Why Save the Fetus? [W:478]

[joko104]

Jesus clearly explained all the reasons you should kill people. Jesus traveled about demanding the imprisonment of fornicators and adulterers, and that grievous sinners should be assassinated and what sex-criminals - like homosexuals and unmarried people having sex should be imprisoned as felons.

To know who to imprison and who to murder, just ask WWJD?

Or ask Logicman, he'll tell you.

 

[choiceone]

I hadn't read the other posts yet before I responded to your comment. It makes sense now.

I'd say Tiller catching a bullet in a church and SCOTUS voting 5-3 to allow abortion are both proof that god doesn't exist. After all, if there was a god, we'd have no unwanted pregnancies or murdering scum who shoot people in His House.

SCOTUS voted 7 to 2 in RvW. It was more than just a clear majority. If we cast this in percentage terms it would be approximately 78% to 22%.

 

[calamity]

SCOTUS voted 7 to 2 in RvW. It was more than just a clear majority. If we cast this in percentage terms it would be approximately 78% to 22%.

Wow! I thought it was close vote with one judge even recusing himself. I must be getting it confused with something else.

 

[minnie616]

SCOTUS voted 7 to 2 in RvW. It was more than just a clear majority. If we cast this in percentage terms it would be approximately 78% to 22%.

Thanks for catching that. Just wanted to add that the vast majority of the Justices who decided the Roe vs Wade case were appointed by Republican presidents.

 

[choiceone]

I ridiculed something someone once said on these forums, that children conceived in rape are human garbage created in Satan's image. I ridiculed the notion because it is unfathomably immoral and it deserves ridicule. Rape is evil, but the kids are innocent.

I find it amusing that you repeatedly twist what other posters said to suit your points, as if you not capable of making your points by treating what they actually said in an objective manner. That poster did not say that "children" conceived in rape were human garbage.

First of all, that poster did not believe that embryos and fetuses were "children."

Second, that poster was expressing one sentiment of the subjective mentality of a traumatized rape victim facing the possibility of rape pregnancy as "additional injury," which pregnancy legally is in cases of rape in some US states.

In some states, the law actually says that pregnancy is "additional injury" in cases of rape. In other states, pregnancy in cases of rape is only implied to be additional injury by the fact that state law uses it to change the criminal rape charge to a more serious offense.

None of that has to do with born children traceable to a pregnancy resulting from rape unless you believe, unlike that poster, that embryos and fetuses are children.

But the fact is that an organism with a genetic code combining the chromosomes of the rapist and rape victim is an objective empirical statement that the two are one flesh, and if the victim didn't agree to marry the rapist, that organism is inconsistent with the conscious will and intention of the victim.

And that is, frankly, a good reason not to care about mere genes and organisms incapable of consciousness as exemplars of anyone's living personhood. Personhood should come from consciousness, not mere biological matter.

 

[RamFel]

Really? When and how did God do that?

When He wrote the Ten Commandments. What does Thou Shall Not Kill mean to you?

I Stupid drivel IS annoying but hardly something that makes me angry. Matter of fact very few things make me angry, as there is no upside to anger. Further more I really do not give a crap what you rather deal with.

Oh, so true! I agree with you on both counts. Stupid drivel is very annoying, and getting angry is seldom good for anything.

You need not fear my reprisal I do to know you and you certainly did not give any reasons for it. Here is a clue. Those who serve God out of fear might as well not serve Him. He seeks love not fear.

I wasn't afraid of you. But I do fear God. But remember Proverbs? Fear of the Lord is the first step to gaining wisdom.

As defined by you? No thanks, reality serves me much better.

I'm not sure what you mean. I don't define truthfulness or compassion. They were there before I came along.

I really do not think you can make that determination.

Why not? So I am to stand by while millions more are slaughtered? I think I AM qualified to make that determination. Just what are girls suffering so much that they have to kill their own?

Your blind irrational dogmatic view does.

Nothing to do with it.

Hardly surprising.

Oh, is that meant as an insult? Thanks for that. You know, when people resort to insults, then I begin to question what they perceive their facts.

You see, you are proving it again. The need to resort to meaningless political talking points underscores the absence of rational and intelligent reasoning.

That's only because they love to be seen as the compassionate ones, but in the case of abortion, it's egg on their faces.

No, like you are told to see it. There IS a difference.

There would be, if that were the case. But let me just say these things, because they are facts:

1) For the most part, there is nothing wrong with being pregnant. It is very common. It is not a disease. The baby is not an invader, or a horrible creature robbing nutrients from the girls. They should be cherished. Not stomped on, and cast into the garbage (or whatever becomes of the corpses).

2) Doctors who perform abortions are not doctors at all. Doctors heal and save lives. Not kill.

3) Abortions serve no purpose (except in very rare cases) and therefore are the stuff of horror stories, nightmares, and evil doings. No good comes from them. There is a lot of blood on a lot of hands.

4) In general, for the majority of the abortions performed, the girls that get abortions are the most selfish of all humans. They think only of themselves and not of their babies. But I worry about them because they are being lied to by abotionists.

5) abortion is clearly murder. No doubts about that at all. You can't even argue in any way that convinces anybody that it's not. The only ones that are convinced that it's not murder are abortionists.

 

[choiceone]

That's absolute nonsense.

Besides, I'm not the one advocating and defending the infanticide of the innocent unborn.

How large a pile of bloody and dismembered (aborted) babies would it take before you are finally offended? Answer the question?

Pro-choice people do not advocate or defend infanticide, because the unborn are not infants in their view. You are trying to get away with interpreting their intentions based on your way of thinking expressed in your linguistic choices. But you don't get to do that. Their way of thinking is completely unlike yours. To them, termination of a pregnancy does not even cause the death of an infant, and it certainly is not infanticide.

 

[choiceone]

Thanks for catching that. Just wanted to add that the vast majority of the Justices who decided the Roe vs Wade case were appointed by Republican presidents.

Yes. And furthermore, there were later SCOTUS decisions related to the issue of abortion, decisions that involved new court justices again and again.

The cases involved gave the court ample opportunities to revisit Roe v Wade and overturn it if it wanted to, with new justices. But Roe v Wade was not overturned.

These cases and decisions, despite weakening some aspects of Roe v Wade, ultimately gave it protection from being overturned, in that courts with different justices repeatedly affirmed the core of that decision, so that much precedent bolstered it under stare decisis.

 

[prometeus]

When He wrote the Ten Commandments. What does Thou Shall Not Kill mean to you?

Kill is not the sane as murder.

Oh, so true! I agree with you on both counts. Stupid drivel is very annoying, and getting angry is seldom good for anything.

Even people with such opposing views as we, ken agree on some things.

I wasn't afraid of you.

Then you worded your previous statement poorly.

I don't define truthfulness or compassion.

You just misrepresent it in a self serving way.

I think I AM qualified to make that determination.

For no one else but yourself.

Just what are girls suffering so much that they have to kill their own?

Clearly you do not know yet you make determinations. That is exactly why you should stay out of other people's lives.

Nothing to do with it.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it.

Oh, is that meant as an insult?

No, just reality. Insults serve no purpose and help no more than your condemnations.

That's only because they love to be seen as the compassionate ones, but in the case of abortion, it's egg on their faces.

Like I said, irrelevant drivel.

There would be, if that were the case.

But it IS the case, you just can't allow yourself to see outside the box you were told to "play in"

But let me just say these things, because they are facts

No need, as clearly you can not accept them.

For the most part, there is nothing wrong with being pregnant.

It all depends, but that is not the issue.

It is very common.

Irrelevant.

It is not a disease.

Nobody said it was, but it can be detrimental to the point of causing death to the pregnant woman.

The baby is not an invader, or a horrible creature robbing nutrients from the girls.

Is this the "facts" you wish to base laws on?

Doctors who perform abortions are not doctors at all.

The diplomas they have say otherwise and again you are in no position to make that call, not in any intelligent way. They certainly are not watch makers.

Abortions serve no purpose (except in very rare cases) and therefore are the stuff of horror stories, nightmares, and evil doings.

BS

No good comes from them.

Just because you do not comprehend or understand it, it does not make your assertion right.

In general, for the majority of the abortions performed, the girls that get abortions are the most selfish of all humans.

You are again judging without any basis.

But I worry about them because they are being lied to by abotionists.

And by people like you.

abortion is clearly murder.

It clearly is not, you may want to familiarize yourself with the term murder.

 

[Logicman]

You have no idea what I read so do not waste your time on stupid guesses.

Actually it does nothing of the sort, but reinforces what I said.

I did, the vile taste reminded me of self professed Christians who know already they are saved, along with everything else God wants and does.

Well, next time you're down and out, try finding a BITTER ATHEIST'S HOMELESS SHELTER.

 

[Logicman]

It's not a baby at 4-8 weeks of gestation....

Yeah, it is. 100% of the time, unless it's terminated, it results in a human being.

 

[prometeus]

Well, next time you're down and out, try finding a BITTER ATHEIST'S HOMELESS SHELTER.

Do not delude yourself, I am neither atheist nor homeless. I just loath self serving zealots.

 

[X Factor]

Look above and you'll see that I often qualify that not all prolifers are the same just like all prochoicers are the same.

You are probably THE most radical prolifer on the forum, or at least in a tie with JayDubya:

1. Accusing prochoicers of wanting to kill born babies.
2. Wanting no doctor to even know how to perform an abortion.

You both have done so and both want no medical abortion for any girl or women even if the fetus unviable and the girl or woman will die without it removed.

Cool. Do we get a pin or a ribbon or something?

 

[joko104]

Cool. Do we get a pin or a ribbon or something?

Better yet, I'll leave the forum. You win. You're just too good. :thumbs:

 

[X Factor]

Better yet, I'll leave the forum. You win. You're just too good. :thumbs:

Wow, that's quite the prize. Was it something I said?

 

[calamity]

Cool. Do we get a pin or a ribbon or something?

Nah, just a label.

 

[calamity]

Do not delude yourself, I am neither atheist nor homeless. I just loath self serving zealots.

Ghandi was right. Christians really are nothing like their "Christ."

 

[calamity]

Yeah, it is. 100% of the time, unless it's terminated, it results in a human being.

View attachment 67164947

At which time you all go Pontius Pilate and wash your hands of it.

 

[calamity]

Look above and you'll see that I often qualify that not all prolifers are the same just like all prochoicers are the same.

You are probably THE most radical prolifer on the forum, or at least in a tie with JayDubya:

1. Accusing prochoicers of wanting to kill born babies.
2. Wanting no doctor to even know how to perform an abortion.

You both have done so and both want no medical abortion for any girl or women even if the fetus unviable and the girl or woman will die without it removed.

Jaydubya is typical of the pro-lifer RW men I run across: they want government intervention when the "baby" is in the womb, but call anyone who wants government to help an actual baby a socialist.

Cognitive dissonance is strong over there.

 

[prometeus]

Ghandi was right. Christians really are nothing like their "Christ."

It is one among many sad truths.

 

[RamFel]

Kill is not the sane as murder.

Even people with such opposing views as we, ken agree on some things.

Then you worded your previous statement poorly.

You just misrepresent it in a self serving way.

For no one else but yourself.

Clearly you do not know yet you make determinations. That is exactly why you should stay out of other people's lives.

It has EVERYTHING to do with it.

No, just reality. Insults serve no purpose and help no more than your condemnations.

Like I said, irrelevant drivel.

But it IS the case, you just can't allow yourself to see outside the box you were told to "play in"

No need, as clearly you can not accept them.

It all depends, but that is not the issue.

Irrelevant.

Nobody said it was, but it can be detrimental to the point of causing death to the pregnant woman.

Is this the "facts" you wish to base laws on?

The diplomas they have say otherwise and again you are in no position to make that call, not in any intelligent way. They certainly are not watch makers.

BS

Just because you do not comprehend or understand it, it does not make your assertion right.

You are again judging without any basis.

And by people like you.

It clearly is not, you may want to familiarize yourself with the term murder.

I'll let you in on a secret. You can say what you want, and do what you want, but at then end of the day, there are still deaths. Every year thousands! And you can't justify it.

But you will try and fail. I'll give you an example; "kill is not the same as murder".

Killing IS the same as murder. Read your Bible! I found it! But I can guess where you'll hide when confronted with the truth. You'll just say that I either mis-understood it, or that God is insignificant, or "according to your God" or "God doesn't exist!"

That's the trouble with defending abortion. All you can do is deny (falsely) against the truth.

 

[Logicman]

Do not delude yourself, I am neither atheist nor homeless. I just loath self serving zealots.

Most of the Christians I've known give freely to help the poor and homeless. There's some hypocrites, but if you ever were to find the perfect church, don't attend it or you'll screw it up.

 

[Logicman]

At which time you all go Pontius Pilate and wash your hands of it.

You think God's going to buy into that, or what you plaster in these fora? Give it a rest.

 

[Ocean007]

There would be, if that were the case. But let me just say these things, because they are facts:

1) For the most part, there is nothing wrong with being pregnant. It is very common. It is not a disease. The baby is not an invader, or a horrible creature robbing nutrients from the girls. They should be cherished. Not stomped on, and cast into the garbage (or whatever becomes of the corpses).

"There is nothing wrong with being pregnant" as long as the woman WANTS to be. If she doesn't, there is EVERYTHING wrong with it.

Speaking for myself, I don't want pregnancy or children, EVER, which is why I use reliable contraception regularly and carefully. I don't consider pregnancy a "joy" or a "blessing," quite the opposite. I want to AVOID unwanted pregnancy to the best of my ability, and I have no intention of denying myself sex for the rest of my life because pregnancy and children are not part of my life plan.

Bottom line; just because YOU believe pregnancy "should be cherished" or something equally ridiculous doesn't mean all women feel the same way about it. I certainly don't. Those of us who choose to be childfree (no kids by choice) have the same right NOT to have children as other women have to become moms.

 

[calamity]

You think God's going to buy into that, or what you plaster in these fora? Give it a rest.

God?


There is just as much chance of this god favoring abortion as there is him opposing it. Your god is a bloody SOB. Read the O/T. He'd be kewl with it as long as we don't abort Jews.