Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?[W:1258]

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

That is even less realistic. What if the business loses money for a quarter - does each worker then get paid less?

Exactly, we had record numbers of small businesses declaring bankruptcy in the last 6 years but that doesn't resonate with liberals.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

That is even less realistic. What if the business loses money for a quarter - does each worker then get paid less?

No, not using short term quarterly measures.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

argument for not dumping welfare.

Who is dumping welfare? How about dumping the waste, fraud, and abuse and actually using tax dollars more efficiently? How about holding politicians accountable for their waste and the 3.9 trillion dollar govt we have today? With all that money being spent why are there over 100 million Americans on some form of taxpayer assistance?

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

Very simple for you, isn't it. Come back in a few years when you get some experience and tell me how your attitude has changed? You have no idea what you are talking about. More money at the bottom is going to be paid by the consumers in higher prices and as stated which you ignored, govt. contracts and union contracts are tied to minimum wage and the percentage increases.

No, I explained that it doesn't have to be that way. Workers at the bottom can also share in the piece of the pie without pushing more money into the system. The problem now is they are getting left out while some at the top are taking it instead.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

If what you are looking for is a dollar amount, "The value of the minimum wage has fallen sharply over the past forty years. In 1968, for example, the federal minimum wage was $1.60 per hour, which translates to approximately $10.70 in 2013 dollars." As I already stated in another post, I think it best to have the people have incentives taken away before they will be willing to fight for wages to keep up. Call it human nature.

What is the minimum wage in MA? You don't seem to understand that MA doesn't pay the Federal Minimum wage nor do a lot of states

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

What is the minimum wage in MA? You don't seem to understand that MA doesn't pay the Federal Minimum wage nor do a lot of states

It was 8.00 an hour but just got voted to raise to 10.50.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

No, I explained that it doesn't have to be that way. Workers at the bottom can also share in the piece of the pie without pushing more money into the system. The problem now is they are getting left out while some at the top are taking it instead.

I am waiting for your explanation as to what happens when a company loses money? You don't seem to have a grasp on who pays minimum wage which comes probably from your youth and inexperience. Large companies don't pay minimum wage and provide benefits. You have no idea what you are talking about but think that because you want private companies to pay more money everyone benefits. Find out how many businesses went bankrupt the last 6 years? How does your wage tied to profits work in those cases?

 

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

It was 8.00 an hour but just got voted to raise to 10.50.

So then why do you need the Federal Govt. to raise wages in all states when the states have that authority?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

So tell us what country you want this country to be more like? You always focus on a living wage but never define it? Where does spending play a role in that living wage? I spent 35 years in the business world and probably pay more in taxes and give more to charity than you make. You have no problem with the 3.9 trillion dollar govt. and why hasn't that solved the problem?

I have no doubt that you have and do, and good on you. But your experience in the business world does not mean that you automatically have a thorough understanding of what makes an economy prosper on a macroscopic level. There's business titans (with far more experience and economic wherewithal than you) of all political stripes and economic theories, and sometimes their opinions are diametrically opposed...which means somebody's gotta be wrong.

Again, conservative economic theory holds that the economic system that we and all first-world democracies have is doomed to the economic dustbin of history, even though that economic system is the very same economic system that is working better, is more prosperous than any other economic system in human history.

If conservative economic theory does not explain the success of first-world democracies but instead holds that those first-world democracies should economically devolve to economic marginalization, then don'tcha think it might just be time to ask yourself why conservative economic theory does not explain the success of first-world nations?

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

I am waiting for your explanation as to what happens when a company loses money? You don't seem to have a grasp on who pays minimum wage which comes probably from your youth and inexperience. Large companies don't pay minimum wage and provide benefits. You have no idea what you are talking about but think that because you want private companies to pay more money everyone benefits. Find out how many businesses went bankrupt the last 6 years? How does your wage tied to profits work in those cases?

Again, twiddling money from the top to the bottom won't put a place out of business.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

They would if the govt. would remove the cap on charitable giving. we have a 3.9 trillion dollar govt. and the problem is worse so why are you and others supporting giving them more power by giving them more money? Where does personal responsibility rest in your world? I really feel sorry for this country when I read posts like yours, James Hill, rabbit, skyhunter, and the rest of the entitlement crowd. Liberalism is a disease that is destroying incentive and this country

We have a deficit caused by two wars your side brought us into, we have deficit from lowering tax rates, and we have defects caused by the declining value of wages in this country resulting in less taxable income. Personal responsibility rests on idiots who voted leaders who decided free trade was good policy and that shutting down our forests and mines was a great idea. That's where it rests.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

So we should be more like other capitalistic countries like Hong Kong where they live like this -->

And their life is worse than homeless here in America how?

Guy, there are some here who have seen worse poverty than I have, but if you think that's poverty, you ain't one of them.

So...again, why is it that high taxes, strong regulation, and a significant social safety net (including a moderate minimum wage) are a surefire way to the economic dustbin of history, why have the first-world democracies remained on top of the world's economic heap for 50 years?

 

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

I have no doubt that you have and do, and good on you. But your experience in the business world does not mean that you automatically have a thorough understanding of what makes an economy prosper on a macroscopic level. There's business titans (with far more experience and economic wherewithal than you) of all political stripes and economic theories, and sometimes their opinions are diametrically opposed...which means somebody's gotta be wrong.

Again, conservative economic theory holds that the economic system that we and all first-world democracies have is doomed to the economic dustbin of history, even though that economic system is the very same economic system that is working better, is more prosperous than any other economic system in human history.

If conservative economic theory does not explain the success of first-world democracies but instead holds that those first-world democracies should economically devolve to economic marginalization, then don'tcha think it might just be time to ask yourself why conservative economic theory does not explain the success of first-world nations?

The difference between you and me is I have the book smarts along with the street smarts that apparently you lack. I am waiting for the country you want this country to be more like? The grass is always greener someplace else until you get there and yet that doesn't stop people like you from making wild ass claims. Your ignorance of how this economy works is staggering. Get out into the private sector or better yet, since you are so smart start your own business and pay workers as much as you think they deserve. Let's see how long you last.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

And their life is worse than homeless here in America how?

Guy, there are some here who have seen worse poverty than I have, but if you think that's poverty, you ain't one of them.

So...again, why is it that high taxes, strong regulation, and a significant social safety net (including a moderate minimum wage) are a surefire way to the economic dustbin of history, why have the first-world democracies remained on top of the world's economic heap for 50 years?

Yeah, that govt. housing around the nation is incredible and outstanding. 3.9 trillion dollar govt and still not enough?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

No, not using short term quarterly measures.

Here is reality. The business owner makes the investment and thus takes the risk (profit/loss), the employees simply work for their agreed wages/salary. You do not become some sort of "partner" simply because you got hired on by the boss/owner. If I own the building, equipment and inventory then I am not about to let some employee say that they deserve X% of my business profits simply because I offered them a job.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

We have a deficit caused by two wars your side brought us into, we have deficit from lowering tax rates, and we have defects caused by the declining value of wages in this country resulting in less taxable income. Personal responsibility rests on idiots who voted leaders who decided free trade was good policy and that shutting down our forests and mines was a great idea. That's where it rests.

That is your opinion, we have a 17.3 trillion dollar debt and the wars cost 1.6 trillion over 10 years. The Iraq War ended with the status of Forces Agreement in November 2008 and yet Obama has added 6.7 trillion to the debt in less than 6 years, more debt that any other President in history. You buy what you are told but the answers are at the U.S. Treasury Dept, not liberal rags.

 

[Slyhunter]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

And their life is worse than homeless here in America how?

Guy, there are some here who have seen worse poverty than I have, but if you think that's poverty, you ain't one of them.

So...again, why is it that high taxes, strong regulation, and a significant social safety net (including a moderate minimum wage) are a surefire way to the economic dustbin of history, why have the first-world democracies remained on top of the world's economic heap for 50 years?

Dude you are missing the point. The pictures I showed of Hong Kong and Japan was not how the homeless lived. Those folks all have jobs. The homeless has it worse. And soon we'll be just like that if we both get rid of welfare and the minimum wage at the same time. Faster if we open the border and pass out working visas to anyone who wants one.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

So then why do you need the Federal Govt. to raise wages in all states when the states have that authority?

MA is not a high poverty state. Consequently, those states without minimum wage laws do have the higher poverty rates in the country. We all pay for that....

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

Here is reality. The business owner makes the investment and thus takes the risk (profit/loss), the employees simply work for their agreed wages/salary. You do not become some sort of "partner" simply because you got hired on by the boss/owner. If I own the building, equipment and inventory then I am not about to let some employee say that they deserve X% of my business profits simply because I offered them a job.

Where talking about multinationals that have abused the safety nets.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

MA is not a high poverty state. Consequently, those states without minimum wage laws do have the higher poverty rates in the country. We all pay for that....

You really don't understand poverty, dude. Poverty comes from income AND expenses. You ignore the expense part. People can live in low cost states like TX on a lot less than they can in the socialist republic of MA. where entitlement is a way of life. You better change your attitude as well as your location

 

[ludin]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

I have no doubt that you have and do, and good on you. But your experience in the business world does not mean that you automatically have a thorough understanding of what makes an economy prosper on a macroscopic level. There's business titans (with far more experience and economic wherewithal than you) of all political stripes and economic theories, and sometimes their opinions are diametrically opposed...which means somebody's gotta be wrong.

so what experience do you have to say that he is wrong? i think business people and people that run businesses have a far greater grasp of what it takes to make an economy run that people that sit in a building miles away that have
1. never ran a business in their life.
2. have never had to actually make a payroll
3. yet get to try and dictate what businesses should be paying people based on their opinion rather than experience and actually having to build a business.

Again, conservative economic theory holds that the economic system that we and all first-world democracies have is doomed to the economic dustbin of history, even though that economic system is the very same economic system that is working better, is more prosperous than any other economic system in human history.

you have no idea what conservative economic theory is. just whatever propaganda that you have read from whatever leftwing liberal blog that you found.
capitalism is the economic system that has bought more economic wealth to more people than any other economic system in human history.

capitalism is all about bringing a product or skill to the market and getting the best value that you can from your experience.

If conservative economic theory does not explain the success of first-world democracies but instead holds that those first-world democracies should economically devolve to economic marginalization, then don'tcha think it might just be time to ask yourself why conservative economic theory does not explain the success of first-world nations?

Since conservative economic theory would be capitalism then yes it does explain a great deal. the fact is if you don't bring good skills or product then well you don't get paid a whole lot. that is just a fact of life.

what you and other people fail to realize when you try and push these minimum wage routine is that you price people out of the market. you make it harder for them to get jobs.

What you also don't realize is that economies scale. which means if you pass your $15 an hour wage then everyone making that or more needs to have their pay increased as well. which means increased costs and possibly jobs across the board.

by the time it is all over you haven't really improved anything or have suffered a net loss.

also you have failed to define conservative economic theory and i doubt that you really know what you are talking about.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

The difference between you and me is I have the book smarts along with the street smarts that apparently you lack. I am waiting for the country you want this country to be more like? The grass is always greener someplace else until you get there and yet that doesn't stop people like you from making wild ass claims. Your ignorance of how this economy works is staggering. Get out into the private sector or better yet, since you are so smart start your own business and pay workers as much as you think they deserve. Let's see how long you last.

Ah. So THAT'S why conservative economic theory must be right even though it can't explain why it is that the very system it says is doomed to failure is the same system that's more successful than any other in human history! It's all because you know more than stoopid unedjimicated li'l ol' me. THAT'S why! I shoulda seen it all along!

So let me go tell the people at Costco that their business model is doomed to failure because they're paying a living wage with benefits. Let me go tell Warren Buffet he's stupid because he thinks the rich should pay more taxes. Let me go tell the most successful European nations (the ones who didn't adopt austerity measures) like Denmark where a McDonald's worker gets $21/hr that they're just months away from economic disaster. Let me go tell Australia that they're in deep economic kimchee (even though they haven't had a recession for over 20 years now). I'll tell them that they all must be wrong because "Conservative" right here on DP said so, and he's SO experienced and SO educated - and he's got "street smarts", too!

But while I'm doing all that, could you please 'splain to me why it is that conservative economic theory is right even though the very system it says is doomed to failure is the same system that's more successful than any other in human history? I'd really like for you to edjimicate stoopid li'l ol' me on that one.

 

[rabbitcaebannog]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

You really don't understand poverty, dude. Poverty comes from income AND expenses. You ignore the expense part. People can live in low cost states like TX on a lot less than they can in the socialist republic of MA. where entitlement is a way of life. You better change your attitude as well as your location

Texas has more poverty than MA.

 

[Conservative]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

Ah. So THAT'S why conservative economic theory must be right even though it can't explain why it is that the very system it says is doomed to failure is the same system that's more successful than any other in human history! It's all because you know more than stoopid unedjimicated li'l ol' me. THAT'S why! I shoulda seen it all along!

So let me go tell the people at Costco that their business model is doomed to failure because they're paying a living wage with benefits. Let me go tell Warren Buffet he's stupid because he thinks the rich should pay more taxes. Let me go tell the most successful European nations (the ones who didn't adopt austerity measures) like Denmark where a McDonald's worker gets $21/hr that they're just months away from economic disaster. Let me go tell Australia that they're in deep economic kimchee (even though they haven't had a recession for over 20 years now). I'll tell them that they all must be wrong because "Conservative" right here on DP said so, and he's SO experienced and SO educated - and he's got "street smarts", too!

But while I'm doing all that, could you please 'splain to me why it is that conservative economic theory is right even though the very system it says is doomed to failure is the same system that's more successful than any other in human history? I'd really like for you to edjimicate stoopid li'l ol' me on that one.

It really is easy spouting slogans all the time, what the hell is a living wage? Where do expenses play in the equation? Why in the hell do you believe we need higher taxes when we have a 3.9 trillion dollar govt? Where is that money going? The war in Iraq is over and yet the Obama budget was 900 billion more than the last Bush budget. You buy what you are told and reality makes you look rather stupid.

I am waiting for the country you want us to be more like and then I will be happy to explain Conservative economics that made this country so much greater except to people like you who don't have a clue as to what it takes to be successful or to make a living wage.

 

[Mycroft]

Re: Why should we subsidize Wal-Marts crappy wages?

No, BUSINESS is taking advantage of it. People need to eat and will gladly work for money but if that isn't enough to feed them, they would take food stamps over nothing. That allows people to not be so demanding at work because their basic needs got met without rocking the boat. The better option would be for people to demand higher wages through work but since that is not happening the next best thing...... people are way to compliant now a days because of fear.

It's still not the businesses taking advantage. It's the worker. The worker is the one getting the government money. Take away that government money and the worker will do what they have to to get the wage they desire.