He doesn't mention that you must believe in him or for that matter, god, to enter the sky fortress.

 

[kal-el]

God as you know it just don't exist.

You're probably right. The god of the bible is depicted as having enormous ego problems, and has multiple temper tantrums, not to mention, he's a diety who uses threats and violence to get his way.

Is it really that hard to figure out?

Obviously for some.

look around. someone who needs consistant worship can't be brilliant enough to even think of "free will"

Yes, the bible god demands endless worship, and seems quite fond of male genitalia.:lol:

 

[128shot]

You're probably right. The god of the bible is depicted as having enormous ego problems, and has multiple temper tantrums, not to mention, he's a diety who uses threats and violence to get his way.



Obviously for some.



Yes, the bible god demands endless worship, and seems quite fond of male genitalia.:lol:

you sumed it up well, though, I'm agnostic, not a full blown athiest.

I think the Hindu's are on to something with their context of god.

 

[kal-el]

you sumed it up well, though, I'm agnostic, not a full blown athiest.

God as you know it just don't exist.

That to me, doesn't sound agnostic, rather atheist. Of course you're most likely referring to the bible god. I'd say if such an entity existed, mankind is screwed.

 

[128shot]

yes, I meant that it was their context of god, not of "A God" so to speak.

 

[kal-el]

yes, I meant that it was their context of god, not of "A God" so to speak.

Yes, it is possible that "a" god exists, outside of my realm of knowledge, but a sky ape who sprang out of nothingness to create the universe in 6 days, and needed to rest on the 7th, is not likely, as the bible god is portrayed as being omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent, in other words- self-contradictory. Right from the inception, Genesis, this god fellow is depicted as an imbecile, who doesn't know where the hell fallible humans are, or what they have done, and blames them for exersizing their free will, he claims that he is with Joseph, I believe, all the time, yet the wife of an Egyptian master was able to set him up, and send him to prison, Haha, I guess this god fellow had the day off!:lol:

 

[George_Washington]

Then again, why should I respect religion?

Focusing on Christianity for a moment, for the last few weeks I've had to asure my six year old daughter that she's not going to a awful place when she dies, that there's no Heaven to reward people that believe in God, and other such nonsense superstitious people pollute their kids' minds with.

Yes and I wonder what your daughter and other children would think when we tell them that they're going to die and not go anywhere, the wicked will never be punished for their crimes, and that there is nobody outside of Earth that loves them. I wonder if they will simply agree or if their reason might get the better of them and they will think otherwise.

 

[George_Washington]

He's not going away... I just heard recently he is starting it all over again. Something to the effect that he lied about his daughter. Turns out she is Christian and her mother as well. She was "not offended" (under God) as he stated in his initial complaint. Based on that he was struck down by the 9th District. So now he has assembled a coalition of atheistic type parents and filing a new motion.

Uh huh. Mr. moral atheist, who accuses Christians of lying, lies himself. Now isn't that interesting? The truth of that matter is that Mr. Newdow is very insecure in his beliefs and has inner emotional problems concerning his life and the life he had with his previous wife that have yet to be exposed.

I find it interesting that most atheists claim that Christians are hypocrites in that they're not very moral, when Mr. Newdow not only broke his marriage vows that he obviously never took seriously in that first place and then lied about his own flesh and blood. Can a man like that really be trusted?

I think not.

 

[hipsterdufus]

This is a bit off topic, but I just saw the god hates fags group down in sago protesting at the dead miners' memorial service.

If you don't know about these loons here's there website: www.godhatesfags.com

This religious group blames 9/11 , the miner's tragedy and a host of other items on homosexuals.

I have a hard time given losers like this the right to free speech, I must say.

This protest was pathetic, unwarranted and uncalled for.

 

[FreeThinker]

This is a bit off topic, but I just saw the god hates fags group down in sago protesting at the dead miners' memorial service.

If you don't know about these loons here's there website: www.godhatesfags.com

This religious group blames 9/11 , the miner's tragedy and a host of other items on homosexuals.

I have a hard time given losers like this the right to free speech, I must say.

This protest was pathetic, unwarranted and uncalled for.

My 2nd favorite thing after using obsolete words that no one has used for 50 years in the english language is to say things that I know everyone will agree with so that people like me more.

Hold on a sec, I'm going to go make a thread titled "mean people are jerks".

 

[FreeThinker]

Wow all you people are so angry for some reason.

All I said was that religion should be respected for its positive impact on humanity. It helped build our society. It gave us greater purpose when we had none.

I never said everyone has to believe in god to have ethics. I don't believe in any higher power and I would like to think I have good morals.

I just understand that the good aspects of religion have helped humanity a great deal in surviving through hard times.

I don't understand why some people feel the need to vilify religion.