Why no new gay issues in the news?

[Topsez]

For a while the gay agenda was headlines almost weekly... yet, as of late they seem to being exceptionally quiet... No new states authorizing gay marriage... no Philly 5 incidents in the headlines ... no ACLU actions hitting the headlines... what is going on... are the gay folks going back in the closet?

I respect gay people but disrespect them using the ACLU to beat up on the Boy Scouts.

I think gays should be allowed to have equal rights as other citizens excluding marriage and adoption.

I do not think normal children should be indroctinated about gay issues in public school.

How do you feel about why the progressive agenda that seemed to be on fire is out of the news?

 

[imprtnrd]

We (gays) are still out here and we are everywhere. You would have to read gay themed publications if you want to know whats going on all the time.
You say "no" to gay marriage, I say "no" to Str8 people getting divorces and abusing there kids. Make divorce illegal in every state. As for not teaching about gay in public school, well then send them to a conservitive private school and keep them shelterd from the real world. This IS 2006 and not 1960.

 

[Captain America]

For a while the gay agenda was headlines almost weekly... yet, as of late they seem to being exceptionally quiet... No new states authorizing gay marriage... no Philly 5 incidents in the headlines ... no ACLU actions hitting the headlines... what is going on... are the gay folks going back in the closet?

I respect gay people but disrespect them using the ACLU to beat up on the Boy Scouts.

I think gays should be allowed to have equal rights as other citizens excluding marriage and adoption.

I do not think normal children should be indroctinated about gay issues in public school.

How do you feel about why the progressive agenda that seemed to be on fire is out of the news?

I will try to address your points one by one if I may.

That's what the ACLU is there for. Like them or not. But remember, someday, they may be fighting a cause close to your heart.

Gays should have equal rights...well, almost equal rights? That's what you said, right? Reminds me of a line from an old book called Animal Farm. "All animals shall be equal. But some animals are more equal than others." I'll let you chew on that one a while.

Well, the only time the gay issues usually hit the media is usually when they want to divert our attentions from more pressing issues and so they throw us a wedge issue bone to get us to look the other way. Surveys say gay issues are very far down on the list of American concerns.



Normal children? Since the beginning of mankind, roughly 10%, as I understand it, of humans have been gay. That is the nature of humankind. If we are to believe the newspapers, recent research suggests that even the remaining 90% of "straight" humans participate in homosexual activities. So, whether you or I agree with homosexuality is a non-issue. It is a normal human trait in about 10% of our population. The worst thing we can do is make that 10% feel "not normal." Nature has imprinted in our human makeup at least 10% of mankind shall be gay. That seems very natural/normal to me. If anyone disagrees thay have to take it up with Nature.

I don't think children should be indoctrinated about any issues of sexuality, period.

It don't concern me none that the flames have died down in regard to gay issues as it ain't my battle. Me thinks, the gays I do know, never wanted the flames to begin with. It was a rightwing wedge non-issue used to divert the attentions of the gullible and simple minded people to get their focus off of healthcare, education, immigration and the War in Iraq. Nobody else really cared.

 

[Topsez]

We (gays) are still out here and we are everywhere. You would have to read gay themed publications if you want to know whats going on all the time.

My point is leading up to the last two elections the gay agenda was competing for news fill time when there was no other important news to cover on 24-7 news and now there is nothing. Just wondering if the "left" left the gays behind since it got them beat up so baddly in those elections.

You say "no" to gay marriage, I say "no" to Str8 people getting divorces and abusing there kids. Make divorce illegal in every state. As for not teaching about gay in public school, well then send them to a conservitive private school and keep them shelterd from the real world. This IS 2006 and not 1960.

What does divorce have to do with gay issues? I would bet you a case of beer that if gays could marry there would be more divorces than in strait marriages.

Why do you feel it is necessary to teach strait kids gay lifestyle in public schools? I think school (1-12) should spend the valuable time and resources to teach subjects related to questions on a college entrance exam... nothing wrong with social science in college but in 1-12 the teaches seem not to be able to prepare kids for the basics so why waste time on gay issues... it would be better spent on civics or PE.

How do you see the real world? So we should teach kids that in the real world there are criminals, and dwell on each type, there are religious fanitics and dwell on each type, there are atheist and dwell on the basis for their belief... good greif that is what is learned in a normal home and readily availabe on TV... There are so many misunderstood sectors of society where would math, science and history enter in the education process?

 

[Captain America]

What does divorce have to do with gay issues? I would bet you a case of beer that if gays could marry there would be more divorces than in strait marriages.

I could not argue that. I think the divorce rate would pretty much reflect current trends across the board. But who really knows?

But I DO like the way you gamble sir. :cheers:

 

[Caine]

are the gay folks going back in the closet?

WHO...........THE ****....................CARES?

I think you starting this thread just to bicker and argue with people.

 

[Topsez]

I will try to address your points one by one if I may.
Gays should have equal rights...well, almost equal rights? That's what you said, right? Reminds me of a line from an old book called Animal Farm. "All animals shall be equal. But some animals are more equal than others." I'll let you chew on that one a while.

First allow me to complement you on and excellent post! I have debated this or similar issues on other sites and have never seen a view posted lacking hostility as they calmly answer the discussion.

I think all Americans are pretty much equal... some minorties have more rights than whites but all in all pretty level playing field. I think marriage is a debate in itself and won't go into detail other than to say I see no reason why civil unions shouldn't be avaliable to any couple including brothers and sisters.. if sexuality isn't given as the basis for the union but merely the right for purposes of gaining legal rights that may not otherwise exist.

Well, the only time the gay issues usually hit the media is usually when they want to divert our attentions from more pressing issues and so they throw us a wedge issue bone to get us to look the other way. Surveys say gay issues are very far down on the list of American concerns.

I don't think gay issues are used as a diversion but because they are contraversial.

Normal children? Since the beginning of mankind, roughly 10%, as I understand it, of humans have been gay. That is the nature of humankind. If we are to believe the newspapers, recent research suggests that even the remaining 90% of "straight" humans participate in homosexual activities. So, whether you or I agree with homosexuality is a non-issue. It is a normal human trait in about 10% of our population. The worst thing we can do is make that 10% feel "not normal." Nature has imprinted in our human makeup at least 10% of mankind shall be gay. That seems very natural/normal to me. If anyone disagrees thay have to take it up with Nature.

That is the best answer to normal - abnormal I've ever read!

The problem is that it is normal to go to the office every day and eveyone is wearing clothes... then one day you come in and ten percent are nude... that would tend to shock the expected norm.
I don't think children should be indoctrinated about any issues of sexuality, period.

It don't concern me none that the flames have died down in regard to gay issues as it ain't my battle. Me thinks, the gays I do know, never wanted the flames to begin with. It was a rightwing wedge non-issue used to divert the attentions of the gullible and simple minded people to get their focus off of healthcare, education, immigration and the War in Iraq. Nobody else really cared.

I think there are two distinct groups of gays one desiring acceptance and a militant group that want to force it down your throat... pardon the pun... The Philly five as an example of militants.

I think, like the black movement and court actions force results in negative results... I can make you let me in your resturant.... yea, but you can't keep me from spitting in your food. My point is you can't litigate or legislate love and understanding... it must be earned.

Where or where was the rightwing wedge when Prez Clinton bit his bottom lip and signed "don't ask - don't tell"? Where were the gays in Congress?

 

[Captain America]

Where or where was the rightwing wedge when Prez Clinton bit his bottom lip and signed "don't ask - don't tell"? Where were the gays in Congress?

I would assume they (rightwing) were there saying, "If you insist on allowing gays to serve you must insist they keep it in the closet if you want any support from us." Thus, the DADT policy. Pandering to the right. After all, that has righwing written all over it. Perhaps he had to compromise.

If the right had it their way, gays wouldn't serve.
If tthe left had it their way, they would serve in ballerina slippers.

Sounds to me like Clinton landed in the middle.

 

[Jerry]

For a while the gay agenda was headlines almost weekly... yet, as of late they seem to being exceptionally quiet... No new states authorizing gay marriage... no Philly 5 incidents in the headlines ... no ACLU actions hitting the headlines......

......no signing of illegal treaties with Mexico and Canada undermining our seventy.......

Was it coincidence that the whole Monica thing with Clinton happened while we were giving Nuke tech to China?


Abortion, gay marriage…..these are smoke screens.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

are the gay folks going back in the closet?

Certainly not - closets are where you keep your clothes.

I think gays should be allowed to have equal rights as other citizens excluding marriage and adoption.

Aw, now you've upset The Nurse. I may have to be naughty.

 

[Topsez]

I would assume they (rightwing) were there saying, "If you insist on allowing gays to serve you must insist they keep it in the closet if you want any support from us." Thus, the DADT policy. Pandering to the right. After all, that has righwing written all over it. Perhaps he had to compromise.

Is either party, under the constitution allowed to pass legislation that contradicts other federal laws even when it involves the armed forces? Likewise, is it moral for a commander in chief to sign a military policy that is in direct violation to other federal laws? To support either position in support one must say the military law is "outside of constitutional protections"... Is it? Does the US Flag with a gold border court allow violation of laws created by the congress... if so then why should anyone question the NSA Wiretap case since it is outside of federal law protection... I think congress passed an illegal policy, in other words law and the perz signed that law knowing it was illegal.

If the right had it their way, gays wouldn't serve.
If tthe left had it their way, they would serve in ballerina slippers.

Sounds to me like Clinton landed in the middle.

You may be correct about the right and the left but wrong about Clinton... He could have vetoed the clearly unlawful policy. Afterall, black and women were intergated into the military and leaders are required to follow orders... right? Clinton landed in reality along with those gay reps and senators in congress... that if gays were given equal rights in the military there would be a draft to replace those who wouldn't serve under, pardon the pun, subordinate to openly serving gays.

Does the supreme not watch tv or read newspapers and will they "take" the pending cases to give gays equal rights in the military? Who wants to be the one who caused the draft? Guess Clinton answers NOT ME! With gay marriage legal in MA... A MA gay person that is married can't qualify for service with the military because his/her marital status forbids it. Who will take responsibility for the draft?

An afterthought... I think the DADT federal policy is a baromerter of where America is in acceptance of gays out of the closet. And it is federal policy.

 

[RightOfCenter]

I will try to address your points one by one if I may.

That's what the ACLU is there for. Like them or not. But remember, someday, they may be fighting a cause close to your heart.

Gays should have equal rights...well, almost equal rights? That's what you said, right? Reminds me of a line from an old book called Animal Farm. "All animals shall be equal. But some animals are more equal than others." I'll let you chew on that one a while.

Well, the only time the gay issues usually hit the media is usually when they want to divert our attentions from more pressing issues and so they throw us a wedge issue bone to get us to look the other way. Surveys say gay issues are very far down on the list of American concerns.



Normal children? Since the beginning of mankind, roughly 10%, as I understand it, of humans have been gay. That is the nature of humankind. If we are to believe the newspapers, recent research suggests that even the remaining 90% of "straight" humans participate in homosexual activities. So, whether you or I agree with homosexuality is a non-issue. It is a normal human trait in about 10% of our population. The worst thing we can do is make that 10% feel "not normal." Nature has imprinted in our human makeup at least 10% of mankind shall be gay. That seems very natural/normal to me. If anyone disagrees thay have to take it up with Nature.

I don't think children should be indoctrinated about any issues of sexuality, period.

It don't concern me none that the flames have died down in regard to gay issues as it ain't my battle. Me thinks, the gays I do know, never wanted the flames to begin with. It was a rightwing wedge non-issue used to divert the attentions of the gullible and simple minded people to get their focus off of healthcare, education, immigration and the War in Iraq. Nobody else really cared.

Good points, but is it really 10% of the population? I'm fairly certain that's a myth, but its a little late to look it up so maybe next time.

 

[Captain America]

Good points, but is it really 10% of the population? I'm fairly certain that's a myth, but its a little late to look it up so maybe next time.

Perhaps you are right. I truly don't know. Kinsey says 10%, others say 5%, others say 20%. Who can keep up?

 

[Topsez]

I would assume they (rightwing) were there saying, "If you insist on allowing gays to serve you must insist they keep it in the closet if you want any support from us." Thus, the DADT policy. Pandering to the right. After all, that has righwing written all over it. Perhaps he had to compromise.

If the right had it their way, gays wouldn't serve.
If tthe left had it their way, they would serve in ballerina slippers.

Sounds to me like Clinton landed in the middle.

Well, I said

An afterthought... I think the DADT federal policy is a baromerter of where America is in acceptance of gays out of the closet. And it is federal policy.

And, I indicated that the true reason Clinton, the court and so on hasn't directed the illegal action is because no on wants to be the one who caused the draft...

You were in an elite group... can you imagine the Navy Seals or the Tenth Mountain Division Commander calling a mantatory attendance Dining In where he introduced his life mate of the same sex? Where would the macho guys from Delta Force, SF, Seals and so on find respect to show their face in public?

Where would a closet be large enough to hide those responsible for the draft exist? Would those drafted end the progressive liberalism support of the gay rights as they searched out the one responsible for thier sons and daughters being drafted? DADT is the law of the land and the barometer of America's willingness to have gays out of the closet. Dissagree then demand they serve openly in the military!

 

[Captain America]

You were in an elite group... can you imagine the Navy Seals or the Tenth Mountain Division Commander calling a mantatory attendance Dining In where he introduced his life mate of the same sex? Where would the macho guys from Delta Force, SF, Seals and so on find respect to show their face in public?

Well, in a sensible world, they would find respect in just being themselves in such an elite group. But I certainly hear what you are saying. How well I recall the guys I served with that spoke with a lisp and were a bit light in the loafers. They caught pure hell from the "macho men" in the battalion.

Until society is able to de-program itself from centuries of homophobic prejudices, which ain't gonna happen overnight, the gays have a long row to hoe. But it's not their ignorance that cause them to lose self-respect but the ignorance of others.

 

[Topsez]

Well, in a sensible world, they would find respect in just being themselves in such an elite group. But I certainly hear what you are saying. How well I recall the guys I served with that spoke with a lisp and were a bit light in the loafers. They caught pure hell from the "macho men" in the battalion.

Until society is able to de-program itself from centuries of homophobic prejudices, which ain't gonna happen overnight, the gays have a long row to hoe. But it's not their ignorance that cause them to lose self-respect but the ignorance of others.

Gays were tossed down three flights of stairs in a wall locker when I was in the Army so things must be much advanced since you say they are only harrassed.

My Nephew is gay, but his dad didn't let us know... Like I said earlier I respect gays but I don't consider them equal any more than DADT does... My dad was a bigot... kind of an Archie Bunker, when I was young he was in the KKK, I got the back of his hand more than once for correcting him about the correct word to use for black people. When we moved to NJ I worked in the same workplace as he did and there there were two gay men working... One was a militant and the other, a young guy was simply gay and didn't bother anyone... The shift leader, who shared our joined house was a bigot also and loved to bother the kid who was my age. To piss off the two Archies I invited the gay guy for a road trip to my hometown in WV... I was labeled a fa**t until I got caught by the town slut's dad comeing out of the woods with her.

Sex doesn't need to be in public as far as the government is concerned for people to have equal treatment. Like DADT the Seals, tenth mountain and SF commands could be commanded by gays with respect if they just remain people without stating sexuality... the same with civil unions...

Gays are no more the same as straits than autistic people are... But, all life is precious and humans are compassionate towards difference in most cases... remember the chicken reference?

Perhaps someday it will be normal for a gay person married to the same sex to command macho men of a Seals, SF or Ranger Mountain Division but that fruit, pardon the pun isn't ripe yet. My half brother didn't tell the family his son was gay becasue he wasn't proud of the fact... he had waited for a son to train as a baseball player and named him for a baseball star sharing our family name... the kid grew up to live with another man is a chef... a very good chef but a disapointment to my half brother... I think if my half brother was told his son would be born autistic he would have had him aborted and if he had been told his son would be gay the same result would be known... like a woman's right to choose he would have chosen a normal boy that could put on a glove and play ball with him...

I know all of that crap is very cold and indifferent but I try to shoot from the hip like the women that have the right to kill who ever they decide... I think DADT is the barometer for our period in time for the entire nation concerning whether gays should be in or out of the closet.

 

[Captain America]

Considering your background Topsez, I think you have made great strides towards free-thinking and logical deduction. There are a couple of points or opinions you raised that I totally disagree with but they were honest, from the hip, and stated as your opinion which you are certainly entitled to. I can respect that.

I, too, came up in a somewhat prejudiced conditioning. The ignorance of my predecessors was amazing compared to today's society. They had good hearts but lazy minds. There was no malice or hate so to speak, but much inconsideration and insensitivity. I used to tell the best gay jokes in town. Then I actually befriended a lesbian couple who I just absolutely adored. They introduced me to a few of their friends and then I learned how really normal these people were. Sure, their lifestyle was outside of what I was brought up to consider normal but this slight "abnormality:roll: " paled in comparison to some of the abnormalities that my some of my "straight friends" had. I suppose we all have our demons in one way or another but I have advanced enough in my life, I feel, that I no longer consider someone's gayness abnormal at all. I was taught it was, but after much consideration, some maturity, I have come to learn it is not. Just as being left-handed may be considered abnormal by some, I do not consider it abnormal at all. It is very liberating to learn to accept people for who they are as long as they do not harm me in any way or harm other people.

Further, it is not my arrogant right to dictate their lifestyles or limit their freedoms on any preconceived notion of their inferiority or any pseudo moral highground I think I might stand on because I am straight.

Enlightenment is a wonderful thing.

 

[Sir_Alec]

You wanna know why there are no gay issues in the news right now...

BUSH ISN'T USING IT AS A DIVERSION ANYMORE!!!

 

[Topsez]

Considering your background Topsez, I think you have made great strides towards free-thinking and logical deduction. There are a couple of points or opinions you raised that I totally disagree with but they were honest, from the hip, and stated as your opinion which you are certainly entitled to. I can respect that.

I, too, came up in a somewhat prejudiced conditioning. The ignorance of my predecessors was amazing compared to today's society. They had good hearts but lazy minds. There was no malice or hate so to speak, but much inconsideration and insensitivity. I used to tell the best gay jokes in town. Then I actually befriended a lesbian couple who I just absolutely adored. They introduced me to a few of their friends and then I learned how really normal these people were. Sure, their lifestyle was outside of what I was brought up to consider normal but this slight "abnormality:roll: " paled in comparison to some of the abnormalities that my some of my "straight friends" had. I suppose we all have our demons in one way or another but I have advanced enough in my life, I feel, that I no longer consider someone's gayness abnormal at all. I was taught it was, but after much consideration, some maturity, I have come to learn it is not. Just as being left-handed may be considered abnormal by some, I do not consider it abnormal at all. It is very liberating to learn to accept people for who they are as long as they do not harm me in any way or harm other people.

Further, it is not my arrogant right to dictate their lifestyles or limit their freedoms on any preconceived notion of their inferiority or any pseudo moral highground I think I might stand on because I am straight.

Enlightenment is a wonderful thing.

CAagain I have to congradulate you on your silver tongue.

My parents were both very religious and my dad had stopped his membership with the KKK after marring my mother. He mentioned once that he was a member and that he had went to only one cross burning and it was in the front yard of a white man who failed to support his family spending his money on whiskey. If you remember the Mothman Prophency we lived in Mason County near Pt. Pleasant where the story took place... guess the KKK did a pretty good job of segregating because the entire county was white...

I never had contact with gay people after being drafted in the military that professed being gay directly until I moved to Puerto Rico. Here I did some custom carpentry and did quite a bit of work for a gay ceramic artisan... He was a nice person and I worked well with him until he directly spoke of sexuality one day when I commented on his kancer sore on his lip. His comments in return upset me causing me to leave a project unfinished for him at a financial loss to me. That happened several years ago and I saw him again in the supermarket a couple days ago for the first time causing me to post this topic. I'm sure he meant nothing by what he said but it was so out of the norm of what I would say in public to someone about sex that it shocked my norm.

Like most men female gays seem more normal to me than male gays. Gays simply don't bother me at all because they are so seldom encountered but the very thought of what two male gays do disgusts me to the point of upset stomach. I watch the home fix up shows with my wife on Dish TV and they always have a couple like Mike and Alex who are going to fix up the house or garden on a budget of $40 K and it doesn't bother me at all... but when the Fox or other news shows two gay men kissing while discussing gay marriage I get physically sick at my stomach... oddly, when women are in a similar situation I don't feel the same.

I grew up thinking that gays were as rare as lightning strikes and that "gays" felt they were so weird that they moved to Grenwich Village in NYC or SF because they were so different... I never considered gays existed outside of those two cities until I was eighteen... it simply didn't add up.