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Why is CRT a hot button issue and how did it become one?

Tahuyaman said:
Nothing that you would understand. It looks like drank the kool-aid.
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Well I certainly don't understand what you wrote, above, but if you have any evidence, I'd love to hear it. In my limited review, there doesn't seem to be any one accepted source describing CRT, but rather there seems to be a fluid and continuous discussion throughout the literature. Given that, I obviously don't expect that you have read them all (who has the time, mirite?) but are there any particular papers putting forward CRT theories that you found especially concerning?
 

I never said that "wealth leads to better outcomes." Don't put words in my mouth. I was simply mentioning that here in the USA, the wealthy as a "class" don't typically give a rats patootie what another wealthy person's race or gender is. There will always be individuals of that class who are "racist" of course. But in any case, I don't hold that all racism exists in any single race. I hold that anyone of any race can be racist towards others of a different race.

As for "disproportionately" poor? Isn't that typically how it works regardless of race when one group has held power over another, either by conquest or other system of dominance. But it is also relative, depending on the metrics one uses. For example, using this Census data from 2019:

https://www.census.gov/library/stor...-hispanics-reached-historic-lows-in-2019.html

So while one acknowledges that the poverty rates of Black and Hispanics were 2 times that of Whites when compared by individual population, White's still make up 41.6% of the total population in poverty. That does not equate to "systemic racism," just the normal kinds of differences one would find in any cultural mix where one race has maintained numeric as well as socio-political dominance.

IMO it would be a more apt example of systemic racism to look at a society like South Africa, where for a period of time a MINORITY dominated the MAJORITY of the population, and maintained power through actively over systemic racism.


Yes I am sure one would like us to believe this new definition of racism. IMO the Left loves to modify the meaning of words. Once upon a time there was "systemic racism," and we used to call it Institutional Racism. The laws openly delineated different rights and privileges for different races, and generally members of the White race believed they were superior to all other races. Of course in China, the Chinese believed THEY were superior, and so did the Japanese, and I am fairly certain that the Zulu did in South Africa until the British and Boers showed up with higher technology. I don't think you could have found a place on the Earth where one group or another didn't thnk they were "superior" to everyone else. (Maybe the Inuit?)

But times change, and so can people. So I dispute that the USA currently exhibits "systemic racism." Instead we are talking about "culture," and like the "whiteness" poster provided by the Smithsonian...that culture works for anyone who wants to succeed in the USA regardless of race.

Meanwhile I think it is BS designed to divide us into conflicting groups when using ANY form of Critical THEORY. That is just another tool of Marxism to create social conflict and achieve the "ideal Socialist State" (some idealistic form of Communism.)
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Yes I am sure one would like us to believe this new definition of racism. IMO the Left loves to modify the meaning of words.
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Eh, I'm not too fussed about the name, personally. You can call it whatever you want - you either agree there is a problem and work to find solutions, or you don't. If you have just been arguing semantics this whole time, then all I can say is... ok?


Captain Adverse said:
I think it is BS designed to divide us into conflicting groups, just another tool of Marxism to create social conflict and achieve the "ideal Socialist State" (some idealistic form of Communism.)
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Ah thanks for this - based on the message I originally quoted, I had thought there might be the possibility for some informed debate here. I was starting to suspect otherwise, and confirmation is always nice.
 
nucky9 said:
...Ah thanks for this - based on the message I originally quoted, I had thought there might be the possibility for some informed debate here. I was starting to suspect otherwise, and confirmation is always nice.
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If you don't know the foundations of both Critical Theory (and this it's offshoot CRT) in Marxist ideology, then I urge you to "inform" yourself about The Frankfurt School, and it's Institute for Social Research which transferred to Columbia University circa 1933.

Nuff said.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Sorry but I honestly think that the amount of overreaction we're seeing is largely manufactured and astro-turfed to the hilt.
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:-/ I think that, if the left decides this is all astro-turf, they are potentially in for a 2010-style event. People get pretty active pretty quick when they sense that something is messing with their kids - don't mistake your lack of concern for others'.


Eh, I think you'll find that people are generally going to remain Not in favor of their children being racially discriminated against.
 

So now this is, according to you, lack of concern? That's pretty funny.

 

People also get active pretty quick when they wake up and realize that they are being manipulated by phony moral panics.
Care to take a whack at how many families have been destroyed by that entire Qanon "save the children" bullshit?

Here's a hint...almost ten times as many as were torn apart by the whole 1980's McMartin Preschool fueled "Ritual Satanic Sexual Abuse" nonsense, where thousands of "therapists" MANUFACTURED implanted false memories in the minds of child patients that their parents were sexually deviant monsters.
 

Happy to: Systemic racism is not racial bigotry. It is the legacy of racial bigotry, the aftermath of it, even if that form of active racial bigotry no longer exists. Black Americans are less successful all-around because their culture was forged in the fires of legal and cultural racial bigotry, and before that legal slavery. Even after their ancestors were freed from bondage, they were legally prevented from success by white people for centuries. While that is no longer the case today, black communities are still poor. Black children are still raised by parents who never had the money for education, and grandparents who were in most cases legally prevented from getting an education. The values passed down to them in aggregate came from these people: People who were raised and learned to survive in an oppressed culture. Technically lifting that oppression on the legal books in modern times doesn't magically heal the culture and return it to parity with the culture of their historic oppressors overnight.

People whose mothers and fathers couldn't afford an education, and who come from a long line of poor uneducated parents who have few technical skills and a history of low paying manual labor jobs, have a more difficult time finding success and wealth in America regardless of race. These types of people are VASTLY overrepresented in the black community. In fact, it is almost ubiquitous. It isn't just a few unfortunate families in the neighborhood. In most cases it is everyone in the community. The reason for this is not because there is something inherently wrong with black people and not white people, it is because white people forcibly prevented their ancestors from becoming educated and working in skilled positions. These people passed down their values and traditions to their children, who grew up and did the same. No, this does not PREVENT an individual from rising above his or her origins, and plenty do and find success in America. But it makes it MORE DIFFICULT for them to do so compared to the average white person who comes from a culture that was never oppressed, and therefore in aggregate it means that black people on average are going to be less successful and commit more crimes due to their impoverished cultural upbringing. Obviously we are talking averages here. Not all black individuals fall into the average, and some black families are highly successful. But on average, black communities are much poorer than white communities and as would be expected are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime.

In short: While it IS the culture of the black community that is to blame for the higher rates of crime and lower education, it is the fault of early white culture in America that black culture is in the state that it is in. Opponents of CRT prefer to stop at blaming black people for their own culture, and refuse to look at the larger picture and view black culture not in isolation, but as a part of a larger melting pot of American culture: one in which the black subculture was forced into poverty by the dominant white culture in the past, and the reverberations from this are still affecting the black community on EVERY LEVEL.

This is why blacks commit 52% of the murders and 54% of the robberies. Because white Americans were horribly ignorant and irresponsible in the past, forcibly imported their ancestors into a foreign country, and made a complete mess of their subsequent culture. And as part of the broad umbrella of American culture, it is ALL of our jobs to help clean up that mess.
 
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Tahuyaman said:
It absolutely does. It also promotes the absurd and offensive notion that if one is white, they are naturally inclined to be a racist and White supremacist.
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This is false. You have been fooled by conservative propaganda meant to terrify you in order to trick you into voting against your own interests.
 
dixon01767 said:
CRT isnt history. Hannah Jones in response to criticism from historians regarding her 1619 project said it is not history, but instead an "origin story".
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No, dude. That's just part of the name of the book she's releasing in a few months. Back in the real world, the intro to the 1619 Project states that "It aims to reframe the country’s history by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of black Americans at the very center of our national narrative." (Emphasis added)

dixon01767 said:
And presenting CRT as theory of understanding or explaining society when it is instead an attempt to change society is false propaganda. Its a philosophy.
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The advocates of CRT are very open about the fact that they want to change society. They want to make societies less racist. I wonder why you're opposed to that...?

Oh, and the opponents of the 1619 Project and CRT are also trying to change society. Care to speculate on what changes they want to make...?
 
lwf said:
This is false. You have been fooled by conservative propaganda meant to terrify you in order to trick you into voting against your own interests.
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CRT itself is the offensive and destructive propaganda. Many of the more radical proponents have even said it’s propaganda.

CRT indoctrinates our youth into believing white people are inherently racist by default. It is possibly the most destructive theory ever introduced into our education system. Nothing good or positive results from spreading this malignancy.
 
Tahuyaman said:
It absolutely does. It also promotes the absurd and offensive notion that if one is white, they are naturally inclined to be a racist and White supremacist.
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Show us exactly where it does that. Cite your source, and don't make it a right-wing hack site.
 
jaypatriot said:
Why on earth would I want to "study" CRT? For what reason?
I have read the five tenets of CRT....
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No, you haven't. You've read right-winger's partisan misrepresentation of CRT.

Its actual tenets are:
• "Race" is a social construct, with little basis in biology, and one that changes when it's convenient for the dominant group
• Racism is ordinary and considered normal, not an aberration, of most societies
• "Color blind" approaches to fixing racism can only impact the most blatant forms of discrimination
• Racism benefits the dominant group, and thus incentivizes many against fixing racism
• Because of the impact of racism, minorities often understand aspects of racism that most whites do not

You're welcome.
 
Phys251 said:
Show us exactly where it does that. Cite your source, and don't make it a right-wing hack site.
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Jeebus. What is it with this liberal tactic of always deny? Are these people simply unwilling or unable to support their side based on the merits?
 
Tahuyaman said:
Jeebus. What is it with this liberal tactic of always deny? Are these people simply unwilling or unable to support their side based on the merits?
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This is the claim you made:

Tahuyaman said:
It absolutely does. It also promotes the absurd and offensive notion that if one is white, they are naturally inclined to be a racist and White supremacist.
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Where is your proof of that claim?
 
Not one liberal can support the teachings of CRT based on its merits. All they do is deny and demand more examples of its destructiveness from those who oppose it.
 
Tahuyaman said:
It absolutely does. It also promotes the absurd and offensive notion that if one is white, they are naturally inclined to be a racist and White supremacist.
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That comment is 100% factual and no left wing supporter of CRT can present anything to refute it. They just deny.
 
gbg3 said:
I just saw (on Fox News) an interview
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Watching a Fox interview without disgust or dismay is like drinking poison without barfing.
 

CRT is supposed to prevent the resurgence of far-right Nazism, yet you think it's Marxist?

Okay.

Oh, and while we're talking about the Institute for Social Research and Nazism, who burned whose books in the 1930s? And what was in those books?
 
nucky9 said:
Anyway, I have little interest in trying to convince you that systemic racism exists, because I frankly doubt it is possible, no matter how compelling an argument I or anyone else makes.
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"Standardized tests have become the most effective racist weapon" Kendi

No one denies that standardized testing exist. We just deny its characterization as systemic racism.
 
Phys251 said:
Watching a Fox interview without disgust or dismay is like drinking poison without barfing.
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Couldnt find anything Steele said to dispute, could you?
 
This is a myth propagated by political conservatives with an agenda.
 
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