Why is there NOT a war on opioids?

[Absentglare]

Once again, deals with abuse. What is so hard to grasp here?

Look, you took at swing at comparing pot to hydrocodone, and it was a wild miss due to your ignorance on the subject. Time to stop swinging.

Believe me, i am no stranger to any of these drugs.

 

[clownboy]

That's not true. The only way to avoid addiction is to never use them.

Barring that, they should be used as little as possible, and only as directed.

They are still dangerous.

You're plain wrong and uneducated on this, changing your goalposts and backing slowly away isn't going to work for you.

 

[clownboy]

Believe me, i am no stranger to any of these drugs.

So now you're an MD or a pharmacist? Taking drugs does not give you the education you need to evaluate them in this way.

 

[Riveroaks]

That's just because the drug companies have overwhelmingly ensured that Americans have abundant access to heroin. There are all sorts of substitutes.

Wait until YOU have surgery ABS -- it is inevitable.

Tumor, cancer, liver, gall bladder, appendix, pancreas, thyroid, joints -- your body is loaded with ticking time bombs. Trust me.

 

[Riveroaks]

So now you're an MD or a pharmacist? Taking drugs does not give you the education you need to evaluate them in this way.

He is a conspiracy theorist.

 

[Absentglare]

You're plain wrong and uneducated on this, changing your goalposts and backing slowly away isn't going to work for you.

So now you're an MD or a pharmacist? Taking drugs does not give you the education you need to evaluate them in this way.

Lol, when did i say i took them ? Please, i have a thorough understanding while you are denying basic facts i've already demonstrated :

Opioids and related disorders | Definition and Patient Education

"Anyone who uses opioids is at risk for developing an addiction."

"Using opioids, especially in a way not prescribed by a doctor, can cause addiction. Opioids are highly addictive, so even infrequent use can lead to physical dependence. Habitual opioid use causes changes in the brain, specifically in the pain center. This brings on addiction."

 

[Absentglare]

Wait until YOU have surgery ABS -- it is inevitable.

Tumor, cancer, liver, gall bladder, appendix, pancreas, thyroid, joints -- your body is loaded with ticking time bombs. Trust me.

I'm not saying we should outlaw opioids. But if we're going to outlaw all drugs that are bad, it's obvious we should outlaw opioids.

It's hypocrisy. Why do we let these drug dealers get rich killing our children? While some of you will claim hyperbole, that is literally what is happening on some scale.

 

[Riveroaks]

I'm not saying we should outlaw opioids. But if we're going to outlaw all drugs that are bad, it's obvious we should outlaw opioids.

It's hypocrisy. Why do we let these drug dealers get rich killing our children? While some of you will claim hyperbole, that is literally what is happening on some scale.

Don't you have anything else to do today besides rant about conspiracies ??

 

[Northern Light]

More people are turned into addicts by prescription meds than anything else, and doctors doll them out like candy. Modern medicine does have a treatise of ethics around mandatory pain treatment, however the corruption goes way, way beyond that. Doctors are getting patients hooked on opiates and then pulling the plug without any tapering, making a lot of people turn to street analogues or heroin to get relief from withdrawal symptoms.

Prescription meds in general kill more people every year than all the other scheduled narcotics combined, and alcohol and tobacco. Yet it's all kosher as far as government and industry are concerned.

The Hippocratic Oath is being ignored in favor of profit. That's what happens when you focus on treating symptoms and not real cures. People are dependent on your products for life and line your pockets.

 

[MACS-24]

I'm not saying we should outlaw opioids. But if we're going to outlaw all drugs that are bad, it's obvious we should outlaw opioids.

WTH
Some one is high on opioids.

 

[JasperL]

Wow, you really aren't reading or listening. That's about ABUSE of opioids.

The problem is the line between legitimate "use" and abuse is very fuzzy, it's not really clear when someone crosses it, and differs pretty greatly between individuals. I've met a bunch of addicts to opioids and many (maybe most) of them started using after an injury with legal prescriptions for legitimate purposes.

One good old boy (meant as a compliment) will always stick with me. He owned a little construction company and was a smart, strong, hard working guy until he fell off a roof one day and broke his femur. So he got on opioids for the initial pain, then kept on them because he had to keep working while healing to keep his little business going, and just 18 months after the accident he's homeless and broke and a full blown addict. And the point is he became an addict while taking opioids for legitimate pain, but when the pain went away couldn't get off them, and this is a guy who didn't lack will and determination and had never had a problem with substance abuse.

 

[JasperL]

Wrong, absolutely. Now, any level of ABUSE may indeed lead to addiction in certain individuals.

Well, you're close, any level of USE may indeed lead to addiction in certain individuals.

 

[JasperL]

WTH
Some one is high on opioids.

Not really - there is no comparison between the risks of opioids and pot. There are 0.00 overdose deaths per year with pot and thousands per year with opioids, and a whole lot of those addicts began with a good, legal prescription after surgery or injury and got addicted, with having never in their lives had a problem with drugs or alcohol, living responsible lives, etc.

And it's a huge issue with some doctors. My mother in law had a bad hip and it's a long story but instead of treating her, they handed her prescriptions for opioids. After we'd gotten her TREATED for the ISSUE, we took her home and couldn't believe all the pills and prescriptions for pills (opioids and their derivatives) she had lying around. A drug dealers jackpot. And they're $3 at the drug store for 60 pills or something. Thankfully she doesn't have the 'addict' genes and so is OK, but that's the kind of crap that happens all the time - write a script for pain, on to another patient. Easier and quicker than treating some chronic problem, patient's happy, and only 1 of 10 ends up with a problem of addiction or so!

 

[MACS-24]

Not really - there is no comparison between the risks of opioids and pot. There are 0.00 overdose deaths per year with pot and thousands per year with opioids, and a whole lot of those addicts began with a good, legal prescription after surgery or injury and got addicted, with having never in their lives had a problem with drugs or alcohol, living responsible lives, etc.

And it's a huge issue with some doctors. My mother in law had a bad hip and it's a long story but instead of treating her, they handed her prescriptions for opioids. After we'd gotten her TREATED for the ISSUE, we took her home and couldn't believe all the pills and prescriptions for pills (opioids and their derivatives) she had lying around. A drug dealers jackpot. And they're $3 at the drug store for 60 pills or something. Thankfully she doesn't have the 'addict' genes and so is OK, but that's the kind of crap that happens all the time - write a script for pain, on to another patient. Easier and quicker than treating some chronic problem, patient's happy, and only 1 of 10 ends up with a problem of addiction or so!

Reread what I quoted and what I said. It had nothing to do with what you responded with.

 

[Absentglare]

I don't understand why there's backlash here.

I've cited that opioids are related to heroin, that they're viciously addictive, that they're responsible for 55% of all drug overdoses, that their prescription has quadrupled since the 90s, and that any use can lead to addiction.

Why do we continue to ignore the plight of opioids in the war on drugs ?

I'm looking for an actual argument, not this attitude of "**** you for trying to take these pills from people."

If we decide that we should ban drugs that are harmful like heroin, why do we legalize a drug that is essentially equivalent to heroin ? Is it because we don't want people to grow poppies and make their own ? We need to make the plant illegal, then we can make a huge markup on the pill ? What is it ?

 

[Absentglare]

Reread what I quoted and what I said. It had nothing to do with what you responded with.

You're missing the point that i can't find a good reason "to outlaw drugs that are bad" which is my central problem. Why are we outlawing marijuana and heroin, and then making these things legal ?

I want to know what exempts opioids from the war on drugs.

 

[Grand Mal]

Opioids are chemically similar to heroin. They are prescribed for serious pain. For some reason, we consider marijuana as more dangerous than hydrocodone or oxycodone. If we have a war on drugs, why do we exclude these ones ?

Who Is Responsible for the Pain-Pill Epidemic? - The New Yorker

FTA, emphasis mine :

"Between 1999 and 2010, sales of these “opioid analgesics”—medications like Vicodin, Percocet, and OxyContin—quadrupled."

"As narcotics prescriptions surged, so did deaths from opioid-analgesic overdoses—from about four thousand to almost seventeen thousand. Studies have shown that patients who receive narcotics for chronic pain are less likely to recover function, and are less likely to go back to work. The potential side effects of prescription narcotics include constipation, sexual dysfunction, cognitive impairment, addiction, and overdosing. When patients receive narcotics for long periods, they can even become more sensitive to pain, a condition called hyperalgesia."

"And then there are the real-life Walter Whites. I once helped care for a patient with lung cancer who wasn’t taking his narcotics, unbeknownst to his doctors. This patient’s cancer had spread to his bones and other organs, which can be incredibly painful. But he was selling his prescription narcotics to help support his wife and himself. So when given these high-dose narcotics in the hospital, he overdosed—though not fatally, fortunately."

"In a policy drafted by several people with ties to narcotics makers, including Haddox, the Federation of State Medical Boards called on the boards to punish doctors for inadequately treating pain, according to the Wall Street Journal. The Federation also reportedly accepted money from pharmaceutical firms to produce and distribute narcotics-prescribing guidelines."

"In 2007, Purdue Pharma and three of its top executives pleaded guilty to criminal charges that they had misled the F.D.A., clinicians, and patients about the risks of OxyContin addiction and abuse by aggressively marketing the drug to providers and patients as a safe alternative to short-acting narcotics."

A 'war on drugs', any drugs, is ridiculous. Just because people shouldn't do something doesn't mean it should be illegal. The only thing drug prohibition has accomplished is to fill the jails and make some very nasty people very rich. How long does it take to realize that a mistake is being made, for the second time?
It's an industry, though, this 'war on drugs', an industry that employs thousands and the political will to solve the problem is probably a long way away.

 

[Grand Mal]

Wrong, absolutely. Now, any level of ABUSE may indeed lead to addiction in certain individuals.

Are you saying that no-one gets addicted to drugs from following their prescription?

 

[MACS-24]

You're missing the point that i can't find a good reason "to outlaw drugs that are bad" which is my central problem. Why are we outlawing marijuana and heroin, and then making these things legal ?

I want to know what exempts opioids from the war on drugs.

It had nothing to do with your misguided "point". You said: "I'm not saying we should outlaw opioids. then it's obvious we should outlaw opioids.

 

[JasperL]

Reread what I quoted and what I said. It had nothing to do with what you responded with.

Well, in a sane world, we'd be very, very worried about opioids and spend not more than a few minutes per year worrying about pot... I guess you agree and I missed the sarcasm. Sorry.

 

[JasperL]

Are you saying that no-one gets addicted to drugs from following their prescription?

Yeah, almost surely thousands/year get addicted that way. It's sad to see.

 

[Absentglare]

It had nothing to do with your misguided "point". You said: "I'm not saying we should outlaw opioids. then it's obvious we should outlaw opioids.

No, i didn't. This is your misunderstanding. My claim is not "we should outlaw opioids."

My claim is that "if we outlaw drugs that are bad, we should outlaw opioids."

My statement is meaning to convey that i don't agree with "outlawing all drugs that are bad."

Here is the original quote :

I'm not saying we should outlaw opioids. But if we're going to outlaw all drugs that are bad, it's obvious we should outlaw opioids.

It's hypocrisy. Why do we let these drug dealers get rich killing our children? While some of you will claim hyperbole, that is literally what is happening on some scale.

 

[MACS-24]

Well, in a sane world, we'd be very, very worried about opioids and spend not more than a few minutes per year worrying about pot... I guess you agree and I missed the sarcasm. Sorry.

My opinion is worry about opioid abuse. Opioids are very important in the medical field. I don't smoke it but I am very pro-pot.

 

[JasperL]

It had nothing to do with your misguided "point". You said: "I'm not saying we should outlaw opioids. then it's obvious we should outlaw opioids.

Well, you left out a pretty crucial "but if" in that passage. :roll:

The point is clear to me. Our drug policy is insane - we worry about people smoking weed that's less harmful than cigarettes or alcohol, and when the real "drug" killer is given out like candy at many doctors offices and hospitals, legally, making billions in profits for publicly traded behemoths on the resulting addictions.

 

[MACS-24]

Well, you left out a pretty crucial "but if" in that passage. :roll:

The point is clear to me. Our drug policy is insane - we worry about people smoking weed that's less harmful than cigarettes or alcohol, and when the real "drug" killer is given out like candy at many doctors offices and hospitals, legally, making billions in profits for publicly traded behemoths on the resulting addictions.

:roll: Did I say ANYTHING about drug policy?