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Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581:1781]

re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

calamity said:
Taking on "faith" that there are no gods, insisting it is truth. It is no different than saying the opposite.
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Do quote the post when that was done?
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

calamity said:
I'm not happy about it either, since I consider that gods are highly unlikely, if not impossible. But, we really do not know this. The best we can do is not believe in them.

My stand: I do not believe in things for which there is no evidence.
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Cal,

I appreciate you want to keep an open mind by asserting that some atheists may believe on faith that there are no gods when they should have remained open and wait for actual empirical evidence before believing or not. It may be that for that reason you are prescribing to illogical statements such as "If something is not impossible..." which provides no grounds to whatever it may follow later.

But if one has to keep an open mind then one also needs to be wary of logical fallacies and approach the truth with reality tests rather than faith and mindless repetition, correct?
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Pozessed said:
Wouldn't holding one faith as illogical and not another create a double standard in ones judgement?
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Which faiths that are contradictory to one another are favored over others and thus create the double standard? More precise if possible?
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

William Rea said:
Welcome to the Frankiverse, any idea or concept that you pull out of your ass has a possibility and equal probability. I'm rooting for the magical gay god, I mean, you can't prove that it is impossible.
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William Rea said:
He doesn't know if he knows if something is possible or not. It is possible that he does know but, doesn't know that he knows. In the Frankiverse, anything that you cannot rule out as a possibility is possible because all rationality is abandoned for the dogmatic position.
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These are very good observations Will :)

I would vote for either of them to stand as someone's signature LOL.

I ignored him on such grounds because such a poster ultimately does not knows what they are talking about, do not care to back their statements with evidence, repeat it over and over again and do not pay attention to how many times the position was refuted, and deny their own posts to such low degrees, and lastly hey always retreat in "I do not know anyway, I am just making a fuss for not good reason" - AKA Trolls.
 
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re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Pozessed said:
I'm glad you take notice of the inconsistency. Many don't.
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And fall for it, who knows for how long. Here for example:

calamity said:
I too do not believe in gods, consider such irrational. Nonetheless, they are possible. Why? Because they have not been shown to be impossible.
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calamity said:
No. It is a fact that things which are not proven to be impossible are indeed possible. We are not saying you have to believe in things for which there is no evidence. However, those who preach gods are not possible are the ones evangelizing.
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So now it is even a fact that things that are not proven to be impossible become automatically possible?

Frotch the regular religious god ass kicker that lives in the Pluto's core is not and cannot be proven to be impossible. So then under this "fact" it is possible that it too exists, huh?

Here is the fallacy illustrated clearly (again sadly):

If anything that is not proven to be impossible by "fact" is possible then ________________ (fill in the blank with an imaginary object of anyone's desire) is also possible because their existence is also not been proven.

So now, by which logic (other than delusion) should people believe that their limitless imaginary concepts that they can possible produce are real?

Do you see how it takes a delusional person to believe that the universe was created when logical fallacies and lack of actual empirical evidence is used as grounds to invest belief in concepts?
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Frank Apisa said:
You are correct.

But I do know that IF SOMETHING IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE...it is possible.

Think about it, Ramoss.

You know it also.

And although you do not know this...you probably suspect it: Some of the people claiming they are ignoring me...are doing anything but ignoring me!

Right?
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I did think about it. You keep on saying that. I don't think you know what it means.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Pozessed said:
Setting aside any religious dogma. Why is it easier for some of us to consider this universe and its entirety happened by chance rather than conscious calculation? I don't think its fair to try and justify the psychology of a creator of the universe in this post. (i.e: Why is there evil?)
I'm honestly curious why it is easier to assume chaotic randomness as opposed to a calculated design.
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Because then we have to try to answer the question of who created the creator.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

If it is possible for one god to exist then does it follow that it is possible for all gods to exist? If they do then do they run the universe on a rota basis? If only one god can exist then which religion would be the lucky winner?
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

DDD said:
Which faiths that are contradictory to one another are favored over others and thus create the double standard? More precise if possible?
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Anything that is believed true without empirically observable evidence is faith. Faith is not logical. To consider one sect of faith logical and another not is a double standard if one considers empirical evidence necessary for a conclusion to remain logical.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

KevinKohler said:
Because then we have to try to answer the question of who created the creator.
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No...It's possible the creator has a creator. My superior has a CEO. I have no contact with my superiors CEO though he is indirectly still my superior. If mine and my direct superiors duties are fulfilled because my direct superior is good at what he does. Our CEO should be content without needing to make himself established. Though the CEO is probably necessary for the company to function, many of the people working for him would consider him irrelevant for the company to function.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Pozessed said:
No...It's possible the creator has a creator. My superior has a CEO. I have no contact with my superiors CEO though he is indirectly still my superior. If mine and my direct superiors duties are fulfilled because my direct superior is good at what he does. Our CEO should be content without needing to make himself established. Though the CEO is probably necessary for the company to function, many of the people working for him would consider him irrelevant for the company to function.
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Your COE and superior are human and I have no doubt that they exist. Gods are another matter.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

zyzygy said:
Your COE and superior are human and I have no doubt that they exist. Gods are another matter.
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You asked if the creator had a creator. When pondering fantasy I assumed I garnished a fair analogy. I'm sorry you don't relate.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Pozessed said:
You asked if the creator had a creator. When pondering fantasy I assumed I garnished a fair analogy. I'm sorry you don't relate.
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Wasn't it Kevin who asked that? It wasn't a good analogy. I assume that it can be proven that your superiors exist.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Pozessed said:
No...It's possible the creator has a creator. My superior has a CEO. I have no contact with my superiors CEO though he is indirectly still my superior. If mine and my direct superiors duties are fulfilled because my direct superior is good at what he does. Our CEO should be content without needing to make himself established. Though the CEO is probably necessary for the company to function, many of the people working for him would consider him irrelevant for the company to function.
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And who created that creator? And why?
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

zyzygy said:
If it is possible for one god to exist then does it follow that it is possible for all gods to exist? If they do then do they run the universe on a rota basis? If only one god can exist then which religion would be the lucky winner?
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Only the current one. It's kinda like monopoly. The only one left wins!
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

zyzygy said:
Wasn't it Kevin who asked that? It wasn't a good analogy. I assume that it can be proven that your superiors exist.
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So it was Kevin. Again, I'm sorry you don't relate.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

KevinKohler said:
And who created that creator? And why?
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The creators creator created the creator so that the creator could create a universe of endless questions.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Jeb Bush and Rubio are from my perspective compromise candidates. Essentially red meat republicans who will continue the aggressive (read militaristic) foreign policy of george and B.O. However, unlike the latter, there's a glimmer of hope that we may get some much needed tax relief. At the very least, the situation probably won't get worse and certainly there's more to be optimistic about for either of them than HRC or BS.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Pozessed said:
So it was Kevin. Again, I'm sorry you don't relate.
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Relate? I haven't heard that in this context since the 1960's. You don't get my point. Ok, we'll leave it at that.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

DDD said:
I do not mind agnosticism, but when posters go to extreme lengths to assert their position, and that not only by ad hominem, appealing to the unknown, attempting to prove a negative, and not only by repeating the same statement over and over again after it got logically refuted several times, but also by denying their own posts (Mach caught him redhanded twice, I also did a few times) which is still available in written now, just to read a repeated long lost argument, then by all accounts the poster has lost credibility, and is no longer worthy of my time.
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Fundamentalist evangelicals do this all the time. It doesn't matter how many times you correct them, they just carry on repeating the same old crap all over again. I actually believe Frank when he says he is an agnostic evangelist, there is much evidence for this.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Pozessed said:
No...It's possible the creator has a creator. My superior has a CEO. I have no contact with my superiors CEO though he is indirectly still my superior. If mine and my direct superiors duties are fulfilled because my direct superior is good at what he does. Our CEO should be content without needing to make himself established. Though the CEO is probably necessary for the company to function, many of the people working for him would consider him irrelevant for the company to function.
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It's called infinite regress, look it up.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

RAMOSS said:
I did think about it. You keep on saying that. I don't think you know what it means.
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Well...I do...even if you do not think I do.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

If a thing is not established to be impossible...

...it is possible.

That seems to rattle the atheists here.

I wonder why?

In any case, it absolutely is possible that what we humans call "the universe" was "created."

As far as "believing" it was or wasn't...there is no unambiguous evidence in either direction...so anyone saying "the universe WAS NOT created" or "the universe WAS created"...is simply asserting a blind guess.

That probably rattles the atheists here also.

It shouldn't.

Anyway...since there is no unambiguous evidence in either direction...the logical thing to do is to simply acknowledge we do not know.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Frank Apisa said:
If a thing is not established to be impossible...

...it is possible.
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Some might say, anything that is possible, given enough time, is inevitable.
 
re: Why Not Believe The Universe Was Created?[W:1581]

Under what circumstances would a magic god be possible?
 
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