Why Most Scholars Agree on the Anonymity of the Four Gospels

[Somerville]

Jesus appeared to the apostles. He appeared to 500 before the ascension. Thousands were baptized on Pentecost. All of these people were persecuted. These were all large, public events. You mean to tell me that thousands chose a life of persecution for something that they knew to be a lie?

No, and you know it. You just don't want to accept it because of the demands that it places on your life. The truth is always better than a lie.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

Why aren't these events found in any non-Christian works of the period under discussion? What about the saints who were raised from the dead and "entered the holy city and appeared to many."?

Why aren't there records of the "thousands" who were persecuted? Why would a professor of theology write a book about the mythology of Christian martyrdom?

 

[phattonez]

Why couldn't the leader of that cult truly believe what he told his followers? Public tricks are not miracles and are not signs of divinity. Faith healers are a dime a dozen.

How many "faith healers" do you know who can heal lepers and blind people? How many can turn water into wine? How many can resurrect a man dead 4 days?

How many can resurrect themselves and appear to hundreds?

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

 

[phattonez]

Why aren't these events found in any non-Christian works of the period under discussion? What about the saints who were raised from the dead and "entered the holy city and appeared to many."?

Why aren't there records of the "thousands" who were persecuted? Why would a professor of theology write a book about the mythology of Christian martyrdom?

The idea that early Christians weren't persecuted is ahistorical garbage. We know that Jews did, Nero blame the fire of Rome on them, and that Diocletian put plenty of them to death. It only ended with Constantine.

Denying the persecution of Christians is even more ridiculous than denying the Holocaust.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

 

[phattonez]

It wouldn't matter if he does show you. You'd kick it to the curb just like you do all evidences for Christianity. Automatically, in your patented "Dr. NO" routine.

They are a "stiff-necked people."

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

 

[phattonez]

No, they chose a life of persecution for a strong belief, just as any other religious believers have done.

No one chooses a life of persecution for what they know to be a lie. They were direct observers of these miracles.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

 

[RAMOSS]

It wouldn't matter if he does show you. You'd kick it to the curb just like you do all evidences for Christianity. Automatically, in your patented "Dr. NO" routine.

In other words, he can't , nor can you back up your claims.

 

[RAMOSS]

Yes, there were public miracles. Feeding of 4000 and 5000. Healing of men born blind. Healing of lepers. Resurrecting Lazarus. Turning water into wine. Then there's Jesus Himself coming back to life and appearing to hundreds.

No cult has anything remotely similar to these public miracles.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

Correction. They heard about those.. and heard about the claims of those miracles happening. There is no evidence outside of the bible it actually happened. I don't believe Suetonius's claim that Vespespian cured the blind and lame with a touch of his hand either. We only have the stories in the bible about these so called 'miracles'. They only read those stories, and believed them

 

[Logicman]

In other words, he can't , nor can you back up your claims.

No one in their right mind wants to feed you credible information that you take a dump on 100% of the time.

Recommend you get a new hobby.

 

[phattonez]

Correction. They heard about those.. and heard about the claims of those miracles happening. There is no evidence outside of the bible it actually happened. I don't believe Suetonius's claim that Vespespian cured the blind and lame with a touch of his hand either. We only have the stories in the bible about these so called 'miracles'. They only read those stories, and believed them

So Christians chose to be horrifically persecuted for 300 years for a lie? Meanwhile, you compare that to a Roman emperor who could persecute people who refused to worship him as a god?

Disingenuous.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

 

[phattonez]

No one in their right mind wants to feed you credible information that you take a dump on 100% of the time.

Recommend you get a new hobby.

He's ashamed because his Temple has been destroyed for 2000 years, far longer than even their slavery in Egypt. He refuses to admit that God was fed up with them. Their salvation is in Christ, like everyone else, yet they think they can attain it by tracing their lineage to Abraham.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

 

[Daisy]

So Christians chose to be horrifically persecuted for 300 years for a lie? Meanwhile, you compare that to a Roman emperor who could persecute people who refused to worship him as a god?

Disingenuous.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

lol...ironic...

 

[zyzygy]

He's ashamed because his Temple has been destroyed for 2000 years, far longer than even their slavery in Egypt. He refuses to admit that God was fed up with them. Their salvation is in Christ, like everyone else, yet they think they can attain it by tracing their lineage to Abraham.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

First prove the existence of this god.

 

[phattonez]

First prove the existence of this god.

Why don't you respond first to my question to you? What's the definition of a decent human being? And how do we know what decent is?

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

 

[Logicman]

He's ashamed because his Temple has been destroyed for 2000 years, far longer than even their slavery in Egypt. He refuses to admit that God was fed up with them. Their salvation is in Christ, like everyone else, yet they think they can attain it by tracing their lineage to Abraham.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

Ramoss is a Reform Jew who doesn't even believe in the supernatural Jewish God, or miracles, or prophecy, etc. And that isn't Judaism.

 

[RAMOSS]

No one in their right mind wants to feed you credible information that you take a dump on 100% of the time.

Recommend you get a new hobby.

If the information is credible, it will withstand any criticism on it's own merits. That sounds like a rationalization not to present any.

 

[RAMOSS]

Ramoss is a Reform Jew who doesn't even believe in the supernatural Jewish God, or miracles, or prophecy, etc. And that isn't Judaism.

That is because you do not understand my explanation about 'natural verses supernatural'.

 

[phattonez]

Ramoss is a Reform Jew who doesn't even believe in the supernatural Jewish God, or miracles, or prophecy, etc. And that isn't Judaism.

Judaism has been abandoned for 2000 years. You don't get to live God in bliss for eternity if you reject His son.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

 

[zyzygy]

Judaism has been abandoned for 2000 years. You don't get to live God in bliss for eternity if you reject His son.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

Allegedly. There is no proof.

 

[zyzygy]

Why don't you respond first to my question to you? What's the definition of a decent human being? And how do we know what decent is?

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

Def. A human like me. Now, what about that proof? Decency is following the teachings of Krishna.

 

[phattonez]

Def. A human like me. Now, what about that proof? Decency is following the teachings of Krishna.

And what's the proof of that?

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

 

[Somerville]

The idea that early Christians weren't persecuted is ahistorical garbage. We know that Jews did, Nero blame the fire of Rome on them, and that Diocletian put plenty of them to death. It only ended with Constantine.

Denying the persecution of Christians is even more ridiculous than denying the Holocaust.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

I see you failed to acknowledge a couple of my questions and went straight to the True Believer response and sidestep - cute.

What about the saints who were raised from the dead and "entered the holy city and appeared to many."?

What about the darkness that lasted for three hours, or the earthquake, or the saints who came out of their tombs and appeared to many?

Yes, there was some persecution but nothing like the fantasies some people believe. You seem to "know" a lot of stuff that historians of the non-theological type agree just ain't so.
For some reason, Suetonius writing about the fire in Rome during 64 CE failed to mention any persecution or blame-casting of Christians.

 

[Somerville]

No one chooses a life of persecution for what they know to be a lie. They were direct observers of these miracles.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

Really? direct observers of miracles? Funny how there are zero mentions in any of the contemporary documents from the period.

 

[Somerville]

So Christians chose to be horrifically persecuted for 300 years for a lie? Meanwhile, you compare that to a Roman emperor who could persecute people who refused to worship him as a god?

Disingenuous.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

Really do need to read some actual history.

There were brief periods (AD 257-58 under Valerian and 303-5, Diocletian's tetrarchy) when Christians were deliberately singled out by Roman legislators and administrators. One of the tetrachs was Constantius, father of Constantine. He was in charge of Britain and Gaul. Records we have show Constantius did little in the way of persecuting Christians in his region.

Pliny the Younger, as governor of Bithynia, wrote to the Emperor Trajan (110-112) for advice on how to deal with the group called Christians admitting that he was unaware of legal precedent concerning them. A bit odd that an educated aristocrat would not have heard or read of Nero's persecution after the burning of Rome.

Cassius Dio after about 210 AD writes about the fire in Rome but says nothing about Christians.

 

[Somerville]

Judaism has been abandoned for 2000 years. You don't get to live God in bliss for eternity if you reject His son.

Sent from my phone. Instaurare omnia in Christo.

That's odd because I can read the following passages in the Gospel According to Matthew

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,*6*but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said,*“I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

 

[Daisy]

That's odd because I can read the following passages in the Gospel According to Matthew

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Go nowhere among the Gentiles, and enter no town of the Samaritans,*6*but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said,*“I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Big whoop...how about telling the whole story if you're gonna tell it at all?

Jesus Christ adhered to this basic rule of refraining from fraternizing with people of the nations. And he instructed his disciples that in their preaching activity they should “not go off into the road of the nations [Gentiles], and do not enter into a Samaritan city; but, instead, go continually to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matt. 10:5, 6) Yet, notwithstanding all of this, Jesus showed no approval of, or conformity to, the extreme view found in rabbinical writings that counted all Gentiles as enemies to be treated with virtual contempt​—even as he did not let such attitudes control his dealings with Samaritans. (John 4:4-40) Far from this, Jesus cited his Father’s prophetic Word to show that people of the nations would accept the Messiah, that the temple was to be a house of prayer for all nations, and that the Messiah would prove to be a light to the nations. (Matt. 12:18, 21; Mark 11:17; compare Luke 2:27-32; Acts 13:47.) When a Gentile army officer, who had shown great kindness to the Jews, asked Jesus to heal a sick slave, Jesus did so. (Luke 7:2-10) So, while never going contrary to the admonition of the Mosaic law concerning fraternizing with those not of God’s congregation (Gentiles), Jesus did not become unbalanced, extreme or rigidly hard, adopting an antagonistic attitude toward these. He wisely discerned the principles contained in God’s instructions and was guided by them.

Divine Mercy Points the Way Back for Erring Ones — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY