Why socialism, communism, Marxism, and the progressive left ideologues are based on faith that defies science, history, and logic.

[RealityChecker]

Let me fix that for you:

"It seems that it is very hard to differentiate between reality and fantasy for many who identify themselves as being on the Republican right. Trump supporting zealots appear to have the same brainwashed mindset as the deluded followers of religious cults, healing cults, quacks, and put their trust or faith in con artists like Bernie Madoff and Trump. They not hard to expose as zealots because they know they cannot explain why they believe what their dubious ideas. Those who dare question their vision of some alternative reality are quickly seen as the enemy. They seek to silence (or worse) anyone who dares question any of their dubious ideas and reject any and all evidence that conflict with their "vision" of reality"

That is more accurate.

Well there are certainly Trump supporters who zealous about some topics. But it seems pretty clear even in this still relatively short forum, that it is those on the political right more interested in civil debate, while those on the political left seem more driven by ideas and ideology they have no interest in defending or debating.

You are wrongly assuming that my commentary which you quoted is talking about you.

Well your commentary here began with this statement in response to my comment:

"Your commentary is rife with wrapping itself into Trump and Right Winger promoted conspiracies. It is also filled with the elements of Conservative Agenda,......" RealityNow

So why would I not think it was in response to my commentary?

now, as to your comment about "what to debate"... I have no problem with points of agreement upon matters, but we have our own individual perspectives, when it comes to the details of matters.
I'm not chasing controversy, when it exist, I deal with it. My commentary is expressing my thoughts about subject matter. I'm certain I have enough content in these forums that expressive many variables and aspects of society, life, government, civics and much else.

Why would anyone assume your commentary was not an expression of ideas you currently embrace?

I respect that the United States has a Federal Government, and States Rights should not usurp Federal Governing Regulatory Principles and Policies. I've written thousands of commentary that stands against Corporate Dictations of our Regulatory Systems. That too has been discussed in numerous postings.

So what do you think of the efforts of many on the progressive left and many Democrats to censor and cancel those who oppose their political ideas or ideology?

Do you see the Federal government's efforts to treat people differently based on gender identity, racial identity, etc.? Should people be treated differently based on group identity or should the law demand equal treatment of individuals?

 

[NolanVoyd]

Well there are certainly Trump supporters who zealous about some topics. But it seems pretty clear even in this still relatively short forum, that it is those on the political right more interested in civil debate, while those on the political left seem more driven by ideas and ideology they have no interest in defending or debating.

Well your commentary here began with this statement in response to my comment:

"Your commentary is rife with wrapping itself into Trump and Right Winger promoted conspiracies. It is also filled with the elements of Conservative Agenda,......" RealityNow

So why would I not think it was in response to my commentary?

Why would anyone assume your commentary was not an expression of ideas you currently embrace?

So what do you think of the efforts of many on the progressive left and many Democrats to censor and cancel those who oppose their political ideas or ideology?

Do you see the Federal government's efforts to treat people differently based on gender identity, racial identity, etc.? Should people be treated differently based on group identity or should the law demand equal treatment of individuals?

Do you think Trump was interested in civil debate?

 

[RealityChecker]

Do you think Trump was interested in civil debate?

Certainly Trump as POTUS was far more interested in civil debate than Joe Biden, VP Harris, or Pelosi and AOC are. Those Democrats all seem more interested in avoiding debate and censoring and/or silencing those who disagreed with their political ideas and goals than Trump ever was. Hell Biden is even reluctant to answer reporters soft ball questions and is quick to anger and make ad hominem insults at anyone who dared question him or challenged his dubious opinions.

 

[NolanVoyd]

Certainly Trump as POTUS was far more interested in civil debate than Joe Biden, VP Harris, or Pelosi and AOC are. Those Democrats all seem more interested in avoiding debate and censoring and/or silencing those who disagreed with their political ideas and goals than Trump ever was. Hell Biden is even reluctant to answer reporters soft ball questions and is quick to anger and make ad hominem insults at anyone who dared question him or challenged his dubious opinions.

Lol.

You have no credibility.

Trump was objectively the most uncivil president in American History.

 

[RealityChecker]

Lol.

You have no credibility.

That is your opinion, but you know what they say about unsubstantiated opinions, right?

Trump was objectively the most uncivil president in American History.

Actually, Trump was arguably the POTUS who was treated in the most discourteous or uncivil manner by the media. That is objectively true. It is also true that Trump was far more willing to debate and explain his policies than most others POTUS. And when the Democrats and their media lapdogs lied and smeared him he pushed back against those lies. Hell he was the target of two impeachment based on what? No high crimes and in fact no crimes at all but mostly lies and apparent intentional misconstruing of his words and actions. The Clinton campaign and the Deep State conspired to smear him with lies about him being a Russian spy or "Putin puppet". We now know the Obama/Biden administration and their intelligence agents blatantly used a phony "dossier" that was little more than lies and dubious innuendos largely made up by operatives in and out of the Obama/Biden administration that used the mostly made up lies from a paid UK spy to create what was called the "Steele dossier". The Democrat run law firm Perkins Coie we know did everything it could think of to (much of it illegal) to defeat Trump and then conspire with Obama/Biden intelligence officials to get phony FISA warrants used to spy on Trump campaign and later get a dubious special counsel appointed with the clear purpose of undermining the Trump Presidency. If at times Trump expressed some anger and frustration with the fake news media pushing this phony narrative and trying to undermine his presidency it is certainly understandable. More here:

Opinion | Perkins Coie in the Dock

An appeal court sanctions the Democratic Party’s elections-law firm for lack of candor.

www.wsj.com

 

[RealityNow]

Certainly Trump as POTUS was far more interested in civil debate than Joe Biden, VP Harris, or Pelosi and AOC are. Those Democrats all seem more interested in avoiding debate and censoring and/or silencing those who disagreed with their political ideas and goals than Trump ever was. Hell Biden is even reluctant to answer reporters soft ball questions and is quick to anger and make ad hominem insults at anyone who dared question him or challenged his dubious opinions.

That is not true and you know it. Trump delighted in nothing but "denigrating anything and everything" followed by patronizing himself. It's the standard mindset of someone who claims themselves 'smarter than everyone", calls himself a stable genius and proceeds to claim everything about America is wrong, and then attacks departments, divisions, agencies, organizations and people, and stomping down on people who don't submit to him.

Biden knows what to respond to and what not to respond to. "Words Matter" !!!! Ambiguous questions and questions about things that are far deeper than giving a quick impromptu response, are best not to be responded to.
Too many people are in search of "controversy". Too much of the media is looking for something to pounce upon.

Biden has the Pandemic, The Nation and the Entire World is trying to recover from Effects of the Pandemic, People are finding they no longer will allow employers to under-pay them and give them bad working conditions, yet, the public want to try to blame that on Biden. (It's the dumbest thing ever). The nature of every system including imports has suffered from corporate challenges due to COVID.. yet, people expect him to wave a magic wand and make it all better in an instance.
Biden does not attack the government nor its agencies, and still people expect him to do things that are the responsibility of congress to design and pass.
It's just a mass of people who "think being president that one is suppose to be a "magician" and make their lives magical. while they sit on their ass bickering, bitching and moaning while wrapped in and blanket of expectations.

People need to relax and get themselves busy trying to make things better in their own lives. Then the works that are proposed can move forward and benefit nation and people.

 

[RealityNow]

Well there are certainly Trump supporters who zealous about some topics. But it seems pretty clear even in this still relatively short forum, that it is those on the political right more interested in civil debate, while those on the political left seem more driven by ideas and ideology they have no interest in defending or debating.

Well your commentary here began with this statement in response to my comment:

"Your commentary is rife with wrapping itself into Trump and Right Winger promoted conspiracies. It is also filled with the elements of Conservative Agenda,......" RealityNow

So why would I not think it was in response to my commentary?

Why would anyone assume your commentary was not an expression of ideas you currently embrace?

So what do you think of the efforts of many on the progressive left and many Democrats to censor and cancel those who oppose their political ideas or ideology?

Do you see the Federal government's efforts to treat people differently based on gender identity, racial identity, etc.? Should people be treated differently based on group identity or should the law demand equal treatment of individuals?

You seem not to understand the Federal Government... but you did not have a problem when everything was focused on "white people". Now, because the government does things to address the inequality that raged for 100's of years and don't pander to white people as if they have to be put first and put above everything and everyone. You don't like that it focus on acknowledging the viability and equality of women, gays, blacks and immigrants.
As American Citizens.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Many falsehoods in Marxist ideologies, people are just not wired to conform to them well enough.

I'm not sure what you are thinking of here specifically. I agree there are contradictions in schools of Marxist thought, though I doubt I'm thinking of the same ones you are.

However CAPITALISM also contains many falsehoods, and also is confused with free enterprise.

Well, I agree here.

It wasn't CAPITALISM that made the world a better place, it was good people doing what seemed fair and profitable under a system of free enterprise.

As a Marxist, I actually do feel pretty comfortable saying capitalism made the world a better place. You 'technically' could have had free markets under feudalism. I think the world still would have been a pretty shit place with lords and peasants working for them in exchange for protection. I do think the breakdown of feudal power structures directly made the lives of most people better.

Progressives don't really want Marxist socialism, they just want to leach off CAPITALISM.

I don't agree with the language (I don't think getting value out of paying taxes as leaching) but otherwise I agree. They say they want 'socialism' but really they mean...like, Norway lol.

Now you and I both know that taken to extremes would kill profitability and exterminate free enterprise, but that doesn't mean that these progressives are wrong in their reasons for wanting a more equitable split of profits between the CAPITALISTS at the top and the workers, they are just misguided into believing in the falsehoods inherent in Marxist ideologies.

I actually think a Marxist approach to restructuring our economy is much better than trying to regulate capitalism to the point that it produces good results for the average person. But at least you recognize that our current system isn't working that great.

@RealityChecker I finally got around to responding.

 

[RealityChecker]

You seem not to understand the Federal Government...

What specifically is it you believe I do not understand and how is it relevant to this OP?

but you did not have a problem when everything was focused on "white people".

Actually, that is not true. Back in the 1960s I was a strong supporter of civil rights. According to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 discriminating for or against people based on race, gender, and other characteristics was outlawed one and for all.

Now, because the government does things to address the inequality that raged for 100's of years and don't pander to white people as if they have to be put first and put above everything and everyone.

Actually, affirmative action policies that were created by a series of POTUS's executive orders have been encouraging the systematic discrimination against white men and especially for black women more than 50 years. That is reality.

You don't like that it focus on acknowledging the viability and equality of women, gays, blacks and immigrants.
As American Citizens.

Wrong. I do not like and have always opposed discrimination based on race, ethnicity, gender or sexual identity, or country of origin. It is starting to appear you are better at creating red herring fallacies and making straw dog arguments than you are at civil debate. I suspect you are familiar with those terms but if not you can easily do a GOOGLE search. So here is my next question for you that I hope you can answer honestly.

Do you see such dishonest and irrelevant red herring arguments and straw dog fallacies as part of a civil debate?

 

[RealityChecker]

@RealityChecker I finally got around to responding.

Kool. Since you responded to nvflash's comment I will allow some time for him to respond to your comment. In the interim if you get a chance to respond to my response to nvflash's comment (my Post #100) I would be be happy to discuss that.

 

[Nomad4Ever]

What we have seen evolving in the US is far less individual liberty and an increasingly rigged market place dominated by an unholy alliance of Federal bureaucrats (sometimes called the "Deep State"), large international businesses, and the mostly corrupt politicians of both major political parties. The flow of money into what is called the "DC Swamp" is what drives this increasingly corrupt system. Some call it "crony capitalism" and others call it "corporatism". Whatever you call it, it is clear the losers are middle class and working class Americans and especially those who are self-employed and small business owners. The winners are the politically connected which includes those owning and running big businesses, unionized government employees, politicians and their families and friends, various nonprofit foundations, and the very rich and increasingly the very rich overseas in cahoots with the ruling elites in the US.

I more or less agree with this sentiment, but some of the language you used is very conspiratorial. Stuff like "the swamp" and "deep state" is just a weird way to refer to...rich people? Especially since people in the actual deep state (full time government bureaucrats) on average are not very rich at all, and are generally not doing anything malicious, just boring administrative desk jobs.

This cabal is often referred to as the globalists who seek to rig the entire global economic system for their own benefit. How am I doing?

I'd try to avoid language like this, at it is often how White Supremacists code their words to indirectly refer to the Jews. Just talk about how globalization has in some ways hurt country's domestic populations, instead of making it sound like there is some Illuminati underground controlling everything.

I think we pretty much agree except perhaps for terminology. Mainstream Democrats are no more progressive than mainstream Republicans. They love the current system they helped create and want to sustain.

I disagree. Virtually all mainstream democrats are more socially progressive, and most are more economically progressive as well. They supported public option healthcare, $15 minimum wage, large infrastructure spending etc.

The one thing the very rich and Deep State actors agreed on was that Trump was way too interested in helping America's small businesses and private sector middle class and working class. Why else would they unite to do everything they could to get rid of him?

How did Trump do that? He seemed mostly interested in removing regulations. If anything I feel like Bernie Sander's fits that description better.

 

[RealityChecker]

I more or less agree with this sentiment, but some of the language you used is very conspiratorial. Stuff like "the swamp" and "deep state" is just a weird way to refer to...rich people?

Actually the Deep State refers a clandestine network of entrenched top Federal bureaucrats. It consists of top government bureaucrats running the various Intelligence agencies, the IRS, the justice department, the State Dept., and other governmental entities. How does it work? Well its clandestine operation to first smear Trump as a Russian agent or Putin Puppet, and spy on the Trump campaign using the phony "Steele Dossier" created, rubber stamped by the FISA court, and then failing to defeat Trump they then used it to get a Special Counsel appointed in hopes of undermining and hopefully impeach Trump. Was that not a clandestine operation of top Federal bureaucrats?

Why would top Federal bureaucrats seek to undermine politicians who sought to reform the Federal bureaucracies? Simple efforts to undermine their influence and ability to control the flow of money the Deep State actors see as a threat to their ability to enrich themselves while catering to the special interests of the very rich and big businesses. So any politicians seeking to "Drain the Swamp" or reduce the size and power of the Federal bureaucrats they perceive as a threat to the system they personally are empowered and enriched by. The ability to keep the money flowing through government bureaucracies to the politically connected "special interest" of big businesses and the very rich owners must be defended by these top Federal bureaucrats against some outsider who wants to undermine the corruption that is the DC Swamp.

Especially since people in the actual deep state (full time government bureaucrats) on average are not very rich at all, and are generally not doing anything malicious, just boring administrative desk jobs.

Actually, most are doing far better than they would with their skills in a free market. Many get rewarded quite well when they leave their government job and get hired by some big crony capitalist to work with their lobbyists and their buddies still working in the Federal bureaucracies. The do pretty well as influence peddlers. Certainly far better the most middle class and working class Americans. Let's face it if corruption did not pay these influence peddlers well they might actually not be will to sell out the interests of most private sector Americans and cater to the more "special interests" of their very rich benefactor. Is that not how crony capitalism or corporatism works?

 

[Nomad4Ever]

Actually the Deep State refers a clandestine network of entrenched top Federal bureaucrats. It consists of top government bureaucrats running the various Intelligence agencies, the IRS, the justice department, the State Dept., and other governmental entities. How does it work? Well its clandestine operation to first smear Trump as a Russian agent or Putin Puppet, and spy on the Trump campaign using the phony "Steele Dossier" created, rubber stamped by the FISA court, and then failing to defeat Trump they then used it to get a Special Counsel appointed in hopes of undermining and hopefully impeach Trump. Was that not a clandestine operation of top Federal bureaucrats?

I'm sorry man, I just don't buy into all the conspiratorial stuff. We can keep talking about capitalism/socialism, but there is no way to disprove most of this and it's a waste of time arguing about it.

 

[RealityChecker]

I'd try to avoid language like this, at it is often how White Supremacists code their words to indirectly refer to the Jews.

Well I have not seen white supremacists doing anything to hurt the Jews. If you look at Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the BLM Marxist ladies they seem to be the bigger threat to Jews and Jewish owned businesses that any white supremacists I am aware of.

Just talk about how globalization has in some ways hurt country's domestic populations, instead of making it sound like there is some Illuminati underground controlling everything.

The Illuminati existed over 200 years ago. Only conspiracy nuts talk about them being around today. The Deep State and the DC Swamp are very real cabals that enable the very rich crony capitalist to make sure they get more than their fair share of other people's money.

 

[RealityChecker]

I'm sorry man, I just don't buy into all the conspiratorial stuff. We can keep talking about capitalism/socialism, but there is no way to disprove most of this and it's a waste of time arguing about it.

So you believe the Steele dossier was reality and not something bought and paid for by the Clintons and the Democrat supporting Perkins Coie Law Firm? Even CNN now acknowledge the growing evidence showing how the corrupt Deep State colluded with the Clintons, Obama/Biden administration to smear and get FU+ISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign. More here:

Durham issues fresh round of subpoenas in his continuing probe of FBI investigation into Trump, Russia | CNN Politics

Special Counsel John Durham has issued a new set of subpoenas, including to a law firm with close ties to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign, an indication that Durham could be trying to build a broader criminal case, according to people briefed on the matter. So far, Durham's two-year probe into...

www.cnn.com

 

[Nomad4Ever]

@RealityChecker I hold plenty of government institutions in reasonable suspicion. I'm a socialist, so it should come as no surprise that I have no love for mega corporations.

But I can't do this conspiracy stuff. There is just no point arguing about it because there is no way to disprove it. Maybe everything you are saying is true. Maybe not. It's all speculative with the information we have right now.

 

[RealityChecker]

I disagree. Virtually all mainstream democrats are more socially progressive, and most are more economically progressive as well. They supported public option healthcare, $15 minimum wage, large infrastructure spending etc.

I agree most Democrats today are far more progressive than they were long ago. By mainstream I mean more traditional Democrats. JFK was once the voice of the liberal left mainstream Democrats. Today who would to the right of the few remaining mainstream Democrats like Cinema and Manchin and few in the House. Schumer, Pelosis, & Biden have all moved far to the progressive left in order to keep their power. Mainstream Republicans are not quite on the endangered species list like mainstream Democrats are today, but we are seeing many mainstream DC Swamp loving Republicans decide to not run again realizing their opposition to Trump, the Freedom Caucus, and the TEA Party and growing populist conservative wing of the Republican party now has the momentum. That is why we see a lot of mainstream Republicans being called RHINOs and becoming more popular guest on CNN than on Fox news.

How did Trump do that? He seemed mostly interested in removing regulations. If anything I feel like Bernie Sander's fits that description better.

I posted: "The one thing the very rich and Deep State actors agreed on was that Trump was way too interested in helping America's small businesses and private sector middle class and working class. Why else would they unite to do everything they could to get rid of him?" RC

Rules, regulations and the power to interpret them are what empower the Federal bureaucrats or Deep State" actors. The way you "Drain the DC Swamp" is you eliminate these rules and regulations as they are the basis of power for the "Deep State" (Bernie wants more state control and Trump wants less). Why do you think Trump was most popular among the self employed and/or small business owners and by far the most unpopular POTUS ever among unionized government workers? The very rich and big corporation hated Trump and donated far more money to the Biden campaign and Democrats hoping to keep Trump from making good on his promise to Drain the DC Swamp and role back all the specical interest rules and regulations?

 

[RealityChecker]

@RealityChecker I hold plenty of government institutions in reasonable suspicion. I'm a socialist, so it should come as no surprise that I have no love for mega corporations.

But I can't do this conspiracy stuff. There is just no point arguing about it because there is no way to disprove it. Maybe everything you are saying is true. Maybe not. It's all speculative with the information we have right now.

I see the growing power and regulation of businesses by the Federal government as the primary cause of what is hurting most private sector middle class and working class Americans. I think you see the the big corporations and the very rich as the primary problem. Back in the 1950s the Federal government controlled far less of the economy. I remember my father watching Ike Eisenhower and agreeing with him about the growing dangers of what Ike called the military industrial complex. That is because Defense spending was the biggest part of the Federal budget and it was dominated by big business that were intent on getting those big defense contracts. Just as big business corrupted and became corrupted by the Federal government's power to hand out those contracts we see that same meme play out as the US government has taken over the healthcare and education.

If the government regulation simply made sure businesses competed fairly the way umpires and referees make sure professional sports teams compete fairly I think we could drain the DC Swamp, get rid of a lot of the corrupt Federal bureaucrats and disempower both corrupt political parties. This would enable more free enterprise, more individual liberty, and help make America a more productive country with liberty and justice for all.

 

[RealityNow]

Actually the Deep State refers a clandestine network of entrenched top Federal bureaucrats. It consists of top government bureaucrats running the various Intelligence agencies, the IRS, the justice department, the State Dept., and other governmental entities. How does it work? Well its clandestine operation to first smear Trump as a Russian agent or Putin Puppet, and spy on the Trump campaign using the phony "Steele Dossier" created, rubber stamped by the FISA court, and then failing to defeat Trump they then used it to get a Special Counsel appointed in hopes of undermining and hopefully impeach Trump. Was that not a clandestine operation of top Federal bureaucrats?

SPIN... !!!! ..... you simply can't see beyond the obsession you have about Trump.
If there is any such thing as a "Deep State" it would certainly be the Right Winger Confederate Idealist, who have been trying to attack the Government within for more than 150 yrs. They saturated themselves in every branch and have tried to break or dismantle anything that would thwart their agenda. They have played the game of Jump from one party to the next trying to confound people, and for the past 50+ yrs they have embedded themselves within Republicanism. They attack Regulatory Governance, they attack anything that is designed to assist, benefit people and then in Jan.2021 tried to enact a Coup D'etat.

Why would top Federal bureaucrats seek to undermine politicians who sought to reform the Federal bureaucracies? Simple efforts to undermine their influence and ability to control the flow of money the Deep State actors see as a threat to their ability to enrich themselves while catering to the special interests of the very rich and big businesses. So any politicians seeking to "Drain the Swamp" or reduce the size and power of the Federal bureaucrats they perceive as a threat to the system they personally are empowered and enriched by. The ability to keep the money flowing through government bureaucracies to the politically connected "special interest" of big businesses and the very rich owners must be defended by these top Federal bureaucrats against some outsider who wants to undermine the corruption that is the DC Swamp.

Nope again, Ronald Reagan, set out to undermine not only politicians, but to try and utilize the Federal Courts to promote his "feed the wealthy and screw the working class, and hold down minorities, women and poor whites, by and through his Federalist Society Ideas and Agenda.

Actually, most are doing far better than they would with their skills in a free market. Many get rewarded quite well when they leave their government job and get hired by some big crony capitalist to work with their lobbyists and their buddies still working in the Federal bureaucracies. The do pretty well as influence peddlers. Certainly far better the most middle class and working class Americans. Let's face it if corruption did not pay these influence peddlers well they might actually not be will to sell out the interests of most private sector Americans and cater to the more "special interests" of their very rich benefactor. Is that not how crony capitalism or corporatism works?

America has been damaged by the Contractor System to a severe degree since World War II, when they really leaned how to fleece the government; they conjoined with every other type of industry to use lobbyist to buy away the voice of the people, by buying elected politicians.
As Eisenhower did give the warning, about Military Industrial Contractors, there was the non military contractors that were fleecing the government on every other government sponsored and backed program which utilized the private industries to do the work the government need to have done.

 

[RealityNow]

What specifically is it you believe I do not understand and how is it relevant to this OP?

Actually, that is not true. Back in the 1960s I was a strong supporter of civil rights. According to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 discriminating for or against people based on race, gender, and other characteristics was outlawed one and for all.

Actually, affirmative action policies that were created by a series of POTUS's executive orders have been encouraging the systematic discrimination against white men and especially for black women more than 50 years. That is reality.

Wrong. I do not like and have always opposed discrimination based on race, ethnicity, gender or sexual identity, or country of origin. It is starting to appear you are better at creating red herring fallacies and making straw dog arguments than you are at civil debate. I suspect you are familiar with those terms but if not you can easily do a GOOGLE search. So here is my next question for you that I hope you can answer honestly.

Do you see such dishonest and irrelevant red herring arguments and straw dog fallacies as part of a civil debate?

You Said: Actually, affirmative action policies that were created by a series of POTUS's executive orders have been encouraging the systematic discrimination against white men and especially for black women more than 50 years. That is reality.

WRONG AGAIN, Affirmative Actions Policies, helped society change the system where white men had long held and promoted a system where they give themselves, First Opportunity, First Option, First Access, First Benefit, and First Considered. They expected to Thrown the scraps of what they did not want, to black people, women, and poor whites, and for 100's of years white men had no concern to change the system to be fair and equitable to all.
Now, that society is taking the Rollers off that White Male Steam Roller. Telling them, to "get in line like everyone else" and stop expecting that because he is white and male that he should be considered before any and all others. Society is no longer letting white men only create criteria to a convoluted level, to thwart the accessibility and selection of none white (male) people. Now, the white men are angry because he does not get front row center in everything. Now, the white man want to call it discrimination when he can't get the first choice, first options and first access and first benefit which he had for 100's of years! During those 100's of years, he did not care or even think to care that his actions were biased, unfair and fully unbalanced when it came to non white men, heck he even did not care to consider the white woman, because his concepts was based on white male dominance in everything!.

They were so ate up with that craziness, it took policy changes to integrate the military, it took laws to integrate the schools and it took and Act of Congress to end Jim Crow Segregationist Madness. Still, as we've seen over the past 4 yrs of Trump... white men fighting because they can't fathom living in a society where they have to compete on equal terms with all other American People

 

[RealityChecker]

SPIN... !!!! ..... you simply can't see beyond the obsession you have about Trump.
If there is any such thing as a "Deep State" it would certainly be the Right Winger Confederate Idealist, who have been trying to attack the Government within for more than 150 yrs. They saturated themselves in every branch and have tried to break or dismantle anything that would thwart their agenda. They have played the game of Jump from one party to the next trying to confound people, and for the past 50+ yrs they have embedded themselves within Republicanism. They attack Regulatory Governance, they attack anything that is designed to assist, benefit people and then in Jan.2021 tried to enact a Coup D'etat.

You offer no evidence that anything I stated was false. Your claim that the Deep State is controlled by "Right Winger Confederate Idealist" seems a tad conspiratorial. I have never even heard of this supposed group you claim are controlling the Deep State. Seems patently absurd, but if you have some verifiable credible evidence I would be happy to check it out. Absent any evidence you are starting to make claims that appear out of sync with reality.

Nope again, Ronald Reagan, set out to undermine not only politicians, but to try and utilize the Federal Courts to promote his "feed the wealthy and screw the working class, and hold down minorities, women and poor whites, by and through his Federalist Society Ideas and Agenda.

No idea there was a point there. At least the Federalist Society is real but I have seen no credible evidence they are trying to screw the working class and hold down minorities, women and poor whites. Do you have any verifiable evidence that your claim is not just some dubious cons[piracy theory?

America has been damaged by the Contractor System to a severe degree since World War II, when they really leaned how to fleece the government; they conjoined with every other type of industry to use lobbyist to buy away the voice of the people, by buying elected politicians.
As Eisenhower did give the warning, about Military Industrial Contractors, there was the non military contractors that were fleecing the government on every other government sponsored and backed program which utilized the private industries to do the work the government need to have done.

So perhaps we agree on this point that big businesses are getting rich with the help of corrupt Federal bureaucrats and the lobbyists who work out deals behind closed doors with corrupt politicians (usually of both parties). Can we agree that it has largely been American's working class and private sector who have been fleeced by our big corrupt Federal government?

 

[RealityNow]

You offer no evidence that anything I stated was false. Your claim that the Deep State is controlled by "Right Winger Confederate Idealist" seems a tad conspiratorial. I have never even heard of this supposed group you claim are controlling the Deep State. Seems patently absurd, but if you have some verifiable credible evidence I would be happy to check it out. Absent any evidence you are starting to make claims that appear out of sync with reality.

I offer about as much evidence as you do... with regard to there "being" a Deep State. But I do know that Right Winger have consistently tried to dismantle many areas of Regulatory Governance Policies and Statues, I do know that Right Wing Republicans have fought against any programs that is designed to help citizens, and I do know that Right Wingers have tried to do everything to bust upon and stop the expanse of Unions, I do know that Right Wingers have fought against the EPA, and I do know that Right Wingers have fought against improving and making College Accessible through their fight against returning Community Colleges to the low to no cost it was before Ronald Reagan screwed with it, and the same goes for State Universities, I do know that Right Wingers have fought every legislation that has ever been proposed for Universal Health Care.

No idea there was a point there. At least the Federalist Society is real but I have seen no credible evidence they are trying to screw the working class and hold down minorities, women and poor whites. Do you have any verifiable evidence that your claim is not just some dubious cons[piracy theory?

The Federalist Society was created by Right Wing Ideology of Ronald Reagan Era Administration, that same group has passed the madness of claiming Industry as Person, and surely the list can be enlarged but, why waste my time listing all that can be researched, to show the history of their actions and decisions.

So perhaps we agree on this point that big businesses are getting rich with the help of corrupt Federal bureaucrats and the lobbyists who work out deals behind closed doors with corrupt politicians (usually of both parties). Can we agree that it has largely been American's working class and private sector who have been fleeced by our big corrupt Federal government?

We likely differ when it comes to outlining corruption. I place the blame on people for electing people who don't have ethics to the level to respect The Preamble, and I've yet to even hear a politician speak of the value and principles of The Preamble.

 

[Lloyd Christmas]

It seems that it is very hard to differentiate between reality and fantasy for many who identify themselves as being on the progressive left. Progressive left zealots appear to have the same brainwashed mindset as the deluded followers of religious cults, healing cults, quacks, and put their trust or faith in con artists like Bernie Madoff. They not hard to expose as zealots because they know they cannot explain why they believe what their dubious ideas. Those who dare question their vision of some utopian reality are quickly seen as the enemy. They seek to silence (or worse) anyone who dares question any of their dubious ideas and reject any and all evidence that conflict with their "vision" of reality.

Yet more moronic right wing projection.

Every thread on this forum is liberals, backed with facts, destroying the nonsense the right tries to play off as fact. The right posts a comment like its fact, then deflects when people ask for evidence. Then repeat it. you don't have any facts. people that claim all of media, education, universities, science, is biased against them except Fox, shows who is the zealot, who live in fantasy land.

It's proven over and over again on every forum. Project away

View attachment 67356465
Let's see now: election results denial, climate change denial, women's rights to their bodies denial, lapping at the heels of Trump, demanding audits, STORMING THE CAPITOL, believing the Dems are running a pedophile ring, that Jewish bankers (aka the Globalists) are running the world, moaning and groaning about censorship from privately owned social media outlets, replacement theory, Qanon, Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, Incels (all Rightwing groups btw) are all NOT fantasies? Right?

But thanks for the laughs, best satire I have read all week.

They are really embarrassing. absolutely no effort goes into their lame trolling attempts.

 

[RealityChecker]

Yet more moronic right wing projection.

Look another unsubstantiated opinion that confirms the OP.

Every thread on this forum is liberals, backed with facts, destroying the nonsense the right tries to play off as fact. The right posts a comment like its fact, then deflects when people ask for evidence. Then repeat it. you don't have any facts. people that claim all of media, education, universities, science, is biased against them except Fox, shows who is the zealot, who live in fantasy land.

Aside from Nomad4Ever no one on the progressive left provided any evidence to support their political ideas. Looks like faith in a dubious ideology to me.

It's proven over and over again on every forum. Project away

That is an unsubstantiated opinion. Your faith it is reality is more evidence the OP is in sync with reality

They are really embarrassing. absolutely no effort goes into their lame trolling attempts.

No verifiable evidence or logic goes into any of your comments that shows you are not interested in civil debate with anyone who questions your devotion to Marxist-inspired ideology. Faith is be definition an unquestioned belief. Those who stop asking questions are not seeking truth or reality.

 

[RAMOSS]

So you believe the Steele dossier was reality and not something bought and paid for by the Clintons and the Democrat supporting Perkins Coie Law Firm? Even CNN now acknowledge the growing evidence showing how the corrupt Deep State colluded with the Clintons, Obama/Biden administration to smear and get FU+ISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign. More here:

Durham issues fresh round of subpoenas in his continuing probe of FBI investigation into Trump, Russia | CNN Politics

Special Counsel John Durham has issued a new set of subpoenas, including to a law firm with close ties to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign, an indication that Durham could be trying to build a broader criminal case, according to people briefed on the matter. So far, Durham's two-year probe into...

www.cnn.com

Yep, still doing his witch hunt, trying to get enough evidence to actually get a case against Sussman.