JC Callender
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2013
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Religious extremism get my vote!
Any idea why they're so extreme? The Japanese seemed pretty extreme as well.
What's up with Iraq?
Japan and Germany weren't exactly stable Democracies before WW2 and they turned out pretty well. What's up with Iraq?
I know there are many different religious factions fighting for power, but I have a theory that the men don't want to give up the control they have over their women. I believe that may be the biggest issue.
The Japanese were extreme in support and belief in their emperor it's true, but as part of the WWII surrender & peace negotiations Hirohito had to disavow and separate the emperor as having divine power over the country, which he did indeed do publicly & ceremoniously. This was considered a critical Ally requirement, and for good reason.Any idea why they're so extreme? The Japanese seemed pretty extreme as well.
Yes and no....
They were extreme in their fanaticism in combat as much as they were extreme in their subservience when (finally) defeated.
Greetings, JC. :2wave:
Weren't their photos of women, during George Bush's term of office, proudly showing their purple thumbs after they voted in Iraq? That didn't last long, sad to say.... :thumbdown
The Japanese were extreme in support and belief in their emperor it's true, but as part of the WWII surrender & peace negotiations Hirohito had to disavow and separate the emperor as having divine power over the country, which he did indeed do publicly & ceremoniously. This was considered a critical Ally requirement, and for good reason.
The Sykes-Picot Agreement, which carved Iraq as we know it today, trapping ethnic and sectarian hostilities within those dreaded, straight lines, should shoulder some (not all) of the blame.
The Iraqis are highly tribal and they've had the boot of foreigners on their neck for hundreds of years. All the tensions you see now - Sunni/Shi'a, Arab/Kurd - were inevitable once the genie was set out the bottle. Strongmen, like Saddam, have managed to contain some of the angst, but the Western invasion unleashed an unstoppable Kraken.
By contrast, Japan and Germany are both homogeneous states with highly innovative peoples, which might explain their success, but their affinity for open democracy in the modern age is easy to understand. Germany has a long, storied contribution to the European Enlightenment, and Japan has been a hub of intellectual activity since at least China's inward decline some five hundred years ago. Both nations succumbed to totalitarianism in the 20th century, but that was a function of the material conditions of post-WWII (in Germany's case) and Japan's boom after its mighty industrialization.
Thoughtful post, thanks! This is the first time I remember hearing of this agreement, and after reading up on it I feel pretty foolish that I haven't heard of this yet. Explains a lot.
Basically, the French and British were thinking about their own imperial interests at the time. Any sensible plan would have redrawn boundaries along religious and ethnic lines. But if that had happened, the British would have lost control of the Mediterranean, an Arab superstate might have arisen, spooking the British, etc.
I know we love "diversity" here in the West, but in certain areas of the world it merely intensifies tribalism since it increases competition for resources among groups in defined spaces. You simply cannot have states where the government itself becomes a battleground for rivaling groups. I think it was Lee Kuan Yew who lamented the problem of democracy in heterogeneous states since all individuals vote for what benefits their group, and the largest group votes itself largess of the treasury.
Japan and Germany weren't exactly stable Democracies before WW2 and they turned out pretty well. What's up with Iraq?
I know there are many different religious factions fighting for power, but I have a theory that the men don't want to give up the control they have over their women. I believe that may be the biggest issue.
Hi there Pg! :kissy:
I remember those pics. Unfortunately, I think we would have to simply take over Iraq and install our Constitution in order for it to work.
Btw, sorry, but extreme heat more than likely coming your way. It'll be 90 here tomorrow. :shock: :sun Hope you have a wonderful weekend either way!!
Japan and Germany weren't exactly stable Democracies before WW2 and they turned out pretty well. What's up with Iraq? I know there are many different religious factions fighting for power, but I have a theory that the men don't want to give up the control they have over their women. I believe that may be the biggest issue.
The Sykes-Picot Agreement, which carved Iraq as we know it today, trapping ethnic and sectarian hostilities within those dreaded, straight lines, should shoulder some (not all) of the blame.
The Iraqis are highly tribal and they've had the boot of foreigners on their neck for hundreds of years. All the tensions you see now - Sunni/Shi'a, Arab/Kurd - were inevitable once the genie was set out the bottle. Strongmen, like Saddam, have managed to contain some of the angst, but the Western invasion unleashed an unstoppable Kraken.
By contrast, Japan and Germany are both homogeneous states with highly innovative peoples, which might explain their success, but their affinity for open democracy in the modern age is easy to understand. Germany has a long, storied contribution to the European Enlightenment, and Japan has been a hub of intellectual activity since at least China's inward decline some five hundred years ago. Both nations succumbed to totalitarianism in the 20th century, but that was a function of the material conditions of post-WWII (in Germany's case) and Japan's boom after its mighty industrialization.
Religious extremism gets my vote!
Japan and Germany weren't exactly stable Democracies before WW2 and they turned out pretty well. What's up with Iraq?
I know there are many different religious factions fighting for power, but I have a theory that the men don't want to give up the control they have over their women. I believe that may be the biggest issue.
Would you say the Japanese are honorable, in that they fought with everything they had to win but then accepted defeat reasonably and strove for the best under their new circumstances?
they swallowed their pride and adopted our system of market capitalism and liberal democracy.
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