Why shouldn't the U.S. become bilingual?

[Doc Howl]

Who do you speak these languages to?

Non-rednecks?:monkey

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Making the point that America has fallen behind the rest of the world as far as bilingualism goes. It's clear that you purposely ignored him saying that Europeans speak many languages while Americans for the most part don't.

no i didn't i clearly indicated in this very thread why that is and the need, also mentioned that most also speak ENGLISH.... reveiw the thread.

In other words EVEN though you are exatcly what he said more Americans should be like(bilingual) you think he'd be embarrassed that you indeed are bilingual? Now I'm embarrassed of you.

nope. he just phrased a very poor example. I am simply pointing that out.

You purposely misunderstood it. Everybody got it. Except you and well those other Americans who think they benefit from pushing ridiculous Quebec styled laws.

I did? what statment did I misunderstand?

Wife & daughter(though it's so far been mostly Spanish), wife's family(Spanish), clients(French), friend(in Maine, Vermont, Canada and France) etc etc.

see need.


now move yourself to idaho up north by yourself and become an accountant. how useful will your spanish be?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Non-rednecks?:monkey

So only rednecks are not bilingual?

 

[Doc Howl]

now move yourself to idaho up north by yourself and become an accountant. how useful will your spanish be?

Surprisingly useful. 9.5% of Idaho is Hispanic.

Idaho QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

 

[Doc Howl]

So only rednecks are not bilingual?

No se, Senor babossa.

 

[Zyphlin]

A second language would likely lead to a number of people getting into jobs as translators for corporations and the government, as a resume enhancer for local jobs, and other such things using it.

Those that end up not having a huge interest in it and not using it would likely become rusty on it....just like most people are with things they learn in elementry school. While a humerous way of presenting it...go watch "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" and you'll see how much people rarely use, nor need, to remember stuff they learned in elementry school...let alone even middle and high

 

[Hatuey]

no i didn't i clearly indicated in this very thread why that is and the need, also mentioned that most also speak ENGLISH.... reveiw the thread.

Prove it. Most speak a second language. That most speak English is false. At least in the European Union where only 38% speak enough English to have a conversation.

nope. he just phrased a very poor example. I am simply pointing that out.

Seems to me like everybody got it except you.

I did? what statment did I misunderstand?

The part where he wasn't so much talking about 'merci beaucoup' but us falling behind the rest of the world on bilingualism.

now move yourself to idaho up north by yourself and become an accountant.

:rofl what ridiculousness. Should we not teach history because the majority of our population is not made of historians? Should we not physics because the majority of the population isn't made of physicists? Should we not have gym classes because 66% of Americans are overweight? It seems to me like the majority of our population isn't made up of any one group of people so it's pretty much worthless to have most of what is taught in school.

how useful will your spanish be?

Pretty useful considering it's the language my wife and I speak at home and it's the language I speak with my wife's family(California)

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

A second language would likely lead to a number of people getting into jobs as translators for corporations and the government, as a resume enhancer for local jobs, and other such things using it.

how many jobs of this type are available compared to the total population of schoolchilderen?

What is the current shortage now?

Please provide links and evidence of this immediate need.

Those that end up not having a huge interest in it and not using it would likely become rusty on it....just like most people are with things they learn in elementry school. While a humerous way of presenting it...go watch "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" and you'll see how much people rarely use, nor need, to remember stuff they learned in elementry school...let alone even middle and high

My point exactly. The majority would fall into this category doing little to assuage Obama's embarrasment of you and I. This has been my "narrow illogical' point all along.

 

[Hatuey]

My point exactly. The majority would fall into this category doing little to assuage Obama's embarrasment of you and I. This has been my "narrow illogical' point all along.

In other words it's not a problem for you that a 30 year old can't outsmart a 5th grader. America is doomed.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Prove it. Most speak a second language. That most speak English is false. At least in the European Union where only 38% speak enough English to have a conversation.

38%? link?

In the European survey, English was identified by 34 percent of respondents as their second language, followed by German which was a second language for 12 percent, then French which was spoken as a second language by 11 percent, according to the survey.

National Association for Bilingual Education - Press Room

The most common 2nd language is english.


Also I think most schools in eruope teach english, no? I thought I read that somewhere. if true, even with a need they can muster 34%

Seems to me like everybody got it except you.

Then you are not paying attention. I am no the only one who took issue with it. Go ahead google it.

The part where he wasn't so much talking about 'merci beaucoup' but us falling behind the rest of the world on bilingualism.

So he used a poor example to bash americans as embarrasments to what shame us into all learning different 2nd languages?

:rofl what ridiculousness. Should we not teach history because the majority of our population is not made of historians? Should we not physics because the majority of the population isn't made of physicists? Should we not have gym classes because 66% of Americans are overweight? It seems to me like the majority of our population isn't made up of any one group of people so it's pretty much worthless to have most of what is taught in school.

Fallacy extremist logic.

Pretty useful considering it's the language my wife and I speak at home and it's the language I speak with my wife's family(California)

Again you have a personal reason, a need. Most do not.

 

[Doc Howl]

Again you have a personal reason, a need. Most do not.

So what? Most people don't need to know what the capital of Norway is, and we still teach geography.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

So what? Most people don't need to know what the capital of Norway is, and we still teach geography.

I will ask this what i though easy question but provin most elusive:


How does this temper Obama's embarrasment given that by your example we would not reach that threashold of "bilingualism"?

 

[Doc Howl]

I will ask this what i though easy question but provin most elusive:


How does this temper Obama's embarrasment given that by your example we would not reach that threashold of "bilingualism"?

It's no use asking me to defend that 4th amendment-hating jackass.

 

[Hatuey]

38%? link?

In the European survey, English was identified by 34 percent of respondents as their second language, followed by German which was a second language for 12 percent, then French which was spoken as a second language by 11 percent, according to the survey.

National Association for Bilingual Education - Press Room

The most common 2nd language is english.

You just verified 34%(4% off!). Far from 'most speak english'.

Also I think most schools in eruope teach english, no? I thought I read that somewhere. if true, even with a need they can muster 34%

Definition of most according to Websters :

Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online

1 : greatest in quantity, extent, or degree <the most ability> 2 : the majority of <most people>

Then you are not paying attention. I am no the only one who took issue with it. Go ahead google it.

Americans who are dumb enough to believe we aren't falling behind the rest of the world in regards to bilingualism.

So he used a poor example to bash americans as embarrasments to what shame us into all learning different 2nd languages?

Fallacy extremist logic.

Do you disagree that the majority of this country aren't physicists or for that matter deal with the textbook knowledge of physics given in schools therefor it should no longer be taught?

Again you have a personal reason, a need. Most do not.

I had no personal reason to learn the table of elements. Most do not. Should it no longer be taught in schools?

 

[Zyphlin]

how many jobs of this type are available compared to the total population of schoolchilderen?

What is the current shortage now?

Please provide links and evidence of this immediate need.

I don't know exactly. I don't know of any stats of it. I do know that most companies that deal abroad look for translators. I do know from my experience working in the government those that speak foreign languages are looked upon favorably, espicially in law enforcement.

And again, I would argue common sense would say as its likely as much as people that need to know the 19th president or what an igneous rock is. To go with your own thing, show me where everything we learn in school starting from low grades is used in the job market?

My point exactly. The majority would fall into this category doing little to assuage Obama's embarrasment of you and I. This has been my "narrow illogical' point all along.

And I agree. I'm embarrassed that we've sunk so low that some people in this country feel its "impossible" to do something as simple as starting foreign language education in elementary school. That we are behind other industrial countries not just in this, but in many educational things, when we claim (and I believe are) the greatest country in the world. Look at all the things we've accomplished in our relatively short time in this world, and for some to assert that its impossible to teach foreign languages at a lower grade that is more advantageous to the learning process boggles my mind.

I believe in American Exceptionalism, and I believe we reached the high point that we are at because at a time there was a population that believed anything was possible if we put our minds to it and sought to be the best and brightest. I believe we should still be striving to do that, to remain at the top.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

I don't know exactly. I don't know of any stats of it. I do know that most companies that deal abroad look for translators. I do know from my experience working in the government those that speak foreign languages are looked upon favorably, espicially in law enforcement.

And again, I would argue common sense would say as its likely as much as people that need to know the 19th president or what an igneous rock is. To go with your own thing, show me where everything we learn in school starting from low grades is used in the job market?

How can we argue for a need when we don't know the demand??

And I agree. I'm embarrassed that we've sunk so low that some people in this country feel its "impossible" to do something as simple as starting foreign language education in elementary school. That we are behind other industrial countries not just in this, but in many educational things, when we claim (and I believe are) the greatest country in the world. Look at all the things we've accomplished in our relatively short time in this world, and for some to assert that its impossible to teach foreign languages at a lower grade that is more advantageous to the learning process boggles my mind.

Who said this? My whole point is that Obama talks of his embarrasment at our lack of bilingualism. My point is that due to geography and lack of overall need among the majority of the population no matter how much schooling we have we will not become bilingual especially by government fiat.


Look at quebec, hell even france. They are passing laws to keep thier language spoken, is bilingualism the way of the future?

I believe in American Exceptionalism, and I believe we reached the high point that we are at because at a time there was a population that believed anything was possible if we put our minds to it and sought to be the best and brightest. I believe we should still be striving to do that, to remain at the top.

I agree. I don't think learning french though is a cog in this wheel of progress. It may befor some. But artificially forcing people to learn a language.... FOR the sake of having a higher percentage rate of bilingual people is not an answer.

 

[jamesrage]

Due to the recent outrage at Obama's criticism of the U.S. wanting to enforce 'unilinguism', I've decided to ask the question : Why shouldn't the U.S. be bilingual?

Because English is the language of the land.I do not give a rats ass if the French,Germans who ever else knows english, that is their business.Our citizens should not be forced to learn another language just to accommodate lazy inconsiderate ****s who refuse to learn or speak the language of the land.If they want to speak spanish then they need to go to a spanish speaking country.Nor should we be forcing people to learn another language so that one day they will be able to go to Germany or France and buy souvenirs while speaking So we shouldn't force them to learn a language with the hopes that one day they go to another country to buy souvenirs while speaking French to a cashier in France. If someone wants to learn another language on their own then good for them,however it should not be forced on the rest of us.If we make this make this country bilingual then where does it stop,do we make ourselves multilingual and add a new language every time we get a new group of immigrants legal or illegal who want to be inconsiderate ****s who refuse to learn our language?

 

[rivrrat]

Because English is the language of the land.I do not give a rats ass if the French,Germans who ever else knows english, that is their business.Our citizens should not be forced to learn another language just to accommodate lazy inconsiderate ****s who refuse to learn or speak the language of the land.If they want to speak spanish then they need to go to a spanish speaking country.Nor should we be forcing people to learn another language so that one day they will be able to go to Germany or France and buy souvenirs while speaking So we shouldn't force them to learn a language with the hopes that one day they go to another country to buy souvenirs while speaking French to a cashier in France. If someone wants to learn another language on their own then good for them,however it should not be forced on the rest of us.If we make this make this country bilingual then where does it stop,do we make ourselves multilingual and add a new language every time we get a new group of immigrants legal or illegal who want to be inconsiderate ****s who refuse to learn our language?

It has nothing to do with accomodating immigrants. Shame you're unable to see that.

 

[rivrrat]

How can we argue for a need when we don't know the demand??

Every job I've ever held had a need for multilingual employees. From waitressing, to river guiding, to EMT, to Ski Patrol, to professional photography, to IT work, and even the job market I'm currently considering switching into - it *requires* being multilingual in order to compete in the business. What's that, you may ask? Professional SCUBA diving.

The demand is there. It's all over the place. If you want to compete, you need to speak more than just english.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Every job I've ever held had a need for multilingual employees. From waitressing, to river guiding, to EMT, to Ski Patrol, to professional photography, to IT work, and even the job market I'm currently considering switching into - it *requires* being multilingual in order to compete in the business. What's that, you may ask? Professional SCUBA diving.

Uhm which language did you need to learn? How helpful would it be if you learned the wrong one?


And you don't NEED to be bilingual for most all of those at all. that is just silly.

The demand is there. It's all over the place. If you want to compete, you need to speak more than just english.

Hmm. I speak just english. I have multinational customers, and I do obscenley well (so well I can waste gobs of time here with all of you) so my empiracal data contratdicts yours.

 

[jamesrage]

It has nothing to do with accomodating immigrants. Shame you're unable to see that.

It shouldn't, but when states and cities start having bilingual forms,schools,ballots and so on it has everything to do with accommodating immigrants.Shame on you for being dishonest about that fact.

 

[rivrrat]

It shouldn't, but when states and cities start having bilingual forms,schools,ballots and so on it has everything to do with accommodating immigrants.Shame on you for being dishonest about that fact.

They should not have bilingual forms, and that's not what this thread is about. So who's being dishonest?

 

[Thorgasm]

Because English is the language of the land.I do not give a rats ass if the French,Germans who ever else knows english, that is their business.Our citizens should not be forced to learn another language just to accommodate lazy inconsiderate ****s who refuse to learn or speak the language of the land.If they want to speak spanish then they need to go to a spanish speaking country.Nor should we be forcing people to learn another language so that one day they will be able to go to Germany or France and buy souvenirs while speaking So we shouldn't force them to learn a language with the hopes that one day they go to another country to buy souvenirs while speaking French to a cashier in France. If someone wants to learn another language on their own then good for them,however it should not be forced on the rest of us.If we make this make this country bilingual then where does it stop,do we make ourselves multilingual and add a new language every time we get a new group of immigrants legal or illegal who want to be inconsiderate ****s who refuse to learn our language?

What's with people not using the space bar between sentences? Is this some secret protest I haven't heard of. For someone who is so concerned about English, you would think that you would follow the protocol.:roll:

 

[rivrrat]

Uhm which language did you need to learn? How helpful would it be if you learned the wrong one?

If everyone was bi or multilingual in ANY language it would have been helpful. As it were, we often had to go out and FIND translators. Would have been so much easier if we all just spoke another language and more than likely, one of us would have spoken the one needed.

And you don't NEED to be bilingual for most all of those at all. that is just silly.

I can specify multiple situations where it was necessary to either have someone on staff who spoke the language, or having to hire/find a translator. So yes, it was needed. Languages included were German, French, Japanese, Sign Language, Spanish, and Chinese.

Sign language is significantly important.

As far as the Pro diver goes, the employers don't care much which language you know, as long as you know something other than English. Because it decreases the chance they will lose customers due to not having someone on staff who can communicate with them.

In my current IT work, sure.. I can find plenty of jobs that don't *require* I speak another language. But there are a ****load more I could get (and get paid better and be in better locations - such as abroad) if I could speak another language. Japanese and Chinese are common.

In the IT security work I'm looking into, Arabic is an extremely handy language to know. I really do want to learn this since it will increase my income potential 3 fold. At least.

Hmm. I speak just english. I have multinational customers, and I do obscenley well (so well I can waste gobs of time here with all of you) so my empiracal data contratdicts yours.

Good for you. You do okay by limiiting yourself. I wish to do better by expanding my potential.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

If everyone was bi or multilingual in ANY language it would have been helpful. As it were, we often had to go out and FIND translators. Would have been so much easier if we all just spoke another language and more than likely, one of us would have spoken the one needed.


I can specify multiple situations where it was necessary to either have someone on staff who spoke the language, or having to hire/find a translator. So yes, it was needed. Languages included were German, French, Japanese, Sign Language, Spanish, and Chinese.

Sign language is significantly important.

As far as the Pro diver goes, the employers don't care much which language you know, as long as you know something other than English. Because it decreases the chance they will lose customers due to not having someone on staff who can communicate with them.

In my current IT work, sure.. I can find plenty of jobs that don't *require* I speak another language. But there are a ****load more I could get (and get paid better and be in better locations - such as abroad) if I could speak another language. Japanese and Chinese are common.

In the IT security work I'm looking into, Arabic is an extremely handy language to know. I really do want to learn this since it will increase my income potential 3 fold. At least.

What you are failing to grasp is that you are looking to get into a highly specialized and small field. Most people do not need to learn a second language and knowing one does not guarantee you that you are going to do well.

Good for you. You do okay by limiiting yourself. I wish to do better by expanding my potential.

I do more than ok. Did I meantion "obscenely" well? So much so I have to hire my wife and file seperatley and do some creative accounting to maybe just maybe reduce the damage Obama wants to do to my pocket?

This of course does not even include my investments.


I speak only one language. If I need a translator. (and its rare that I do, as my international clients make it a point to know english) I can hire the services of an agency.

These translators don't make what my techs make but thier non bilingual boss does.