Why we had to drop the A bombs on Japan

[vegas giants]

That doesn't really change anything. There is no documentation to support the claim the Japanese were intending to surrender in just a few more weeks of conventional bombings. Just a day prior to the strike on Hiroshima the Japanese High Command issued orders for the transfer of arms and equipment down south where the invasion was expected.

Indeed, the official reaction of the Japanese government to American calls for surrender was that they would ignore them.

The greatest military minds this country has ever known disagree with you

 

[Jredbaron96]

The greatest military minds this country has ever known disagree with you

The opinions of American generals after the war are irrelevant compared to the actions of Japanese commanders *during* the war.

If Japan was ready to surrender, why cannot you not provide documentation by the Japanese themselves?

 

[vegas giants]

The opinions of American generals after the war are irrelevant compared to the actions of Japanese commanders *during* the war.

If Japan was ready to surrender, why cannot you not provide documentation by the Japanese themselves?

I provided you the opinions of the greatest military minds this country has ever known.


You are free to have your own opinion.


I will go with theirs

 

[Jredbaron96]

I provided you the opinions of the greatest military minds this country has ever known.


You are free to have your own opinion.


I will go with theirs

If Japan was ready to surrender, why cannot you not provide documentation by the Japanese themselves? You claim that that the Japanese were on the verge of surrender, but there are not statements or indications by the Japanese that they were ready to surrender until after the bombs were dropped.

 

[vegas giants]

If Japan was ready to surrender, why cannot you not provide documentation by the Japanese themselves? You claim that that the Japanese were on the verge of surrender, but there are not statements or indications by the Japanese that they were ready to surrender until after the bombs were dropped.

Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, the tough and outspoken commander of the U.S. Third Fleet, which participated in the American offensive against the Japanese home islands in the final months of the war, publicly stated in 1946 that "the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment." The Japanese, he noted, had "put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before" the bomb was used.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Admiral William "Bull" Halsey, the tough and outspoken commander of the U.S. Third Fleet, which participated in the American offensive against the Japanese home islands in the final months of the war, publicly stated in 1946 that "the first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment." The Japanese, he noted, had "put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before" the bomb was used.

This is not a documentation or a record from the Japanese. This is a comment from an American who was uninvolved in Japan's internal discussions and endeavors.

Again, if Japan was ready to surrender, why cannot you not provide documentation by the Japanese themselves?

 

[vegas giants]

This is not a documentation or a record from the Japanese. This is a comment from an American who was uninvolved in Japan's internal discussions and endeavors.

Again, if Japan was ready to surrender, why cannot you not provide documentation by the Japanese themselves?

The 1946 United States Strategic Bombing Survey in Japan, whose members included Paul Nitze,[citation needed] concluded the atomic bombs had been unnecessary to win the war. They said:

There is little point in attempting precisely to impute Japan's unconditional surrender to any one of the numerous causes which jointly and cumulatively were responsible for Japan's disaster. The time lapse between military impotence and political acceptance of the inevitable might have been shorter had the political structure of Japan permitted a more rapid and decisive determination of national policies. Nevertheless, it seems clear that, even without the atomic bombing attacks, air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion.

Bаsеd on а dеtаilеd invеstigаtion of аll thе fаcts, аnd supportеd by thе tеstimony of thе surviving Jаpаnеsе lеаdеrs involvеd, it is thе Survеy's opinion thаt cеrtаinly prior to 31 Dеcеmbеr 1945, аnd in аll probаbility prior to 1 Novеmbеr 1945, Jаpаn would hаvе surrеndеrеd еvеn if thе аtomic bombs hаd not bееn droppеd, еvеn if Russiа hаd not еntеrеd thе wаr, аnd еvеn if no invаsion hаd bееn plаnnеd or contеmplаtеd.[88][89]

 

[Jredbaron96]

Bаsеd on а dеtаilеd invеstigаtion of аll thе fаcts, аnd supportеd by thе tеstimony of thе surviving Jаpаnеsе lеаdеrs involvеd, it is thе Survеy's opinion thаt cеrtаinly prior to 31 Dеcеmbеr 1945, аnd in аll probаbility prior to 1 Novеmbеr 1945, Jаpаn would hаvе surrеndеrеd еvеn if thе аtomic bombs hаd not bееn droppеd, еvеn if Russiа hаd not еntеrеd thе wаr, аnd еvеn if no invаsion hаd bееn plаnnеd or contеmplаtеd.[88][89]

By that point vastly more Japanese would have died than were killed in the atomic bombings.

 

[vegas giants]

By that point vastly more Japanese would have died than were killed in the atomic bombings.

Prove it

 

[Jredbaron96]

Prove it

By August 1945 the conventional bombing campaign of the USAAF was shifting targets towards Japan's rail and road infrastructure to cripple Japanese food production and supply. Japan itself barely avoided mass starvation in real life thanks to emergency shipments of food. Continuing the bombing through August and September would have resulted in mass famine.

Your own source points out: "This strangulation would have more effectively and efficiently destroyed the economic structure of the country than individually destroying Japan's cities and factories . It would have reduced Japan to a series of isolated communities, incapable of any sustained industrial production, incapable of moving food from the agricultural areas to the cities, and incapable of rapid large-scale movements of troops and munitions."

 

[Roadvirus]

Prove it

Look up "Operation Downfall" on wikipedia. Then "Volunteer Fighting Corps".

 

[vegas giants]

Look up "Operation Downfall" on wikipedia. Then "Volunteer Fighting Corps".

No invasion was ever going to be necessary

 

[vegas giants]

By August 1945 the conventional bombing campaign of the USAAF was shifting targets towards Japan's rail and road infrastructure to cripple Japanese food production and supply. Japan itself barely avoided mass starvation in real life thanks to emergency shipments of food. Continuing the bombing through August and September would have resulted in mass famine.

Your own source points out: "This strangulation would have more effectively and efficiently destroyed the economic structure of the country than individually destroying Japan's cities and factories . It would have reduced Japan to a series of isolated communities, incapable of any sustained industrial production, incapable of moving food from the agricultural areas to the cities, and incapable of rapid large-scale movements of troops and munitions."

Over in a matter of weeks. The war was over

The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan.

— Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, [89]

The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons ... The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

— Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman, 1950, [99]

The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.

— Major General Curtis LeMay, XXI Bomber Command, September 1945, [100]

The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment ... It was a mistake to ever drop it ... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it.

— Fleet Admiral William Halsey Jr., 1946, [100]

 

[Tigerace117]

No invasion was ever going to be necessary

The Japanese had the real say in that, and until the nukes were dropped they were damn sure going to fight to the bitter end.

The opinions of people years after the fact, when they no longer had to face the military reality of the situation, are irrelevant. It’s like claiming the US never should have entered WW2 because Germany probably couldn’t have beaten the USSR.

 

[Rexedgar]

It’s very difficult to “Monday Morning Quarterback” when so much time has passed. My mother was born in 1924 and was very much a liberal in her politics. She always opined that if the Japanese were Caucasian, the bomb would probably not been used.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Over in a matter of weeks. The war was over

Why are you more comfortable killing more Japanese civilians just to avoid using the atomic bomb?

General Curtis LeMay:

The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace.

Incorrect.

The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons ... The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.

— Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman, 1950, [99]

The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.

— Major General Curtis LeMay, XXI Bomber Command, September 1945, [100]

The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment ... It was a mistake to ever drop it ... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it.

— Fleet Admiral William Halsey Jr., 1946, [100]

This is not backed up by any actual evidence.

 

[vegas giants]

The Japanese had the real say in that, and until the nukes were dropped they were damn sure going to fight to the bitter end.

The opinions of people years after the fact, when they no longer had to face the military reality of the situation, are irrelevant. It’s like claiming the US never should have entered WW2 because Germany probably couldn’t have beaten the USSR.

Thank you for your opinion.

I will go with nimitz and Leahy and others though

 

[Jredbaron96]

It’s very difficult to “Monday Morning Quarterback” when so much time has passed. My mother was born in 1924 and was very much a liberal in her politics. She always opined that if the Japanese were Caucasian, the bomb would probably not been used.

The bomb was built with the intention of being used on Germany.

 

[vegas giants]

Why are you more comfortable killing more Japanese civilians just to avoid using the atomic bomb?



Incorrect.



This is not backed up by any actual evidence.

Let's sum up. I have posted a ton of actual evidence.


You have posted none.

 

[Tigerace117]

Thank you for your opinion.

I will go with nimitz and Leahy and others though

Clouded by sentimentality years after the war, and therefor irrelevant.

Perhaps someone should have asked Nimitz how many more of his sailors he was willing to lose to kamikazes while waiting for enough people to starve to death that it would actually affect the imperial high command and force Japan to finally decide to give up.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Let's sum up. I have posted a ton of actual evidence.

You have posted quotes by people who were not directly involved in Japan's internal decision making. This is not evidence just because you agree with it.

You have posted none.

Specify something I have said and I will cite it for you.

 

[Rexedgar]

The bomb was built with the intention of being used on Germany.

Yeah, but it wasn’t........

 

[vegas giants]

You have posted quotes by people who were not directly involved in Japan's internal decision making. This is not evidence just because you agree with it.



Specify something I have said and I will cite it for you.

Yes direct evidence from the greatest military minds this country has ever known. And a study by the US army.


And then we have your opinion

 

[vegas giants]

Clouded by sentimentality years after the war, and therefor irrelevant.

Perhaps someone should have asked Nimitz how many more of his sailors he was willing to lose to kamikazes while waiting for enough people to starve to death that it would actually affect the imperial high command and force Japan to finally decide to give up.

Oh look.more opinion from you.


How nice

 

[Jredbaron96]

Yeah, but it wasn’t........

Yes it was. It was intended to be dropped on Germany, but they surrendered before it was ready.