Only the racist ones.Whites who make over $50k have a vested interest in being against CRT.
Well... You kinda shouldn't.Searched, and among the analyses was this: "Is CRT a way of understanding how American racism has shaped public policy, or a divisive discourse that pits people of color against white people? Liberals and conservatives are in sharp disagreement." It seems that CRT is like the parable of the two blind men feeling an elephant and defining it differently. I assume that it is both.
I did explain everything, based on my understanding/thinking - systemic racism is essentially an extension of classism, along with, at times, the overt racism that you do acknowledge exists. You said there is clear evidence against it, but refuse explain that evidence to me in more detail. It is true, the burden is on those who believe system racism occurs to provide support, but you offered counter-evidence which I feel is easily countered, but refuse to support your position in a way that allows it to be objectively attacked. Why raise the points in the first place then, if you will simply retreat to a position of not having to prove anything when challenged? It seems intellectually dishonest to me, but YMMV.
Anyway, the whole point is that it isn't written in any law anywhere (although some make the argument regarding voting laws etc.).
Highlighting positive results for a given group - especially one that is external to the historical issues in the US - is meaningless. Rich people of any ethnicity do well, period.
Furthermore, comparing anyone to an immigrant is pointless. Immigrants are rarely average in any way and also do not have the same experiences, nor history. Again, it isn't talking about outcomes among the exceptional, but rather the average or below-average.
I mean it isn't really that hard. Assuming all else is equal (which it rarely is), do the rich and poor have equal opportunities in life? Take two identical twins that are the children of an exceptional individual and one in poverty and the other in a middle class or better environment. Which one would you bet on being more likely to have success in life?
If you agree that being rich is an advantage, then you easily explain why outcomes among black Americans are poorer, on average, even if you assume all else is equal, which it probably isn't.
Cool, but:
1. At least as of the 90s in Alabama - Alabama! - this stuff was taught. I went to school a couple of miles from the church that was bombed where the four little girls were killed, and we knew what that was, what that meant, and the kinds of people who did it. George Wallace, Selma Bridge, the Bus Boycott, they were all part of the local history and the curriculum. I believe you may be a bit more well-seasoned than I am, but, it's not like they're teaching less since I went through. If you want to shape local curricula, well, we are a public participation kind of government, and you can do that, but, I suspect you will find much of it already there.
2. I think you are conflating "I think we should teach more about the bad things that have happened in American history" with "CRT", which is a policy advocacy movement that often provides support to curricula in order to further an explicitly political agenda. Letting CRT shape history curricula and claiming that anyone who opposes that is opposing teaching history is like letting the Family Research Council shape public sex education, and then saying that anyone who disagrees with little Johnny being taught at a public school that homosexuality is perversion and a mental disease is against teaching biology - in neither case is the shaping entity interested in the subject for it's own sake, but, rather, using pieces of a subject to further a current political platform.
CRT asserts that, and more. It's the "more" part many of you leave out.You misunderstand what systemic racism is. Systemic racism does not prevent all individuals of a certain race from achieving success, nor does it refer to individual acts of racism that prevent success. A person can never have experienced any form of racial bigotry and still be the victim of systemic racism merely by being born into a system where such disparity exists. Systemic racism makes it more difficult to achieve success for a minority culture in a given society.
And on the contrary, rather than minimizing the efforts of black Americans achieving success by the dint of their own hard work and efforts, CRT celebrates their sadly unusual success in spite of walking a road with more obstacles than a member of the majority culture has, and attempts to explain why it is unusual. What is a slap in the face to black Americans who achieve success by the dint of their own hard work is to pretend that their obstacles to success were no different or more difficult than anyone else's. In the majority of cases, there are more obstacles for black Americans in American society to achieve success than white Americans. Critical Race Theory examines these obstacles and where they came from, and refers to them under the umbrella term of "systemic racism."
You say "I" misunderstand what systemic racism is? Really?
Out of curiosity, what makes YOU have such greater understanding? Where does your expertise come from? Personal experience under Jim Crow back in the day? Perhaps you were "taught" CRT in some "law school" where we are told it is only being taught?
Are you a current Teacher, who has had training in CRT and have bought into this "theory?" Enlighten me.
LOL!! You make me laugh.
Sadly unusual? Hmmm, perhaps that has something more to do with a combination of Affirmative Action and Welfare State programs which I agree are inherently systemic racism.
You make a lot of assertions, but I am proof against them. I see more obstacles being placed in front of my peers by those very programs allegedly designed to help us.
It is 2021, over 40 years since those programs were initiated, and yet despite all these special programs, typically run by Democrat controlled cities and States, spending billions of dollars, what do we see?
Our kids are still performing at the lowest levels in education. We have millions on some form of welfare, living in houses paid for by the government. Multiple kids out of wedlock, "fatherless" families feeding (often scamming) off various forms of government assistance. Meanwhile many of their father's killing each other over drugs and gang rivalries. All arguably in worse situations than most of us dealt with back in the "bad old days."
IMO you are partly right. But it is the racism of low expectations perpetrated by "do-gooders" like yourself aided by our own race grifters. All treating us like "needy backward children" dependent on government largess with no expectation of personal responsibility for our own actions. THAT is what has been holding us back as far as I am concerned.
This is correct. Systemic racism IS everywhere and it IS the reason (on a society-wide level) that black culture underperforms. And before you say it: Yes. Every black person who chooses to commit a crime is directly responsible for that crime just like every white criminal.Like standardized testing. given daily in classrooms, used by industries and governments to screen employees, and since blacks dont do as well on average, standardized testing is therefore by definition "systemic racism". Yes, "systemic racism" as defined by CRT is rampant in our society. Or laws against murder and robbery. Blacks are only 13% of the population but commit 52% of the murders and 54% of the robberies. Laws creating criminal penalties for murder and robbery disproportionately impact blacks. "Systemic racism" it is everywhere under CRT. MARK
Well... You kinda shouldn't.
"Critical Race Theory" is a specific framework for examining how racism influenced American law. It's basically only taught in law schools.
If you think affirmative action has been bad for the black community, you clearly weren't around before the program was put into place. Do you think the black community was a shining example of success in America before affirmative action was created and sent it into the toilet?
Black children have been steadily improving in education since the affirmative action program was initiated, and there are record numbers of black people in high paying positions of power. You're correct that it's not enough, however. They still underperform whites. But you are incorrect that doing nothing and leaving them to their own devices would have been better for the black community. So if the black community was even worse off before affirmative action, to what do you attribute this? To what do you attribute the disparity between black and white culture before there was affirmative action and white "do-gooders" and "race grifters?"
CRT doesn't have low expectations for black children. It explains the very real low performance of the black community in America as being a result of the legacy of racism in the United States. Do you disagree? If so, why do you think the black community historically consistently underperforms whites in the US even before Democratic policies to help them were put into place?
The reason people object to it is because it promotes judging someone based on the color of their skin. Rational people on the left and right objectThere are three reasons right wingers object to critical race theory. First, it is critical, and we know they cannot stand criticism. Second, it is about race, a topic that motivates them always, but not in a good way. CRT posits that "race" is a social construct, which sounds an awful lot like socialism, so they have to be agin' it. Third, it's a theory, which smacks of science, which is far too intellectual to be countenanced.
From the wikipedia entry.CRT asserts that, and more. It's the "more" part many of you leave out.
CRT doesn't promote judging people based on the color of their skin, it explains how a dominant culture judging another culture based on the color of their skin has partly shaped both cultures into what they are today.The reason people object to it is because it promotes judging someone based on the color of their skin. Rational people on the left and right object
This is correct. Systemic racism IS everywhere and it IS the reason (on a society-wide level) that black culture underperforms. And before you say it: Yes. Every black person who chooses to commit a crime is directly responsible for that crime just like every white criminal.
But don't you ever ask "Why do black people commit a disproportionate number of murders and robberies in the United States? Why do they underperform in education and employment?" If you do, what is your answer?
Hopefully we can agree that it is irrational and unscientific, (at best,) to simply shrug our shoulders, look at superficial biological differences, and assume that it must be their skin pigmentation that causes this. So what causes it? And don't say "their culture" because that does not answer the question. What causes their culture to underperform? Why do black people struggle with maintaining a healthy culture compared to white people in America? And don't say poverty either: What causes black people to be poorer than white people?
CRT answers this.
Still crt can be argued about...The Far Right is ALWAYS outraged against something or somebody. Immigrants, Black people, Muslims, Black people, "critical race theory," Black people,...
It absolutely does. It also promotes the absurd and offensive notion that if one is white, they are naturally inclined to be a racist and White supremacist.CRT doesn't promote judging people based on the color of their skin,
Liberal nuts abusing it don't undermine CRT anymore than white nationalists abusing it undermines the Republican Party.
maybe because it is anti white propoganda?CRT seems to be all the rage among the right and the far right. When and how did this become a thing? Who made it a thing? What, specifically is CRT, how old is it, what does it do, is it even an "it"?
I just saw (on Fox News) an interview with Shelby Steele and thought some of his words would apply to this thread and comment. The topic was the Olympics and kneeling. A comparison was being made to the 1968 Olympics and the fist in the air then. Steele discussed how much he identified with the fist in the air in 1968 but also how he supported George Foreman and his love of America in 1968.You keep using terms like "they, them, their" when referring to Black Americans, as in "what THEY think; THEIR experiences; how it affects THEM." Which begs the question, if you are not Black and have not experienced any of the alleged "systemic racism" yourself...how would you know if the allegations of such are or are not true? Even if you are "Black" how can you ignore the fact that peers ARE achieving their goals, while others are falling behind where YOU are, and others are keeping pace?
How can you dismiss the growing number of Black American voices clearly stating we are not experiencing "systemic racism?" That there is a difference between experiencing individual or even extremist group acts of racism, and being subjected to "systemic" (used to be called "institutional") racism?
How can you ignore the growing numbers of Black American voices pointing out that CRT and every other form of Identity Politics divides people into categories of oppressed and oppressor? Then demands "special privileges" in a fake effort at some unattainable ideal of "equity."
That is a slap in the face of every Black American, male and female, and IMO every other "person of color" who has ever achieved success by dint of our own hard work and efforts.
Equity is not the same as equality. Equity means holding people back in order to let the slowest runner "catch up," then everyone running at the pace of the slowest runner.
Equality, on the other hand, is giving everyone the equal opportunity for training, education, etc.. This for preparation to travel along the route EACH PERSON may then choose to take to reach whatever goal each person seeks to achieve. Knowing that some will do better, some will do worse, and some will break even. It all depends on one's will to achieve.
We have achieved. There is no clearer example than holding the two highest offices in American politics: President and Vice President (not to mention all the other offices, elected and appointed). That could NEVER be accomplished in any society steeped in "systemic racism."
CRT isnt history. Hannah Jones in response to criticism from historians regarding her 1619 project said it is not history, but instead an "origin story". Not "the origin story but an origin story". Stories about the past are just one of the preferred tools of CRT to "shape the narrative". Myths, parables and stories.This aspect of American history is not something that the government or anyone else has any business censoring. Children should be taught the realities of history, not a sanitized version meant to hide the worst aspects of it and make the history of white American culture look better than it was.
I challenge you to do the impossible, namely point out which part of CRT qualifies as anti white propaganda. OK, go ahead, we are all waiting to be amazed!maybe because it is anti white propoganda?
Classism is NOT racism, it is economic stratification. There are many Black Americans, Asian Americans, and even some Native Americans who belong to the highest classes of wealth.
Most of those scions of wealth accept you if you have the money; if you don't then they don't.
You just supported my refutation above of your earlier statement. That argues against systemic racism, because in systemic racism it does not matter how much money you have, the dominant racial group be they rich OR poor will hold you in low esteem.
Wrong. In a racist society it does not matter one's land of origin. Once one joins a racist state, one's race becomes the deciding factor in how one is treated. PERIOD.
What has this to do with anything? In a truly racist society mere wealth has little effect, as those with more or equal will ostracize you, and those with less will still despise you while taking your money.
What? I'm not sure I understand this "point." IMO when it comes to poverty, much has to do with the "Welfare State" system which "rewards" unmarried women with children and an absent male provider. I am well aware of how this system is "played" having an Aunt with three sons who played it for all it was worth. Had NOTHING to do with "racism" and everything to do with maintaining a stream of "easy money" while having "something-something" of unreported income on the side.
Horrifying! Can you provide something to substantiate the claim that you made with such certainty?It absolutely does. It also promotes the absurd and offensive notion that if one is white, they are naturally inclined to be a racist and White supremacist.
It's funny - so many Truths about CRT, so few citations. I won't make any claims about CRT, because I have no idea what it describes and I don't care to find out. Is it so much to ask that others who do care, actually do some reading of the source literature and base their criticisms on it? I mean, shouldn't that be a basic requirement to debating something in good faith?Well... You kinda shouldn't.
"Critical Race Theory" is a specific framework for examining how racism influenced American law. It's basically only taught in law schools.
People on the right are losing their minds over "CRT," but they don't have a clue what it is, what it means, or where it's taught. This is why they frequently confuse Critical Race Theory with "culturally responseful teaching," which basically trains teachers how to work with students with different cultural backgrounds.
What really seems to have happened is that right-wing racists realized that Americans are understanding and accepting that racism is still a problem in America, which manifested in (among other things) lots of whites joining blacks in protests against police brutality last year. Thus, they found a conveniently scary-sounding scapegoat, and started a witch hunt against teaching kids about the history of racism in America.
I for one suspect that this is going to backfire on them, because now you have lots of people looking into CRT (the real thing), and talking about and acknowledging another form of structural racism.
Why on earth would I want to "study" CRT? For what reason?It's easy to see where you get your views from. Have you ever studied CRT? Do you know when it emerged, what its precedents were, who authored it, why it was created? I would be comfortable waging a large sum that as of this moment you have done none of the above, yet you craft arguments out of ignorance, vomiting Fox talking points as if they were established fact, having no knowledge of your own.
How could anyone doubt 'TheKimHammerShow.com'? Still, I'm sure you have verified all the above is actually in the CRT documents, just in case, right?Why on earth would I want to "study" CRT? For what reason?
I have read the five tenets of CRT and feel that, because I am a non-racist white American, I don't need someone telling me that my skin color makes me a racist and that all blacks are victims of racism in this country.
Five Basic False Principles of Critical Race Theory
July 20, 2021
The goal of critical race theory (“CRT”) is to create hate that uncontrollably cascades throughout diverse societies to make all races hate each other. The five basic false principles of CRT are:
CRT promotes victimhood and suppresses a specific race because one race proclaims themselves “oppressed” (the victim) while accusing another race of being the “oppressor” (the villain). The objective is to push society to hate the oppressor villain’s race and rally behind the proclaimed victim’s race.
- Regardless of race, you are born a racist, and you will always be a racist towards all other races.
- The content of your character is irrelevant, because you will always be a racist. Any effort to prove you’re not a racist only magnifies your racist nature towards all other races.
- Your race is automatically condemned by all other races, because all the other races are also racists.
- All sins — past and present — of your race are unforgivable, but all sins of all the other races are completely ignored.
- Because we are all racists, we are all condemned and no one is redeemable.
Five Basic False Principles of Critical Race Theory | The Kim Hammer Show
Five basic false principles of critical race theorythekimhammershow.com
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