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Why wasn't abortion and "women's reproductive rights" more important to voters?

There is one clause that refers to life, and it applies to any person, not just born or unborn ones.

Still waiting for you to prove this claim. Cite something that proves it...besides the actual text of the 14th which you have misinterpreted.

Or...prove your claim.
 
Still waiting for you to prove this claim. Cite something that proves it...besides the actual text of the 14th which you have misinterpreted.
Why isn't the US Constitution enough for you? Why would Congress need to write a law that says the same thing as the US Constitution? :confused:

If I can't find the 13th amendment in the US Code, it, too, doesn't exist?
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Or...prove your claim.
Your question makes no sense. Why would Congress need to write and pass a bill that says the same thing as the US Constitution?
 
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But again, if it's really a baby, why would it be acceptable to murder it even in those cases? That's the thing...the anti-choicers insist it's a baby, the same as a born infant...but then hypocritically many still would accept murdering them in those cases you named.

This is the foundational dishonesty of the great majority of anti-choicers. They want to claim and 'use' the idea the unborn are the same as babies...and refuse to admit they are not.
Yawn............ I gave you my point of view. Take it or leave it.
 
I'd consider that to be this:


But even if you don't, I don't see how that helps your argument.
Because a person has to also be born first under the Constitution and federal law. Funny how you omit that part. It certainly doesn't help your argument, whatever that is.
Where's your proof it considers midgets persons?
Are they born?
Why would it need to? Have you never heard of the 10th amendment?
What about it?
So will you finally stop whining about abortion?
You first! You're the one going on and on about the unborn being persons or having rights, when that is clearly and legally not the case.
 
Well that's just too bad. You cannot have an unrestricted or unregulated abortion.
Neither you or the states have provided any legal explanation as to why not.
How many times do I need to say it. the point is that the issue is decided in the individual states where they are accountable to the voters. Yes, some states may have more restrictions, some les, some even none. It's not about what restrictions I would impose.
Yo have made it clear what restrictions you would impose or at least support. What you haven't explaoned is why those restrictions should be imposed at all.
And I gave you my own personal stances.
Based on what? Nothing more than your feelings?
Restrictions are common sense.
How so? What would be a "common sense" restriction and under what parameter makes it "common sense?"
Abortion is regulated like any other medical procedure and not everyone supports the concept of "let's kill the baby merely because I did not intend to get pregnant".
Yes abortion is regulated. Why does it need the level of "regulation" by politicians that it gets as opposed to actual medical professionals and medical standards?

I prefer not to murder babies, period.
No one is murdering babies as that is already illegal, period! But were talking about abortion, which has nothing to do with babies or murder.
For the trillionth time, constitutionally the individual states is where your fight is if you want to make changes.
If the states then allowed abortion or "murdering babies" as you say, would you have any issue with it, as it's a "states matter?"
Yawn............ I gave you my point of view. Take it or leave it.
Left it! Let us know when you have something of substance to offer.
 
Neither you or the states have provided any legal explanation as to why not.
I am not obligated to provide you anything. Pose your question to the individual states and their voters.
Yo have made it clear what restrictions you would impose or at least support. What you haven't explaoned is why those restrictions should be imposed at all.
Again, I am under no oblgation to.
Based on what? Nothing more than your feelings?
based on my point of view.
How so? What would be a "common sense" restriction and under what parameter makes it "common sense?"
If there were no restrictions, baby murdering would become just routine birth control. like the pills. Some would murder the baby as late is a day before birth.
Yes abortion is regulated. Why does it need the level of "regulation" by politicians that it gets as opposed to actual medical professionals and medical standards?
Meeical professionals unless they become congress critters do not write laws. Pollytishuns do.
No one is murdering babies as that is already illegal, period! But were talking about abortion, which has nothing to do with babies or murder.
Nothing to do with babies???????????????
If the states then allowed abortion or "murdering babies" as you say, would you have any issue with it, as it's a "states matter?"
What matters is that constitutionally it is a state issue.
Left it! Let us know when you have something of substance to offer.
Yawn............
 
Your question makes no sense. Why would Congress need to write and pass a bill that says the same thing as the US Constitution?

Dont ask more questions, prove your ⬇️ claim. If the federal govt recognized the unborn as persons, recognized unborn rights, how can the Dobbs decision allow states to have them killed without due process?

There is one clause that refers to life, and it applies to any person, not just born or unborn ones.

Dont bother quoting the 14th Amendment again, it clearly says (explanation, not quoted) that only persons born or naturalized in the US are subject to the jurisdiction of the US. (Jurisdiction: The power, right, or authority to interpret and apply the law link) . And the rest of that section and the entire amendment are based on that.

Why would the 14th specify 'born?' Because it only born persons or those naturalized in the US are subject to the jurisdiction of the US...which authority or right isnt under that jurisdiction?)

Why dont you tell us, cite it from federal law, federal court decisions, the Const, etc. where the federal govt recognizes the unborn as persons, recognizes their rights? Quote it specifically, since you wont accept anything from us.​
Like my Aunt Etta always said, "either shit or get off the pot." Stop all the avoidance and obstructions and tell us. I've asked you enough...why wont you? Can you?
The Dobbs decision is an example of proof the unborn are not persons. Where is your proof otherwise?
 
I am not obligated to provide you anything. Pose your question to the individual states and their voters.

Again, I am under no oblgation to.

based on my point of view.

If there were no restrictions, baby murdering would become just routine birth control. like the pills. Some would murder the baby as late is a day before birth.

Meeical professionals unless they become congress critters do not write laws. Pollytishuns do.

Nothing to do with babies???????????????

What matters is that constitutionally it is a state issue.

Yawn............
In other words, you're not really interested in any meaningful discussion. Just typical talking points with no substance, all feelings. Got it.
 
Because a person has to also be born first under the Constitution and federal law. Funny how you omit that part. It certainly doesn't help your argument, whatever that is.
It's part of a different sentence, and refers to the requirements for citizenship, not personhood:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
And actually, one does not merely have to be born, but born in the United States, or naturalized there, to be a citizen. Again, this has nothing to do with personhood, unless you want to take the position that green card holders are not persons.
Are they born?

What about it?

You first! You're the one going on and on about the unborn being persons or having rights, when that is clearly and legally not the case.
 
Dont bother quoting the 14th Amendment again, it clearly says (explanation, not quoted) that only persons born or naturalized in the US are subject to the jurisdiction of the US. (Jurisdiction: The power, right, or authority to interpret and apply the law link) . And the rest of that section and the entire amendment are based on that.
Not an explanation, but another revision.

Again, no point in arguing with someone who lives in an alternate reality with their own constitution.
Why would the 14th specify 'born?' Because it only born persons or those naturalized in the US are subject to the jurisdiction of the US...which authority or right isnt under that jurisdiction?)

Why dont you tell us, cite it from federal law, federal court decisions, the Const, etc. where the federal govt recognizes the unborn as persons, recognizes their rights? Quote it specifically, since you wont accept anything from us.​
Like my Aunt Etta always said, "either shit or get off the pot." Stop all the avoidance and obstructions and tell us. I've asked you enough...why wont you? Can you?
The Dobbs decision is an example of proof the unborn are not persons. Where is your proof otherwise?
 
It's part of a different sentence, and refers to the requirements for citizenship, not personhood:

And actually, one does not merely have to be born, but born in the United States, or naturalized there, to be a citizen. Again, this has nothing to do with personhood, unless you want to take the position that green card holders are not persons.
Green card holders are not citizens. But they are persons, as they are already born. You still fail to specify how the unborn are considered legal persons with rights under the Constitution, federal law, or even state laws which permit elective abortion which, if the unborn were persons with rights, it would be legally considered to be murder, which it is not in any state. You utterly and continuously failed to reconcile all those points with regards to personhood.
 
Green card holders are not citizens. But they are persons, as they are already born.
...but not in the United States as the sentence you brought up requires.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

So if you want to abuse this clause to say the unborn are not persons, then neither are green card holders.

You still fail to specify how the unborn are considered legal persons with rights under the Constitution, federal law, or even state laws which permit elective abortion which, if the unborn were persons with rights, it would be legally considered to be murder, which it is not in any state. You utterly and continuously failed to reconcile all those points with regards to personhood.
First we need to teach you basic sentence structure. Then we'll move onto more complex subjects.
 
...but not in the United States as the sentence you brought up requires.



So if you want to abuse this clause to say the unborn are not persons, then neither are green card holders.


First we need to teach you basic sentence structure. Then we'll move onto more complex subjects.
You still overlook the "persons born" part. ANd if they become naturalized, they are also citizens. You still haven't demonstrated how the Constitution (or federal law) applies to the unborn. Or reconciled the previous points made. It's like you think ignoring them will make them invalid.
 
You still overlook the "persons born" part.
You have to read the whole sentence, not just two words. Do you not get how "sentences" work? You can't just ignore words arbitrarily. Let's try again:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
If you think the part in red is the requirement for personhood (I disagree, but we'll get to that later; we're going to start slowly so you don't get overwhelmed), that would mean tourists, work visa holders, refugees, and green card holders are not persons, as they were neither born in the United States nor naturalized in the United States.
ANd if they become naturalized, they are also citizens. You still haven't demonstrated how the Constitution (or federal law) applies to the unborn. Or reconciled the previous points made. It's like you think ignoring them will make them invalid.
Like I said, we have to start slowly. Let's see if you can do better than Lursa in learning how sentences work.
 
You have to read the whole sentence, not just two words. Do you not get how "sentences" work? You can't just ignore words arbitrarily. Let's try again:

If you think the part in red is the requirement for personhood (I disagree, but we'll get to that later; we're going to start slowly so you don't get overwhelmed), that would mean tourists, work visa holders, refugees, and green card holders are not persons, as they were neither born in the United States nor naturalized in the United States.

Like I said, we have to start slowly. Let's see if you can do better than Lursa in learning how sentences work.
Snark, along with your lack of comprehension, only demonstrates the weakness of your argument. It's no surprise @Lursa repeately blows your arguments out of the water. Still waiting for you to explain how states can allow elective abortion and those that do allow elective abortion do not consider abortion murder of a presumed "person" nor does the federal govenment.
 
Not an explanation, but another revision.

Again, no point in arguing with someone who lives in an alternate reality with their own constitution.

Nope, a further clarification. And you can make it about me...yet it's your failure. You havent even supported your claim. You cant respond to the example about Dobbs, 🤷 you are just running your "keyboard" 😄 and running away.

Why cant you prove your ⬇️ claim? If the federal govt recognized the unborn as persons, recognized unborn rights, how can the Dobbs decision allow states to have them killed without due process?

There is one clause that refers to life, and it applies to any person, not just born or unborn ones.

Dont bother quoting the 14th Amendment text again, you cant even get spelling points for that 😄 Cut and paste doesnt mean you understand it.

Why dont you tell us, cite it from federal law, federal court decisions, the Const, etc. where the federal govt recognizes the unborn as persons, recognizes their rights? Quote it specifically, since you wont accept anything from us.​
Like my Aunt Etta always said, "either shit or get off the pot." Stop all the avoidance and obstructions and tell us. I've asked you enough...why wont you? Can you?

The Dobbs decision is an example of proof the unborn are not persons. Where is your proof otherwise?
 
Snark, along with your lack of comprehension, only demonstrates the weakness of your argument. It's no surprise @Lursa repeately blows your arguments out of the water. Still waiting for you to explain how states can allow elective abortion and those that do allow elective abortion do not consider abortion murder of a presumed "person" nor does the federal govenment.
And another leftist fails to understand how sentences work...
 
And another leftist fails to understand how sentences work...
I'm not a leftist. So that's another thing you're wrong about. And if you have to turn this into a left/right thing (which is irrelevant to the discussion), it's clear you have a bias and a weak-@ss argument, which only further demolishes your credibility. Although Lursa already did that in spades.
 
And another leftist fails to understand how sentences work...

Dont keep desperately butchering the Const.

Use some real life examples in federal law or federal court decisions, etc. to prove he's wrong.

Like I proved you're wrong with the example of the Dobbs decision.
 
Nope. There is a federal ban on unrestricted PBAs. If it's a matter of saving the mother's life, it's legal. Short of that there is no legitimate reason to murder a baby that close to birth.
In NY state, if someone is threatening your life but you have the ability to flee readily to safety, you have an obligation to do so, except in four circumstances, namely, if someone is threatening to rape, sexually assault, kidnap, or felony rob you. In those cases, and cases where you are actually being raped, sexually assaulted, kidnapped, or felony robbed, you have the right to use lethal means if necessary to prevent or stop that felony, and so does a third party trying to help you.

If a man escapes from an asylum for the criminally insane and threatens to rape a woman or is in the process of raping her, she has a right to use lethal force if needed to prevent/stop the felony, as does a third party. Now, if such a man rapes a woman, after the fact of the rape, he wouldn't be held responsible for the rape and tried and found guilty, because he would be legally insane, which is not guilty. Nonetheless, facing the threat or being subject to the raping, the victim would still have that right, and so would a third party. That's because a crime is occurring, even though the one committing the deed can't be found guilty of committing it.

For me, it's the same for any embryo or fetus. Without the woman's consent, no embryo or fetus has a legal right to implant in the woman's body and use it as a habitat or use her tissue to make a placenta or shut down part of her immune system for nine months or take oxygen and nutrients out of her blood for its use.

Moreover, it couldn't have such a right even if it were a legal person, because no person has ever had such a right. If you or I did that, we would be kidnapping, raping, sexually assaulting, and felony robbing the woman, to say nothing of other crimes. I don't see how her self-defense or even a third party's attempt to help it could possibly be considered murder in NY even if the fetus were declared a person.

Notice that saving the woman's life is not the only issue here. In fact, the NY law doesn't stipulate that the reason why lethal force is allowed if necessary is that the victim's life is being threatened and it's assumed he or she can't safely flee. Rape is not a threat to a person's life, but it's treated that seriously in this state.
 
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You won't try to refute it because you CAN'T! The words in the US Constitution are the words in the US Constitution. If we can't agree on which way is up, or that trees exist, or what's written in the Constitution is what's written in the Constitution, there's little reason to continue the discussion.

Wonderful. Enjoy your version of the US Constitution and your version of the Supreme Court.
I do enjoy them. Because I know that, though it will take some time, as long as we remain a democratic republic that holds elections, eventually, people who oppose the constitutional philosophy of the SC's conservative Catholics will replace them and that philosophy. Then, Dobbs will be overturned, just as Roe was overturned. So will not be allowed to have Dobbs forever - it's an even worse decision than Roe was.
We've been over this. They can't count the exact number of people to begin with.
They can count the exact number, even though it is probable that mistakes will be made. That latter is unimportant. What's important is that they can't possibly count the exact number of the unborn. The ambiguity guarantees error.
Who said anything about forcing pregnancy tests as far as investigating abortions is concerned? What would that even prove? If the person is pregnant, she obviously didn't get an abortion.
You can't clearly tell whether a woman got an induced abortion or had a spontaneous abortion. Of known pregnancies, as many as 20 to 25% end in spontaneous abortion. You want the government to waste all its money and time investigating miscarriages now? Women will stop having sex with men and having kids at all - just wait until you outrage even the anti-choice women!
 
For me, it's the same for any embryo or fetus. Without the woman's consent, no embryo or fetus has a legal right to implant in the woman's body and use it as a habitat or use her tissue to make a placenta or shut down part of her immune system for nine months or take oxygen and nutrients out of her blood for its use.
The above only applies in cases of rape or incest. Consensual sex is another matter. To nature, it's an invitation. And the concept of comparing an embroyo or fetus brought about by consensual intercourse to a rapist or kidnapper is beyond the pale.
 
The above only applies in cases of rape or incest. Consensual sex is another matter. To nature, it's an invitation. And the concept of comparing an embroyo or fetus brought about by consensual intercourse to a rapist or kidnapper is beyond the pale.
What difference does it make? Conception can occur regardless of the circumstances, be it rape, incest, or consensual. That's nature. All you're doing is selecting which circumstances are appropriate or not for abortion, which is also a hypocritical position. And regardless of the circumstances, an embryo/fetus inhabits and feeds off the woman's body & bodily resources. She cannot be legaly compelled to have her body used to support another without consent, just as no one else can have their bodies used for another, per established legal precedent.
 
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