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Why Losing Crimea Will Destroy Putin

Rogue Valley said:
No one is using nukes in Ukraine. Putin didn't use nukes to protect occupied Kherson (Russian forces fled)

WMD's would change the "hands-off" position of the US/NATO immediately.

You don't seem to understand plain English..... Crimea is Ukrainian land

General Assembly Adopts Resolution Calling upon States Not to Recognize Changes in Status of Crimea Region
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Not likely. The US is not going to risk New York or LA for Ukraine, no matter how much that triggers you.
 
Rogue Valley said:
A Putin-rower actually.
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It looks like the moderators should check if you're using a sock account. I can't name the other account that uses that term (because I would likely get an infraction) often, but I'm sure that several people know who I'm referring to.
 
W_Heisenberg said:
If the railway on the Crimean bridge remains inoperable, and if the Ukrainians can successfully cut off the land bridge then the Russian position in Crimea would become impossible to maintain.

The Russians would be forced to retreat, or, more likely, they would try to negotiate an end to the war in a way that would be more on Ukraine's terms
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But just as impossible to take over, then.
 
noonereal said:
Nope, just a realist.
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Your "realism" would lead to a world where a nuclear power could do whatever it wanted because people would, being realists, see that any attempt to resist might provoke the brute and cause it to throw nukes around.

That would be a far worse world.

The thing people need to remember is that it's always a choice between least worst choice; that circumstances beyond our control dictate the options available to us. Russia changed the calculation with this latest invasion. "Do nothing and things will proceed the same" is not actually an option here. You may have convinced yourself that option exists, but it doesn't. The choice is: (1) let Russia do what it wants, (2) pick from a list of possible responses involving resistance sufficient for Russia to be deterred in the future.

There's no mild options. It's which gamble you're more comfortable with, and I'm not comfortable with "let Russia rebuild the USSR", which is the end point of your option. Go with that and they'd still be just as nuclear armed. They'd be more emboldened and they'd have killed millions, torturing/raping/kidnapping more along the way as they rampaged through non-NATO countries. And then direct gamesmanship with NATO would begin all over again. It'd be the same damn 'realist' bargain as we're facing now, but starting from a significantly worse position.

Doing nothing because Russia has nukes is not realist. It's defeatist.
 
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Yakshi said:
Interesting video. My knowledge of russian history before the breakup of the ussr is weak, so it was good to get some insight into why exactly russians see Crimea as a russian jewel and why its illegal annexation by russia was so overwhelmingly popular among russians.

All I knew was that it was perhaps the most popular russian vacation spot once upon a time.
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Besides the fact the Russians like the beaches in Crimea? Russia has always felt that all its conquests are eternal and will forever belong to them. They are a small and unremarkable country with limited resources, and harsh climate and their conquests are what made them great in their mind. Also remember that Putin feels the fall of the USSR was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century.
 
Antiwar said:
It looks like the moderators should check if you're using a sock account. I can't name the other account that uses that term (because I would likely get an infraction) often, but I'm sure that several people know who I'm referring to.
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Let us know if someone owns the © to "Putin-rowers" or "Trumpers " etc.
 
justoneman said:
Crimea is Ukrainian .
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United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 was adopted on 27 March 2014 by the sixty-eighth session of the United Nations General Assembly in response to the Russian annexation of Crimea and entitled "territorial integrity of Ukraine"..... affirmed the General Assembly's commitment to the territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders and underscored the invalidity of the 2014 Crimean referendum.
 
Mr Person said:
Your "realism" would lead to a world where a nuclear power could do whatever it wanted because people would, being realists, see that any attempt to resist might provoke the brute and cause it to throw nukes around.

That would be a far worse world.

The thing people need to remember is that it's always a choice between least worst choice; that circumstances beyond our control dictate the options available to us. Russia changed the calculation with this latest invasion. "Do nothing and things will proceed the same" is not actually an option here. You may have convinced yourself that option exists, but it doesn't. The choice is: (1) let Russia do what it wants, (2) pick from a list of possible responses involving resistance sufficient for Russia to be deterred in the future.

There's no mild options. It's which gamble you're more comfortable with, and I'm not comfortable with "let Russia rebuild the USSR", which is the end point of your option. Go with that and they'd still be just as nuclear armed. They'd be more emboldened and they'd have killed millions, torturing/raping/kidnapping more along the way as they rampaged through non-NATO countries. And then direct gamesmanship with NATO would begin all over again. It'd be the same damn 'realist' bargain as we're facing now, but starting from a significantly worse position.

Doing nothing because Russia has nukes is not realist. It's defeatist.
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What makes this so hard for so many?
Ukraine is not in NATO and is not in our sphere .

Enough already.
 
noonereal said:
What makes this so hard for so many?
Ukraine is not in NATO and is not in our sphere .

Enough already.
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If reality is not bearing out your realism, then of what value is your claim to be a realist?
 
noonereal said:
Seriously?

He has chemicals and nukes. Crimea is Russian territory. He will defend the homeland.
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To be clear, you believe Putin will use nuclear weapons or chemical weapons to keep Crimea from being liberated by the Ukrainians? That's what you're going with?

By the way, it's not Russian territory. It's Ukrainian territory. You don't have to lie on Putin's behalf. He does enough lying on his own.

noonereal said:
Good ****in grief.
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Yeah, that's what I think about your sycophantic pro-Russian, pro-Putin, tankie posts.
 
Yakshi said:
If reality is not bearing out your realism, then of what value is your claim to be a realist?
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Wtf?

You really think Ukraine is in NATO and located on our boarder not Russia's? 🤡
Maybe you need to get acquainted with my reality. Its fact driven.
 
Yakshi said:
Interesting video. My knowledge of russian history before the breakup of the ussr is weak, so it was good to get some insight into why exactly russians see Crimea as a russian jewel and why its illegal annexation by russia was so overwhelmingly popular among russians.
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It is all about the beaches... they are amazing and the water is great.

1672523560623.webp

taxisolnce.ru

Popular beaches on the Crimean peninsula: impressive and comfortable holidays

The best beaches in the Crimea which you should definitely visit in 2022: developed and popular, wild and secluded places.
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Yakshi said:
All I knew was that it was perhaps the most popular russian vacation spot once upon a time.
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