Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581:1781]

[zyzygy]

Is that not how it's always been? First possible then science?

Not always. First there was the volcano god which primitive man thought was possible and then there was plate tectonics.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

As speculation and an assertion, such a place possibly exists.

I certainly assert that such a place possibly exists.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Such nonsense mockery of logic, yet "credentials" are mentioned in previous post.

Here is a summary: Until proven impossible creation is possible (*), but then the last statement contradicts this and it is stated that if it is proven impossible creation is not possible like previously mentioned but it is impossible instead, and remains so until "then" which then becomes possible yet again. But until "then" it is possible, otherwise it is both probable or not probable, which is not correct in sound logic and merely possible at the same time.

Arghhhh, where is William Rea when you need one?! He summarizes these looney positions in such a humorous ways! William? :2wave:

*How will you prove that one thing clouded in the unknown is impossible without logical fallacies of appealing to the unknown or attempting to prove a negative?

Unless something is established to be impossible...it is possible.

It most assuredly is possible that "the universe" is a creation...just as it most assuredly is possible that it is not.

Saying otherwise is contorting logic.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

No, that is not true at all. Something might be impossible , you just not know it. If you consider it possible due to your lack of knowledge, it still is impossible.

Until you establish it as impossible...it is possible.

You refuse to acknowledge that.

 

[Frank Apisa]

So whatever one may perceive in one's imagination also becomes possible then?

Yup...anything anyone can conceive...is possible...unless established as impossible.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Is that not how it's always been? First possible then science?

Yup!!!

 

[Frank Apisa]

There are many things that are not possible, but people thought they were, tried science, and it flopped. That is because it was not possible to begin with.

Not sure...since you failed to give an example.

And I think you may be conflating "impossible" with "does not exist."

But until the item was shown to be "impossible"...it was possible.

 

[zyzygy]

Yup...anything anyone can conceive...is possible...unless established as impossible.

Giant jellyfish in the atmosphere of Saturn, a planet inhabitedentirely by John Travolta clones, a parallel universe made of stanchions that prop up other stanchions, the Hopi Spider Woman God,Cernunos, the undectectable four dimensional tap dancing lizards who inhabit our ionosphere,Leprechauns, Piskies, The Afanc, a planet that rains cheese, Abraxas, Prester John, .....the list is endless. How much time will
you devote to establishing them to be impossible? Common sense is the answer to your fatuous objections.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Giant jellyfish in the atmosphere of Saturn, a planet inhabitedentirely by John Travolta clones, a parallel universe made of stanchions that prop up other stanchions, the Hopi Spider Woman God,Cernunos, the undectectable four dimensional tap dancing lizards who inhabit our ionosphere,Leprechauns, Piskies, The Afanc, a planet that rains cheese, Abraxas, Prester John, .....the list is endless. How much time will
you devote to establishing them to be impossible? Common sense is the answer to your fatuous objections.

Anything that has not been established as impossible...by definition, is possible, Z.

Why that bothers you as much as it does...beats me.

As for the title topic: It is possible "the universe" is a creation; it is possible "the universe" is not.

We do not know which it is.

But both are possible right now.

 

[Pozessed]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

No, that is not true at all. Something might be impossible , you just not know it. If you consider it possible due to your lack of knowledge, it still is impossible.

If something is not found impossible, and this same something has not been proven probable, what English word defines if it might exist?

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

If something is not found impossible, and has not been proven probable, what is it?

Then, it is unknown.

 

[Gardener]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I believe the universe is something I imagined into existence as punishment for the last one I ****ed up.

I'm hoping to get it right eventually if I can learn from my mistakes.

.

 

[Quag]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I believe the universe is something I imagined into existence as punishment for the last one I ****ed up.

I'm hoping to get it right eventually if I can learn from my mistakes.

.

Too late this one is already comptlely F*****-up.

 

[Gardener]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Too late this one is already comptlely F*****-up.

Thus my punishment.

I seem to have made you just fine, but some of my other creations here torment me to no end.

I will try to channel all my considerable chagrin over that fact as the impetus for my improvement next time around. In fact I have already written a note to myself that says "No conspiracy theorists this time around!".

 

[Ikari]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Precisely, and a creator IS possible, not simply a could be. There is more physical evidence to suggest that our universe was created by an intelligent being than there is evidence that suggests the dark side of the moon is made of cheese, is there not?

It appears you have a qualm with the spectrum of how possible is possible. My opinion is, it doesn't matter, both results imply a possibility. Why try to infer something is impossible when the possibility has never been proved impossible?

Well there is a certain use of "possible" that indicates complete lack of knowledge, but you suggest otherwise.

The evidence, yeah? What is it?

 

[dani67]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?


because we are not idiot

 

[Ikari]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?


because we are not idiot

I think really what it comes down to is that there is no reason to believe it was created by some intelligent, outside being less there is evidence or measurement to indicate it was. There isn't. The question isn't "Why not believe the Universe was created", but rather "Why believe the Universe was created".

 

[dani67]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I think really what it comes down to is that there is no reason to believe it was created by some intelligent, outside being less there is evidence or measurement to indicate it was. There isn't. The question isn't "Why not believe the Universe was created", but rather "Why believe the Universe was created".

We made god
Because it was needed for social life in the past.but not anymore.it is useless and its Dangerous for Humanity now

 

[Ikari]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

We made god
Because it was needed for social life in the past.but not anymore.it is useless and its Dangerous for Humanity now

I think that so long as there are unknowns we'll keep our gods in some manner. Particularly where it gives us ease of mind regarding death. So I don't know if we'll ever totally cast off gods completely.

 

[DDD]

Is that not how it's always been? First possible then science?

Nope,

First speculation (a maybe), then evidence, if evidence supports it then possible (it is so), and then the more defined scientific degrees of probability.

The religious may give in and believe during speculation and with very limited weak evidence. The skeptics may invest belief later, during the stage when it is deemed possible due to evidence, or even later when it is statistically shown to be probable. The most die hard skeptics would only believe in it if the probability is in the upper higher level (.05 possibility that it is not).

 

[DDD]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I think that so long as there are unknowns we'll keep our gods in some manner. Particularly where it gives us ease of mind regarding death. So I don't know if we'll ever totally cast off gods completely.

This "god" religious concept will keep on being pushed from "beyond the sea" when earth was deemed flat in the past, to beyond the black holes, or whatever area that science and scientific theory may not cover. Scientific knowledge pushes the unknown/proud religious chair where they assert that this "god" is there and is working in "mysterious ways."

So when all is known one day, there may be nothing left for the religious to assert without evidence and posit their concept of "god" being there or anywhere else.

Sure would hate to see that that is the only way for religion to go, cause it surely will not be in our life time when we know it all thanks to science (not religion).

 

[DDD]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

If something is not found impossible, and this same something has not been proven probable, what English word defines if it might exist?

Speculation awaiting to be supported with evidence and make it convincingly possible, but only if it is worthwhile.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Then, it is unknown.

It is possible.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I believe the universe is something I imagined into existence as punishment for the last one I ****ed up.

I'm hoping to get it right eventually if I can learn from my mistakes.

.

No problem with that.

You are allowed to "believe" anything you want.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

I think really what it comes down to is that there is no reason to believe it was created by some intelligent, outside being less there is evidence or measurement to indicate it was. There isn't. The question isn't "Why not believe the Universe was created", but rather "Why believe the Universe was created".

The answer to which, by anyone with an open mind, would be:

Why not? It is as possible a guess as "it was not created."