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Why Many Orthodox Jews Do Not Accept Zionism

danarhea

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This is a touchy subject for many, but I feel it has to be said.

Many people have a misconception that Judaism and Zionism are closely related, and that could not be further from the truth. While the concept of Anti-Zionism brings up ideas of rascism, Nazi oppression, and Arab hatred of Israel, the fact is that the first people in the world to be against Zionism were Jews who saw the movement as atheistic, and stoked in idol worship.

Being a Jew and being a Zionist are, in fact, 2 concepts which do clash with each other and, if you put aside the defintions we have been both, taught by political pundits, and inferred by historical context, Zionism itself is not so much a concept of being Jewish as it is of Nationalism. And here is the reason that many Orthodox Jews are against it.

Listen to this lecture by Rabbi Goldstein, and you will come away from it with an appreciation of how Jews from around the world are divided on the biblical and historical meanings of religion and state.
 

Gardener

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150 years ago, it was a common tactic among those advocating slavery to point out the attitudes of a small number of house slaves who voiced opinions supporting their own slavery. This ruse was used as a way to garner support for their racism and degredation of others.

It is a favorite ploy among today's antisemites to point out that very small number of Jews who voice opinions against the Jewish state, and again, for the same reason. They are attempting to garner support for their prejudice -- a prejudice manifested in their desire to delegitimize the one tiny place in the world where Jews can call their own and can be afforded that same sense of self-determination afforded other peoples.

It's such a transparant ruse, really, for the overwhelming number of anti-zionists are antisemites, and this attempted obfuscation of that fact is but part of their overall arsenal of rhetorec. "ooh, look -- even these Jews agree with us!" they relish, and as they embellish their hateful agenda, the next step is to dig up folks like Israel Shahak and other Jewish nutjobs who are so self-hating as to be virulently antisemitic, themselves, and then proceed to trot out their big arsenal in the form of the blood libels and conspiracy theories and whatnot.

It's all very predictable, very formulaic and very tiresome. Nobody rallies day after day after day against self-determination for Turks or Swedes or Japanese. The fact that they do so against the Jewish state indicates a prejudice of such magnitude that there is really only one explanation that suffices in the vast number of cases. If that tiny sliver of land called Israel were not the home of Jews, it would not be under constant attack. Anybody pretending otherwise is simply spinning propaganda aimed towards their real agenda.
 

vergiss

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Yes. Because absoloutely every Jew shares the same opinions and religious beliefs, just as every Christian believes that contraception is unacceptable and fortune telling is a sin.
 

danarhea

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Gardener said:
150 years ago, it was a common tactic among those advocating slavery to point out the attitudes of a small number of house slaves who voiced opinions supporting their own slavery. This ruse was used as a way to garner support for their racism and degredation of others.

It is a favorite ploy among today's antisemites to point out that very small number of Jews who voice opinions against the Jewish state, and again, for the same reason. They are attempting to garner support for their prejudice -- a prejudice manifested in their desire to delegitimize the one tiny place in the world where Jews can call their own and can be afforded that same sense of self-determination afforded other peoples.

It's such a transparant ruse, really, for the overwhelming number of anti-zionists are antisemites, and this attempted obfuscation of that fact is but part of their overall arsenal of rhetorec. "ooh, look -- even these Jews agree with us!" they relish, and as they embellish their hateful agenda, the next step is to dig up folks like Israel Shahak and other Jewish nutjobs who are so self-hating as to be virulently antisemitic, themselves, and then proceed to trot out their big arsenal in the form of the blood libels and conspiracy theories and whatnot.

It's all very predictable, very formulaic and very tiresome. Nobody rallies day after day after day against self-determination for Turks or Swedes or Japanese. The fact that they do so against the Jewish state indicates a prejudice of such magnitude that there is really only one explanation that suffices in the vast number of cases. If that tiny sliver of land called Israel were not the home of Jews, it would not be under constant attack. Anybody pretending otherwise is simply spinning propaganda aimed towards their real agenda.

Its not a few. It is many Orthodox Jews.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

That is but one organization. While you attempt to smear me as an antisemite because of my views, many Orthodox Jews see Zionism as idolatry.

Oh, and by the way, you dont know me at all, certainly not enough to make your hate speeches against me the way you just did. My mother's maiden name was Weinrich. Of course, now you will attempt to convince others here that I hated my own mother, and maybe I wanted her exterminated. Right?

In your own words, It's all very predictable, very formulaic and very tiresome. Yes it is. I am talking about the smear jobs you and your ilk attempt to make on others, who believe differently than you. It is just plain sick.
 

Gardener

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I have ilk. Wow. I'm honored. I've been waiting my whole life for some ilk, and now I have ilk, so I'm ilkless no more. .

Thanks for letting me know.
 

vergiss

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danarhea said:
Its not a few. It is many Orthodox Jews.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

That is but one organization. While you attempt to smear me as an antisemite because of my views, many Orthodox Jews see Zionism as idolatry.

Oh, and by the way, you dont know me at all, certainly not enough to make your hate speeches against me the way you just did. My mother's maiden name was Weinrich. Of course, now you will attempt to convince others here that I hated my own mother, and maybe I wanted her exterminated. Right?

In your own words, It's all very predictable, very formulaic and very tiresome. Yes it is. I am talking about the smear jobs you and your ilk attempt to make on others, who believe differently than you. It is just plain sick.

It is not "many", any more than Christians who want to bomb abortion clinics are many. :lol: You speak as if it's some significant amount. Dude, I hate to burst your bubble, but there are "Jews" who believe that Jesus was the Messiah, too. :roll:

My mother's name was Rosser. Your point?
 
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