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Why the Founding Fatthers are rolling over in their graves due to Alito’s Dobbs decision

"[States cannot create rights] that are protected at the expense of women's Const and civil rights"

Then how could state slander or libel laws ever be Constitutional given they infringe on free speech?
Free speech is limited to when it causes or results in harm to another person. On what legal basis can a state put restrictions on abortion and infringing on a woman's rights or autonomy when it harms no one or society?
 
He posted it, you liked it. QED: I'm not the one lying, you are.

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(And when I mentioned how often you get your arse handed to you in our debates, this is what I meant).

Yet more dishonesty from you. Let’s review:

Then you know that it is the right of the Supreme court to enumerate rights not mentioned in the Constitution.

To which you eventually responded with the totally ridiculous and false claim that this somehow meant that

There are liberals in this thread who are literally arguing that Trump’s appointed justices should have the authority to write into the Constitution any new federal government power they wish.

That was the complete LIE from you that I identified. Nowhere does iguanaman nor anyone else indicate that the SC has the “authority” to write into the Constitution “ANY new federal government power”. You are once again dishonestly twisting and strawmanning the words of others. Plus you are using the logical fallacy of APPEAL TO EXTREMES. One or two instances do not translate to “any”.
And I note that you still ignore my question as to whether it was proper for the SC to declare a “right” of minorities to attend an integrated school. Actually, your silence has answered the question, and it’s not pretty.
 
"[States cannot create rights] that are protected at the expense of women's Const and civil rights"

Then how could state slander or libel laws ever be Constitutional given they infringe on free speech?

No idea. How can states have laws allow killing for self-defense but not for money? It's a violation of a person's right to life to kill them, right? Gee, there must be additional, specific legal criteria affecting the laws. :rolleyes:
 
Yet more dishonesty from you. Let’s review:



To which you eventually responded with the totally ridiculous and false claim that this somehow meant that



That was the complete LIE from you that I identified. Nowhere does iguanaman nor anyone else indicate that the SC has the “authority” to write into the Constitution “ANY new federal government power”. You are once again dishonestly twisting and strawmanning the words of others. Plus you are using the logical fallacy of APPEAL TO EXTREMES. One or two instances do not translate to “any”.
And I note that you still ignore my question as to whether it was proper for the SC to declare a “right” of minorities to attend an integrated school. Actually, your silence has answered the question, and it’s not pretty.
Could you at least try and make sense?

This is the post you "liked:"
Then you know that it is the right of the Supreme court to enumerate rights not mentioned in the Constitution.

Do you believe that statement is true, yes or no?
 
No idea. How can states have laws allow killing for self-defense but not for money? It's a violation of a person's right to life to kill them, right? Gee, there must be additional, specific legal criteria affecting the laws. :rolleyes:
You'd have an idea if you thought it through. That the First Amendment is no protection against state libel and slander charges is proof that state laws can supercede even Constitutionally protected rights when it's shown that exercising that right harms another.

If you can't acknowledge this point, there's no sense in saying anything else on the matter.
 
You'd have an idea if you thought it through. That the First Amendment is no protection against state libel and slander charges is proof that state laws can supercede even Constitutionally protected rights when it's shown that exercising that right harms another.

No it's not proof. The proof is in the legal reasoning. Please cite and show the legal foundation for that.

If you can't acknowledge this point, there's no sense in saying anything else on the matter.

Great...now you get to prove how it's relevant. If you cant...it's not.

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I assert the people's right to vote, either directly or indirectly through their elected state legislatures, and define the abortion laws within the jurisdiction of their state is an "unenumerated right" and thus those laws cannot be prohibited by the federal government per the 10th Amendment.

Feel free to try and prove that assertion wrong.
As long as the state law (for anything actually) doesn’t supersede the Constitution or violates it, then yes, you are correct.

But if it does, then no, the 10th Amendment will not protect the state law.

The opening on abortion as the recent SC rulings on it have provided is that if Congress passes a bill that prevents abortion from being banned, then it passes the 10th Amendment test by making it a federal law and calling abortion an unenumerated right.

Until then…
 
You'd have an idea if you thought it through. That the First Amendment is no protection against state libel and slander charges is proof that state laws can supercede even Constitutionally protected rights when it's shown that exercising that right harms another.
If that's the case, explain how abortion rights harms another person! What is the legal reasoning for abortion restrictions? It's very telling how you repeatedly dodge that question.
 
To say the founding fathers are rolling in their graves is to give original intent more value than it is worth.
 
As long as the state law (for anything actually) doesn’t supersede the Constitution or violates it, then yes, you are correct.

But if it does, then no, the 10th Amendment will not protect the state law.

The opening on abortion as the recent SC rulings on it have provided is that if Congress passes a bill that prevents abortion from being banned, then it passes the 10th Amendment test by making it a federal law and calling abortion an unenumerated right.

Until then…
There we differ. I don't believe Congress has the authority overrule a state's definition of a human with a right to life.

But we'll see.
 
The southern states screamed "states rights" while they were trying to continue slavery / human trafficking but now they don't even want the citizens OF THE STATE to vote on women's rights.
 
Could you at least try and make sense?

Oh the irony!

Do you believe that statement is true, yes or no?

Of course it is. Of course it is the DUTY of the Supreme Court to enumerate rights not mentioned in the Constitution! It says so right there in the Ninth Amendment: “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

But the SC, of course, would need to take a very close look in order to adequately curate unenumerated rights, such as the right of minorities to attend integrated schools and the right of women to privacy in regards to medical decisions between her and her doctor. But that does not mean that “the SC has the “authority” to write into the Constitution ANY new federal government power”. You are once again dishonestly twisting and strawmanning the words of others. Plus you are using the logical fallacy of APPEAL TO EXTREMES. One or two instances do not translate to “any”.

And I note that you still ignore my question as to whether it was proper for the SC to declare a “right” of minorities to attend an integrated school. Actually, your silence has answered the question, and it’s not pretty.
 
Why is it not proof? Explain.

I gave you an example of why it's not proof. Stop stalling. Here, again:

The proof is in the legal reasoning. Please cite and show the legal foundation for that. Prove how it's relevant. If you cant...it's not.​
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There we differ. I don't believe Congress has the authority overrule a state's definition of a human with a right to life.

But we'll see.

The state can do that. But they cannot violate women's federally recognized/Const rights in protecting that life.

And you know this. It's very discourteous for you to lead other posters on pretending you dont.

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Supreme Court to enumerate rights not mentioned in the Constitution!
Then why are you arguing with me? I asserted you support the idea of appointed justices having the authority to write into the Constitution any new federal government power they wish, and here you are confirming that.
 
I gave you an example of why it's not proof. Stop stalling. Here, again:

The proof is in the legal reasoning. Please cite and show the legal foundation for that. Prove how it's relevant. If you cant...it's not.​
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That is not an explanation of your position. It's a demand that I explain mine, and I've already done that: state slander and libel laws supercede the first amendment.

You now need to explain why you believe that is not true. (Which we both know you will not do.)
 
The state can do that. But they cannot violate women's federally recognized/Const rights in protecting that life.
So states can violate her first amendment rights when it harms another but not her privacy rights when it harms another?

Explain that contradiction.
 
The Founding Fathers were so concerned about the rights of the citizens of the new nation that they inserted the first Ten Amendments, known as the Bill of Rights, to make certain that they would be forever protected. The focus of the modern Supreme Court was to expand the legal standing of unenumerated rights, especially in the area of civil rights, until the far right extremists on the present SC severely limited the right to privacy upon which the Roe decision was based.

Let’s take a look at a couple of the central themes of the Bill if Rights:

Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,………

Ninth Amendment
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

While the term “privacy” was not used, it quickly becomes quite clear that it was fully intended as an “unenumerated” right, that the people should be legally “secure in their persons”. It thus became the foundation of the Roe decision that a woman’s privacy should not be invaded by the state as regards her decision about terminating her pregnancy. That is, until the far right extremists on the SC allowed their personal religious biases to override a principle of the Constitution, namely the right to personal privacy, in favor of making a woman a ward of the state at the instant of pregnancy. Yes, the Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves over the injustice towards the privacy of certain citizens, namely women, by what is clearly a religious-based POLITICAL faction on the SC.
Better tell the Supreme Court justices that they are lightweights and don't know what you do.
 
So states can violate her first amendment rights when it harms another but not her privacy rights when it harms another?

Explain that contradiction.
What other is she harming, especially in an abortion?
 
That is not an explanation of your position. It's a demand that I explain mine, and I've already done that: state slander and libel laws supercede the first amendment.

You now need to explain why you believe that is not true. (Which we both know you will not do.)

Correct. it's not an explanation. I dont understand your example that supposedly disputes mine. If you cant explain HOW yours proves mine wrong, if you cant show the legal reasoning supporting yours and HOW it disproves mine...I cant respond with an explanation.

So...where is it? The proof your 1st A example disproves mine. LOL now I know you cant, after all your stalling.

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So states can violate her first amendment rights when it harms another but not her privacy rights when it harms another?

Explain that contradiction.

When is the state violating her 1st Amendment rights and how? Provide the legal reasoning behind the laws you must be referring to.

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